Restroom Out of Service

[Ordorous]

Hi All,

I took the Cap Ltd, riding coach, last week, DC to Chicago.

About 2 hours into the trip an announcement was made that the restrooms in our car were out of service and to use the restrooms in the car behind ours.

Needless to say people kept using the restrooms and the smell became very bad.

Questions - first off, is there a way to lock these down so that they are not used? Second, can the waste be "dumped" at a station somewhere in route? Or, can another coach car be substituted in route?

Having a seat next to the stairway I caught the odor full blast and more, as the train was late due to the weather.

I can understand things breaking or cars having problems but to have to "live with it" is not an answer.

Also, what are the responsibilities/duties of the car attendant during the trip? After the initial boarding I did not see the car attendant until about 2 hours before Chicago when she collected pillows. Seems to me they should do more - like empty the trash, "patrol" the restrooms and maybe help folks with their baggage, etc.

Thanks

 

[haolerider]

Hi All,

I took the Cap Ltd, riding coach, last week, DC to Chicago.

About 2 hours into the trip an announcement was made that the restrooms in our car were out of service and to use the restrooms in the car behind ours.

Needless to say people kept using the restrooms and the smell became very bad.

Questions - first off, is there a way to lock these down so that they are not used? Second, can the waste be "dumped" at a station somewhere in route? Or, can another coach car be substituted in route?

Having a seat next to the stairway I caught the odor full blast and more, as the train was late due to the weather.

I can understand things breaking or cars having problems but to have to "live with it" is not an answer.

Also, what are the responsibilities/duties of the car attendant during the trip? After the initial boarding I did not see the car attendant until about 2 hours before Chicago when she collected pillows. Seems to me they should do more - like empty the trash, "patrol" the restrooms and maybe help folks with their baggage, etc.

Thanks

Yes, there is a way to lock the restrooms and that should have been done. Yes, the coach attendant should be patroling the restrooms and keeping the car clean and helping passengers with bags. No, there is very little oppportunity to "dump" the restrooms enroute or to replace a car, since extra equipment is not sitting waiting to be used. Amtrak is strapped for any kind of equipment - anywhere!

Sorry you had a bad experience, but you also need to write or call Customer Relations and give them the details on your trip.

 

[JayPea]

That same thing happened to me on the Empire Builder last week. In our case, the car attendant did lock the doors so that no one could use them. And he went out of his way to apologize up and down for the problem. He was visible throughout the trip. I'm sorry to hear your car attendant didn't handle the problem, as it sounds, the way it should have been. Not much any attendant can do about balky toilets but they can see to it the problem is kept to a minimun.

 

[rrdude]

That same thing happened to me on the Empire Builder last week. In our case, the car attendant did lock the doors so that no one could use them. And he went out of his way to apologize up and down for the problem. He was visible throughout the trip. I'm sorry to hear your car attendant didn't handle the problem, as it sounds, the way it should have been. Not much any attendant can do about balky toilets but they can see to it the problem is kept to a minimun.

Ha! Another good reason for Duct Tape! Although it would not have helped this poster, several times I have used my duct tape and Sharpie pen to make impromptu "out of order" or "dining car other way" signs... Shouldn't have to, just trying to improve the ride for first-timers, or other non-fans.....(An old coach key comes in handy too....... :lol: )

 

[caravanman]

I find putting signs up to the sightseeing and dining car pointing the WRONG way gives me a good head start in the rush...

Ed

 

[Bob Dylan]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

I can understand things breaking or cars having problems but to have to "live with it" is not an answer.

I really think the answer just has to be "live with it".

There are no en-route repairs for just about anything I can think of, including a locomotive failure. There are no technicians to do repairs, nor parts stocked at each station.

Possibly, your only real option, was to change your seat to another car.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

About 2 hours into the trip an announcement was made that the restrooms in our car were out of service and to use the restrooms in the car behind ours. Needless to say people kept using the restrooms and the smell became very bad.

The way Amtrak handles these sorts of repairs is to send you a voucher good for future travel on another broken train. If you would be willing to call them at 800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245) and clearly state your desire to have working restrooms on a long distance train then they should be willing to compensate you with more of the same. Sound good? If not, refuse the voucher but insist that you want the car attendant written up for failing in his or her duties.

Questions - first off, is there a way to lock these down so that they are not used? Second, can the waste be "dumped" at a station somewhere in route? Or, can another coach car be substituted in route?

