Potential BART strike effect on Capitol Corridor service?

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Texan Eagle, it sounds like Carmageddon in LA the past few years, when there were two separate weekends (both during summer) where the 405 through Sepulveda Pass was entirely shut down. The news agencies spread it all around fearing the absolute worst, and when it came time, the roads were the emptiest in years. I took the train that weekend to Ventura with my family, and boy was it full! Either way, I'm glad your commute was still fine though!
 
We are all hoping the holiday week helped. The buses were packed this morning, however the passengers tried to remain patient (thankfully). People usually take note of the warnings, however once lighter traffic conditions are observed some decide to change modes to driving on day 2. Even for those who stayed home, the strike had some impact. Anyone who thought about or changed something they normally do in their routine was affected. They may have not spent time sitting in traffic but they made a change to their daily life as a result of the labor action.

I don't go into work until the afternoon so we will see how it goes...
 
Does BART offer monthly passes? If so, will people be reimbursed for the time period they can't use BART?
 
BART operates under the pay-as-you-go model. The fares are based on distance travelled (along with other premiums and surchages) and are deducted when you exit the fare gate at your destination station.

They do have discount passes for children, seniors, students, and the disabled, as well as high value discount tickets. With all those you still pay a fare based on actual travel with the price of the initial ticket purchased being discounted (i.e. a $24 costs $8).

Tickets sold on board Capitol Corridor for BART are priced at $8 but have $10 worth of BART value (20% discount). But tickets do not expire so in theory there is no adverse direct cost lost on ones BART ticket by not using BART on a given day.
 
Thanks for the info! We're moving to the Bay area next summer, so I was just curious. The CTA has monthly passes (unlimited rides on buses and trains).

Now that you mention it, I do remember watching a video where they show how to check in/out at the various stops. Oops. :)
 
All these nice discounted BART ticket must be bought at kiosks. They cannot be bought from the ticket machines, so even if you eligible for a discount if you do not have the time to go to the kiosk or there is no one there then you are still stuck with the full fares.
 
Does BART offer monthly passes? If so, will people be reimbursed for the time period they can't use BART?
BART does have a ticket option called "BART Plus". It's valid as a bus pass on several bus services for a half-month. The value that's placed on the BART portion depends on the purchase price of the ticket, and that value expires five days after the normal half-month where the bus pass portion expires.

http://www.bart.gov/tickets/plus.aspx

Other than that, tickets are simply purchased and the value debited from the tickets. Most tickets don't expire. BART is also part of the Clipper Card system, where value is simply debited from an account holders running amount.
 
All these nice discounted BART ticket must be bought at kiosks. They cannot be bought from the ticket machines, so even if you eligible for a discount if you do not have the time to go to the kiosk or there is no one there then you are still stuck with the full fares.
I understand they're trying to phase out the high-value blue tickets and are encouraging riders to load the equivalent discount on the Clipper Card system instead. Most riders use what's know as "Clipper Cash", which is a value paid in cash, or maybe the pre-tax Commuter Check system. The discount BART-only value is preferentially debited from the Clipper Card when taking BART.

I used to get those high value paper tickets a lot, and it was really convenient because I worked on the same block as UC Berkeley's "commute store". They sold tickets to anyone, which was really handy because a lot of banks and stores that used to sell them started phasing them out because they hardly got any commission.

One of my frustrations with BART and these tickets was at the time that they seemed to be using them as a way to use up all the original paper ticket stock even though they'd otherwise moved to more durable plastic cards that didn't get soft after a while and jam the machines. The tickets only had enough space for the new value to be printed about 15 times or so before they ran out of room, at which point the ticket machines would spit out a new ticket (the exit fare machines always had a certain amount of new ticket stock to do this). You could add to a ticket, but it had to be below a certain value. The other deal was a few timesI had one that refused to work (either jammed in the machine or the magnetic strip got erased), I got a refund for the face value (based on the last amount printed to the ticket) prorated for the discount received on the ticket. So I got 14/15th of the face value cut as a check.

