Roomette v Bedroom demand/profit

[sldispatcher]

Taking into account that seasonal and route differences are obvious and no need to light up the blow torches, there has to be some general feeling out there whether demand is higher for Roomettes or Bedrooms. With that in mind, I wonder which of the two generates more "profit" (or "less loss" depending on who you talk to)?

Could the Roomette be taken care of in a slumber coach sort of 1 x 2 layout and devote entire car lengths to the larger bedrooms? Or are the bedrooms a drag on revenue because unmet roomette demand is left sitting trackside?

I hope I framed the question properly.

 

[neroden]

You can fit two roomettes into the space of one bedroom, roughly speaking. So you have a good balance when (a) you are more-or-less filling the trains, and (b) the bedroom is selling for twice as much as the roomette. Whether this is happening on particular trains, or whether they are out of whack one way or the other, is a big-data question and I don't have the data.

Anecdotal evidence from looking at Amtrak.com at various times tells me that sometimes a bedroom costs more than two roomettes, sometimes it costs less than one roomette, but usually it costs somewhere in between. This indicates that the roomettes are *typically* more profitable. But that's just typically.

However, there are passengers who won't take roomettes and will take bedrooms. So if there are already enough roomettes to meet demand -- if extra roomettes would mean empty roomettes or lowering the price -- then the bedrooms are better to have than additional roomettes.

This is a complex, situation-specific analysis. If sleeper demand were really high, it would make sense to have all-bedroom cars and all-roomette cars, and you could assign (say) three roomette cars and one bedroom car to a given train, but sleeper demand has rarely if ever been that high. So you have to pick a ratio and build your car with that ratio. Modern cars also require one handicapped room each, which pretty much has to be the larger sort.

That said, the Auto Train has a few "all-bedroom" Superliners (actually 4 / 10 / 1 / 1) because it was expected to have more bedroom demand and less roomette demand than normal. And the transition sleepers are all-roomette. So it is possible to do some fine adjustment, if you really know your demand pattern.

In general, the Viewliner II with the 10 / 2 / 1 ratio of revenue rooms probably has too few bedrooms (and they tend to run *very* pricey). However, the Superliner with a 13 / 5 / 1 /1 ratio probably has too few roomettes. The the transition sleepers (all-roomette) probably makes up for it to some extent. If you tried to replace two roomettes with one bedroom in a Viewliner II you'd likely end up with too many bedrooms.

 

[sldispatcher]

So in a perfect world, would it be wiser to fix the demand issue on the Bedrooms and generate higher yield (also feeding fewer people/incurring less per person costs) or decide "this is where we are" and just leave it as is?

 

[PVD]

Which is why we don't live in a perfect world. The practice is called "yield management" but it gets amazingly complicated because of all the factors that enter into into the math. What equipment is available, what crews are available/required, if I have more units available will the ability to satisfy demand lower prices which may not make me more money, how does demand change seasonally, and so on and so forth. And the answers aren't static- take JetBlue A-320 aircraft, delivered with 156 one class seats. Changed to 150 to remove one flight attendant, changed a few rows to premium priced extra leg room, now are going to 162 seats, which will bring back the 4th FA, but if I consistently sell those seats it makes me more money. (I hope)

 

[sldispatcher]

I'm well aware of yield management and the generalities of how it works and that we don't live in a perfect world.

The difference is that the airline, for the most part, is still selling a seat yet can have a rather large difference of pricing power and allocation over that seat.

With Amtrak, we do see some dynamic pricing with the changing charges of roomettes and bedrooms based on occupancy rates, demand. The airline sells those extra leg room seats for the same price as the regular coach seat...they just don't assign the seat until check in. That's why some folks get extra leg room that never pay for it. It does help to keep the plane full.

The more general question that I obviously should have asked more directly is the following: Is it time to look at the sleeper accommodations (hard product and soft product) and say aim lower or higher in regards to yield management/profitability/etc?

 

[PVD]

Depends on the airline, some will let the seat go empty so as not to devalue the premium, some won't More and more airlines are going to seat assignment at check in, some offer seat selection for a fee, or as United is now shifting to, a higher fare category.

The second part of the post is where the challenge will really lie, and answers it may be coming soon, when 25 additional sleepers and 10 bag dorms (minus maint req and protects) are in service on the single level trains. A new set of questions arises: example- should I put a bag dorm on a train like the LSL free up maybe 8 roomettes for sale without adding crew, would one and a half bags be enough, would I be better off with a full car so I get 4 more roomettes plus 2 bedrooms plus another H, but need another crewmember? would the added availability lower overall pricing so that it isn't worth it, and at what point does this occur. Dammed if I know.

 

[Train2104]

You can fit two roomettes into the space of one bedroom, roughly speaking. So you have a good balance when (a) you are more-or-less filling the trains, and (b) the bedroom is selling for twice as much as the roomette. Whether this is happening on particular trains, or whether they are out of whack one way or the other, is a big-data question and I don't have the data.

Hmm. This could make for a really nice analytical problem if Amsnag stored the data as users requested it. I'm sure that dataset would be huge.

 

[Maglev]

It is my understanding that one-third of the Viewliner bedrooms are held for handicapped persons until two weeks before departure. This has a huge impact on bedroom supply and demand.

 

[PVD]

It is the H room on both SL and VL that fall under that guideline. If they are not booked they become available as bedrooms to anyone at the 2 week mark. You just notice it more on a VL because there are only 2 regular bedrooms instead of 5. Also, a VL has no family bedroom like a SL would

 

[west point]

To even more complicate the equation is the difference in various routes. Then add to it seasonal demand. Without enough extra rolling stock to meet these demands we cannot tell what will work. For example 6 sleepers on one route and 2 on another + Partial route needs 8 other part need 1. It gets complicated beyond any of our speculations. Just too many variables.

Then add in necessity to dead head equipment one way to meet full demand other way.

 

[sldispatcher]

The neat thing is that it is all math and equations and a little guessing. As Train2104 said, would be interesting to know. The missing part is knowing how many people search for an accomodation and are NOT ABLE TO FIND ANY AVAILABLE. That is the unmet demand. And realizing that I am not politically aligned the same as so many of the flamethrowers on this board, I find it disheartening that the simple math that a primary method of reducing costs on the current system are by doing the simplest thing....adding more cars...is completely missed by the government entities over the last 16 plus years of Amtrak's existence. It's not enough to replace, we need to grow!

I think the Superliners may need some extra TLC, but they could soldier on for a while by using them as extra capacity on given routes while new deliveries come along.

I would love to get to a point where new long distance equipment is delivered and those existing Superliners are shifted over to other parts of the network. For instance, would it not be nice if the CZ had 4 full time sleepers and a dedicated lounge car just for sleeping car class...and let coach passengers have their own?

Anyway, that is birdwalking.

Back to the point at hand, I am a proponent of having fewer roomettes and more bedrooms on the western Long Distance trains. Or all bedrooms even.

Were the Autotrain sleepers that are all deluxe bedroom special built or conversions?

 

[DevalDragon]

There were 6 Deluxe Sleepers (32500 series) built for the Auto Train in 1995. They were delivered new from Bombardier and all 6 are in service.