I know how to lock a commercial aircraft bathroom from the outside, but not a train bathroom. Next time I'm on the train I'll take a look to see if it's similar. If it is I'll be happy to post the information so that responsible passengers can do the job that irresponsible car attendants refuse to do. It's time to take matters into our own hands and stop waiting for Amtrak to fix itself. They won't, they can't and they apparently don't even realize anything is wrong in the first place.

I can understand things breaking or cars having problems but to have to "live with it" is not an answer.

I agree. You would hope we could all agree that this is a simple and obvious expectation.

Also, what are the responsibilities/duties of the car attendant during the trip? After the initial boarding I did not see the car attendant until about 2 hours before Chicago when she collected pillows. Seems to me they should do more - like empty the trash, "patrol" the restrooms and maybe help folks with their baggage, etc. Thanks

Again, this is a clear and reasonable expectation. And here's the Apologists Unlimited response...

I really think the answer just has to be "live with it".

Is there NOTHING we can expect of Amtrak or anything you would NOT apologize for?

 

[AlanB]

Also, what are the responsibilities/duties of the car attendant during the trip? After the initial boarding I did not see the car attendant until about 2 hours before Chicago when she collected pillows. Seems to me they should do more - like empty the trash, "patrol" the restrooms and maybe help folks with their baggage, etc. Thanks

Again, this is a clear and reasonable expectation. And here's the Apologists Unlimited response...

I really think the answer just has to be "live with it".

Is there NOTHING we can expect of Amtrak or anything you would NOT apologize for?

Nice of you to take things out of context.

And you'll note that everyone else who did comment on the missing attendant did indeed say that the attendant should have been there and a few told the OP to report his absence. I get that you're unhappy with many things regarding Amtrak, but please let's not get crazy here and start putting words into other people's mouths that they didn't say. While the attendant should have locked the restrooms, once the damage was done, there was nothing left to do but live with it. That's what Cho Cho Charlie was saying. At no time did he ever say that the OP would need "to live with a missing attendant."

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Nice of you to take things out of context...let's not get crazy here and start putting words into other people's mouths that they didn't say.

Alan, if I was blatantly misrepresenting the conclusion then you'd have a point. Unfortunately the conclusion was "just live with it" followed by some reasons for why nothing can be done to address the source of the issue. You also claim I put words in someone's mouth, so please tell me which specific words did I put in Charlie's mouth?

While the attendant should have locked the restrooms, once the damage was done, there was nothing let to do but live with it.

Which only further solidifies my contention that the apologists have no answers beyond asking for a voucher that will allow the aggrieved to experience the exact same mess they're fed up with all over again. It's just a cycle of one disappointment after another after another.

At no time did he ever say that the OP would need "to live with a missing attendant."

That quote doesn't appear in either my post or Charlie's post, which can only mean it's a perfect example of someone putting words in my mouth. Thanks for the demonstration, but I don't see how this helps anyone. As I said, I'll investigate how to lock the restroom from the outside on my next trip and if I can figure it out I'll post it here. Seems like this is the best possible solution for the moment.

 

[Ryan]

At no time did he ever say that the OP would need "to live with a missing attendant."

That quote doesn't appear in either my post or Charlie's post, which can only mean it's a perfect example of someone putting words in my mouth. Thanks for the demonstration, but I don't see how this helps anyone. As I said, I'll investigate how to lock the restroom from the outside on my next trip and if I can figure it out I'll post it here. Seems like this is the best possible solution for the moment.

Uh, yeah - it sure did. Here, let me refresh your memory:

Also, what are the responsibilities/duties of the car attendant during the trip? After the initial boarding I did not see the car attendant until about 2 hours before Chicago when she collected pillows. Seems to me they should do more - like empty the trash, "patrol" the restrooms and maybe help folks with their baggage, etc. Thanks

Again, this is a clear and reasonable expectation. And here's the Apologists Unlimited response...

I really think the answer just has to be "live with it".

Clearly, you're taking Charlie's "Live with it" with regards to breakdowns en route and applying it to the phantom attendant, which he never intended.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

After looking at it again I can see what you're saying due to how I ordered my post. However I really don't agree that there is a discrepancy there. Nowhere in Charlie's post does he say the missing attendant is unacceptable or that it can be resolved. He doesn't seem to be making any distinction between the attendant and the hardware at all when I read it. He just says to live with it. There's also a suggestion about maybe moving to another car but I'm not sure how that's any different than just living with it and it's not even clear that was an option for the OP. The crux of the problem remains. Amtrak has no solution at this time. Amtrak Unlimited has no solution at this time. However, I think we might be able to come up with a solution if we post how to lock the restrooms. I admit that won't solve everything, but at least it will give folks a chance to take their trip experience into their own hands and avoid a disgusting ride next time they take Amtrak and things start going downhill.

