Private car avoidance

[VentureForth]

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[RichardWSnow]

Thank you for the helpful responses.

I can't call Amtrak up and ask if John Madden is riding the CZ next Tuesday.

No but apparently the DEA could tell you. I didn't see the OP asking for the car identification or passenger list. He's simply asking if there's a way to ask Amtrak for a date that doesn't have any private cars scheduled. Or at least that's how I read it. Seems like something that Amtrak could provide if it wanted to without giving up personal information on any of the passengers. Besides, if you've been reading the news recently it doesn't sound like Amtrak considers personal privacy to be something they care about in the least.

Yes, I was only asking for whether or not private cars are scheduled. What cars they are and who are on them does not concern me.

Sounds like a lot of trouble to avoid a short delay. One hour on a long distance traln? That's nothing.

If one is running 3 hours late and have an upcoming connection with a 3 1/2 hour window, the additional one hour delay becomes very significant.

Maybe you can take a look at the public trip schedule on larail.com and other similar sites and keep an eye on the upcoming trips they are selling. The date and what train they are attaching to are pretty open. Since the adhoc ones aren't published its not 100% accurate but will at least give you an idea of the days when you know it will be attached.

Thanks for this suggestion. I will check those sort of sites.

Sounds like a lot of trouble to avoid a short delay. One hour on a long distance traln? That's nothing.

I don't think attaching PVs should cost an hour. What does it take? Pull the train forwards, throw a switch, push the train back, connect the air hoses and things, do a check, and then pull out.

If you're well organized, that should be doable in under 10 minutes.

In Denver there were three operations: (1) detach private cars to shorten the train to fit the platform. (2) Move to the correct platform to load/unload passengers. (3) re-attach the private cars. 1 and 3 took a total of over 1 hour to accomplish. I don't know if this is typical or not.

Richard Snow

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Maybe I'm missing something but I'm honestly kind of surprised that a brand new (redeveloped) terminal is still too short to serve the regular consist plus a few PV cars. Did nobody consider that Amtrak hauls extra cars on a regular basis or that maybe they might receive additional mainline rolling stock in the future? Seems kind of silly to be experiencing problems like this from day one.

 

[crescent2]

My thought, too, DA. Was there not enough available space or something?

 

[neroden]

Not if the platform isn't long enough.

And the new platform used by Amtrak at Denver is not long enough.

I think it's long enough to hold a private car, maybe two, in addition to the regular consist. Certainly not long enough for *four*.

Still, the switching should still be pretty quick... except that all the switches are manual at the moment, which probably slows things down quite a bit.

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Regarding the platform length, there's one fundamental problem involved. The problem is the bridge over 20th Street. This area is wide enough for 5 tracks and 0 platforms. 2 tracks == NW Rail & Gold Line; 2 tracks == East Rail & North Metro Rail; 1 track in the middle == Amtrak.

Just as soon as the right-of-way widens out to the southwest of there, the Amtrak track splits into 2 (one for regular Amtrak use, one mostly for storing PVs), and pretty quickly after that, the platforms start. The platforms extend from there. They probably should extend further. They can't go past 16th St. But they could have run them a couple more carlengths towards 16th St. This could actually be fixed in future just by digging out some concrete and extending the tracks; it's just a concrete pad there. This mistake was made largely due to the desire to put development adjacent to 16th St. (a big, big mistake, they'll have to demolish it eventually, but oh well).

Doing that would still only gain you about 2 carlengths, though. Probably still not long enough to hold four private cars.

 

[neroden]

In Denver there were three operations: (1) detach private cars to shorten the train to fit the platform. (2) Move to the correct platform to load/unload passengers. (3) re-attach the private cars. 1 and 3 took a total of over 1 hour to accomplish. I don't know if this is typical or not.

It absolutely should not take that long; half an hour at most. I suspect the manually thrown switches are slowing things down. Hopefully that will change in 2016 when the signalling system for Denver Union Station is installed.

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

I was also on this CZ. The initial "parking" of the four private cars required TWO operations--one to detach the single private car at the end from the three other private cars continuing on with the CZ from Denver and second to detach the three remaining cars. After this the train had to go all the way out on the Y and back up on separate track for the station stop. Also it should be noted that the CZ consist was at its season longest consist including three sleepers plus the crew transitional sleeper that made the trip all the way from Chicago to Emeryville. Technically, we added 1 hour 45 minutes to our delay in Denver.