 

[AlanB]

Nice of you to take things out of context...let's not get crazy here and start putting words into other people's mouths that they didn't say.

Alan, if I was blatantly misrepresenting the conclusion then you'd have a point. Unfortunately the conclusion was "just live with it" followed by some reasons for why nothing can be done to address the source of the issue. You also claim I put words in someone's mouth, so please tell me which specific words did I put in Charlie's mouth?

Charlie's post mentions only that there is no way to fix the restrooms while enroute, that there are no parts available along the way and no technicians along the way. Clearly Charlie is only making his bold statement about "living with it" to the broken restrooms, and perhaps the smell.

At no time does he discuss the attendant.

So attributing his quote to the attendant is putting words in his mouth.

 

[Guest]

Which only further solidifies my contention that the apologists have no answers beyond asking for a voucher that will allow the aggrieved to experience the exact same mess they're fed up with all over again. It's just a cycle of one disappointment after another after another.

I have literally done just that. A few years back I had problem after problem and kept calling up and getting voucher after voucher. At least I got a good bit of free transportation out of it, but yeah that is no way to run a railroad as they say.

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak Unlimited has no solution at this time. However, I think we might be able to come up with a solution if we post how to lock the restrooms. I admit that won't solve everything, but at least it will give folks a chance to take their trip experience into their own hands and avoid a disgusting ride next time they take Amtrak and things start going downhill.

Here's a simple solution from Amtrak unlimited. Find another attendant, or a conductor and have them lock the restrooms. It's that simple. If the attendant for that car won't do his job, report him. These days most people can even do that while right on the train. Or if you prefer, wait until after the ride is over. But either way, if that attendant won't do his job, ask a conductor. Every crew person on the train has the needed key.

 

[Guest]

Alan is correct, ask the conductor when in doubt! I would suggest that it is not a good idea to be locking doors and trying to field engineer problems that arise on a train except in your own roomette! Getting put off the train in Nowhereville is not a good thing and being met by big guys with handcuffs and guns is even worse! Capice!

 

[MikefromCrete]

I don't think taking matters into your own hands, i.e., finding someway to lock the door yourself, is a good, or even legal idea. Find the conductor, tell him the problem and hopefully he'll resolve it. Write a letter of complaint about the missing attendant, hopefully he will face some consequences.

As for your complaint that we're all a bunch of Amtrak apologists here, what you do suggest we do? There certainly have been enough complaints about bad service on this board. Should we stage some sort of demonstration on board when faced with these problems? At a station stop, should the passengers run out in front of the train and block it from moving? I think the posters gave some pretty good ideas of how to register your complaints.

Any way, I would not go around locking doors on a train. You're not a crew member.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Charlie's post mentions only that there is no way to fix the restrooms while enroute, that there are no parts available along the way and no technicians along the way. Clearly Charlie is only making his bold statement about "living with it" to the broken restrooms, and perhaps the smell.

At no time does he discuss the attendant.

So attributing his quote to the attendant is putting words in his mouth.

Yep. Thanks!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I don't think taking matters into your own hands, i.e., finding someway to lock the door yourself, is a good, or even legal idea.

While I agree that serious legal implications should always be considered I note that they are only mentioned with regard to the passenger attempting to resolve the situation. Are there no legal concerns over Amtrak's continued inability to maintain proper sanitation levels for their customers? Maybe we're going about this all wrong with vouchers and duct tape. Maybe the regulators (STB, FRA, etc) need some phone calls and letters instead. Even if Amtrak needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into the twenty-first century we might as well get it over with.

Should we stage some sort of demonstration on board when faced with these problems? At a station stop, should the passengers run out in front of the train and block it from moving?

Nothing I've said has come close to any of this. You may not agree with my suggestions, but they're not nearly as reactionary as you're trying to make them sound.

I think the posters gave some pretty good ideas of how to register your complaints.

I think they've given the same basic answer over and over again. Failure leads to a voucher, which leads to another failure and another voucher and on and on. I was simply wondering if we could cut-out the middleman and address some of these issues ourselves. If we can't then maybe it's a lost cause. You don't see me worrying about what United or Delta or American Airlines are doing because I honestly couldn't care less if they survive or die or who replaces them. But Amtrak is in a special position. They are not just our only nationwide passenger rail network, they're also a massive immovable blockage that prevents any other entity from taking their place. I can understand why people would choose to defend Amtrak rather than admitting they're an outright failure. I can understand why people would be unwilling to say or do anything that might risk losing what little we still have. And yet if Amtrak can't be fixed then maybe it's time to push it out of the way and give something else a chance to succeed. At least that's my view anyway.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Write a letter of complaint about the missing attendant, hopefully he will face some consequences.

I am not sure, from what has been given, that the attendant was truly missing. Though rare, I thought sometimes an attendant might have to cover more than one car. Or there might have been another problem, worse than the bathroom, that the attendant needed to be more involved with. I just don't know.

 

[Guest]

I value your right to express your opinion but must differ that Amtrak has been a Failure! :excl: It has been a survivor and given the almost pitiful resources and political meddling that has gone on for almost 40 years, all things considered, theyve pretty damn good! Of course most of your, and our also, concerns are due to lack of funding,equipment older than most of the people in this country and frankly lack of leadership by Amtrak management! Like all companies there has been lots of hairbrained schemes, neglect, idiots promoted over their competence level and outright fraud in some instances! In closing let me say that most of us are glad that Amtrak exists,and ask you to consider that no-one could run passenger rail for a profit, or make it perfect! I for one dont want to pay VIA prices, and see only limited service on the LD trains, so lets do what we can to help Amtrak survive,improve and even surprise us!!

 

[rrdude]

In closing let me say that most of us are glad that Amtrak exists,and ask you to consider that no-one could run passenger rail for a profit, or make it perfect! I for one dont want to pay VIA prices, and see only limited service on the LD trains, so lets do what we can to help Amtrak survive,improve and even surprise us!!

I couldn't agree with your more! That's why after years and years of endless support and promotion of Amtrak, working for Amtrak, testifying before Congress, at one time being active in TexArp, and MARP, long time member of NARP, I'm done apologizing.

My "regular friends" all call me a rail nerd, Hell I am, I love trains. But call a Spade a Spade I say.

Amtrak must get better, or be replaced. Lord knows we don't want what happened in Mexico to happen in the USA, but Via Rail looks a lot better (I hate the cutbacks too) than Amtrak does from a LD state. Pay more to ride in sleepers on Amtrak? Hell yes I would, I'd be HAPPY to. IF the amenities, service, and food were commensurate.

Ahhhhhhhhh...........(frustrated)

 

[Ispolkom]

Oh, one thing I'm sure of is that if you get rid of Amtrak, you get rid of long-distance rail in the United States. And then I'd have to start driving to Minot, which would be intolerable.

I have to say that given the little I pay for sleepers (I generally travel on AGR awards) I really have nothing to complain about. I was surprised that we received any compensation for our toilet problem on the California Zephyr, considering that we were spending only 20k points to travel 3800 miles. I'm sure I'd have a different opinion if I were paying cash, especially, heaven forfend, high-bucket prices, for long-distance travel.

But the way I see it:

a) Amtrak's the only game in town,

b) Problems with equipment are not going to improve until Amtrak receives serious capital improvement funds (which seems increasingly unlikely).

As long as Amtrak meets my modest needs and continues to allow me to use AGR, I'm content. Sure I'd like more trains, better equipment, and a better selection of regional beers in the lounge car. I'd also like to bicycle like Lance Armstrong.

 

[Eric S]

Write a letter of complaint about the missing attendant, hopefully he will face some consequences.

I am not sure, from what has been given, that the attendant was truly missing. Though rare, I thought sometimes an attendant might have to cover more than one car. Or there might have been another problem, worse than the bathroom, that the attendant needed to be more involved with. I just don't know.

Don't car attendants typically cover more than one car? I didn't think each coach had its own attendant.

 

[Big Iron]

I don't think taking matters into your own hands, i.e., finding someway to lock the door yourself, is a good, or even legal idea. Find the conductor, tell him the problem and hopefully he'll resolve it. Write a letter of complaint about the missing attendant, hopefully he will face some consequences.

As for your complaint that we're all a bunch of Amtrak apologists here, what you do suggest we do? There certainly have been enough complaints about bad service on this board. Should we stage some sort of demonstration on board when faced with these problems? At a station stop, should the passengers run out in front of the train and block it from moving? I think the posters gave some pretty good ideas of how to register your complaints.

Any way, I would not go around locking doors on a train. You're not a crew member.

Are we Amtrak Apologists or Amtrak Realists? My feeling is that the seasoned riders who post here do a good job of realistically positioning excpectations for new riders so they have a better idea of what to expect and perhaps have a more enjoyable trip as a result......not expecting swan shaped towels on their beds, mints on pillows, 5 star food in the diner, etc.