Nevertheless, our sleeper car attendant Johnny was very good and attentive and I had excellent service in the dining car. And I got to experience the Amstew for my first time. The beef stew over rice was actually one of my favorite meals. Richard(who started this topic) was one of the very nice traveling companions I met while on that run of the CZ. Actually, he was in roomette 7 across the hall from me in roomette 8 in sleeper 0531.

 

[neroden]

2 locomotives, 10 standard cars, 4 private cars. Never going to fit in one platform even if they extended it all the way to 16th St.

Still, cutting two consists of cars shouldn't take that long. I don't think you need to do a brake test every time you reverse if you're just doing yardwork (correct me if I'm wrong). 10 minutes to back in, 5 minutes to cut, 5 minutes to cut again, 10 to go forward, 10 to go back the last time, you're only up to 40 minutes coming in. And I'm being pessimistic about the moving speeds there, as it shouldn't take 10 minutes to make each move. Maybe the crew just wasn't experienced with this particular yard work?

 

[railiner]

I can't remember just how long the platform on former Track One at DUT was, but the pre-Superliner SFZ in the summer would stretch around 16 cars. The locomotive would rest under the 20th Street Viaduct, blasting it with steam from the generator....the last car would foul the Uncle Sam Spur....I believe Track Two had a longer platform on that end, stretching under the 16th Street Viaduct. The service platform extended almost to 15th Street,adjacent to the Post Office Terminal Annex....

 

[jis]

Couple of days back the LSL had 5 PVs and 4 Coaches in the NY section making for a nice long train. 17 car train plus 2 P42s! 76 axles.

 

[Palmland]

You would think Amtrak would have required the 'new' station to have sufficient trackage to accommodate longer trains that include PV's.

 

[cirdan]

You would think Amtrak would have required the 'new' station to have sufficient trackage to accommodate longer trains that include PV's.

Sounds a bit like the new Miami station. I wonder how long until we hear similar complaints from there.

 

[jis]

Fortunately Miami is a terminal station, so that can take all the time they want to futz around on arrivals. Of course I am sure they will manage to delay departures by as much time as possible and the arrive out of slot at CSX and then lose more time. Par for the course that, unfortunately. They manage to do that even without any PVs in Albany regularly.

 

[neroden]

I can't remember just how long the platform on former Track One at DUT was, but the pre-Superliner SFZ in the summer would stretch around 16 cars. The locomotive would rest under the 20th Street Viaduct

This is the key change here; 20th St Viaduct was demolished and 20th Street is now mostly on an underpass. I think this has narrowed the station throat significantly. This is, as I said earlier, the limiting factor which they were working around. The street work done by the City of Denver in past years limited their options.

 

[sechs]

While there should be some inevitable delay in cutting and adding cars at Denver, it could probably be made faster. I am told that dispatcher control of the switches is not in place yet (though I have read that it should be in place when the commuter rail is opened in 2016); this may allow faster moves.

Even before all of this station work, getting the Zephyr in and out of Union Station was a bit of a ballet, due to the need to wye the train, either coming or going. I get the feeling that things are now actually worse.

 

[Guest]

On a recent trip on the CZ (5/3) from Chicago to Emeryville there were 3 private cars at the rear of the train. In Denver this caused over an hour of additional delay, as at least one of the private cars had to be uncoupled and left on a separate track (and after passenger loading, recoupled). I was told this was because, with the 3 cars and the fact that trains must back into the Denver station, the train was so long the engine would not have been in a position in which it could be refueled.

So, if there was a 2 hour delay due to three Amtrak dead-head (is that the correct term?) cars, it would have been perfectly OK?

I think the root of the problem is having just three additional cars on the consist, not necessarily what those cars are, true?

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

On a recent trip on the CZ (5/3) from Chicago to Emeryville there were 3 private cars at the rear of the train. In Denver this caused over an hour of additional delay, as at least one of the private cars had to be uncoupled and left on a separate track (and after passenger loading, recoupled). I was told this was because, with the 3 cars and the fact that trains must back into the Denver station, the train was so long the engine would not have been in a position in which it could be refueled.

So, if there was a 2 hour delay due to three Amtrak dead-head (is that the correct term?) cars, it would have been perfectly OK?

I think the root of the problem is having just three additional cars on the consist, not necessarily what those cars are, true?

Actually, there were 4 private cars from Chicago to Denver. All had passengers . One private car was dropped off in Denver. Three private cars with a tour group continued on to Emeryville. The tour group passengers departed in Sacramento while the three cars continued on to Emeryville.