However, one time I bought one of those $10 for $8 discount tickets on Capitol Corridor and it didn't work. I had to wait a while for it, but I got the entire $10 as a refund check.
 
Transit Agencies will highly suggest using the Clipper Card if they accept them. BART highly prefers it as well. There are many reasons behind this but the one that is promoted is it is easier for the customer than to have multiple fare payment methods of loose cash.

Most of the major agencies are on board with Clipper now with smaller agencies due to come online in the coming years.

Capitol Corridor was discusses but the stations East of Suisun/Fairfield are outside of the MTC area as the MPO changed from MTC to SACOG which is developing its own Smart Card system for the Sacramento Region.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Transit Agencies will highly suggest using the Clipper Card if they accept them. BART highly prefers it as well. There are many reasons behind this but the one that is promoted is it is easier for the customer than to have multiple fare payment methods of loose cash.
Most of the major agencies are on board with Clipper now with smaller agencies due to come online in the coming years.

Capitol Corridor was discusses but the stations East of Suisun/Fairfield are outside of the MTC area as the MPO changed from MTC to SACOG which is developing its own Smart Card system for the Sacramento Region.
I buy the discounted Capitol Corridor BART ticket, so I have little incentive to use Clipper Cash for taking BART. I don't like using it for MUNI because the electronic system enforces a hard 90 minute valid/transfer period. If I board where I'm handed a paper transfer, it's typically valid for 2-1/2 hours and sometimes as much as 4 hours when the operator doesn't feel like resetting the transfer holder.

Mostly I use my Clipper Card for taking Caltrain or sometimes VTA if I don't have a valid CC transfer. I do take a VTA express bus from Fremont BART (not this week though) and a few times I did use my Clipper Card to take out the full $4 express bus fare before I realized that I could get a BART transfer and pay $2 cash. I can't use my Clipper Card with a transfer though, but I do typically use it if I'm going in the reverse direction where they don't accept BART return transfers (can't figure out why they don't do this).

I do remember being at the Fremont Amtrak station when someone was showing me his Clipper Card and asked me if he could use it on the train as it was coming in. I think he was asking me because I have a Clipper Card (employee badge on the other side) on a clip with a retractable cord I told him no, and that he'd need to buy a ticket from the conductor on the train if he wanted to get on this train. There was no way that he would have been able to get a ticket in time from the QT kiosk.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Transit Agencies will highly suggest using the Clipper Card if they accept them. BART highly prefers it as well. There are many reasons behind this but the one that is promoted is it is easier for the customer than to have multiple fare payment methods of loose cash.
Most of the major agencies are on board with Clipper now with smaller agencies due to come online in the coming years.

Capitol Corridor was discusses but the stations East of Suisun/Fairfield are outside of the MTC area as the MPO changed from MTC to SACOG which is developing its own Smart Card system for the Sacramento Region.
I buy the discounted Capitol Corridor BART ticket, so I have little incentive to use Clipper Cash for taking BART. I don't like using it for MUNI because the electronic system enforces a hard 90 minute valid/transfer period. If I board where I'm handed a paper transfer, it's typically valid for 2-1/2 hours and sometimes as much as 4 hours when the operator doesn't feel like resetting the transfer holder.
How many transit systems have a transfer system like that, where the transfer system is based on where the transfer holder lays? I know Pittsburgh does something similar, but here in Minneapolis the system just spits out a card with the time pre-printed to two-and-a-half hours.

I much prefer using my Go-To card over carrying cash. I get 10% off the cash fare, can load 10 rides (with transfers) on for $18.50 (works for fares up to $2.25, anything above takes out of your cash fare balance) and the transfer is embedded in. Plus, all I need to do when boarding is tap my wallet and go...the system takes care of the rest. No trying to get exact change or finding my transfer slip.
 
Transit Agencies will highly suggest using the Clipper Card if they accept them. BART highly prefers it as well. There are many reasons behind this but the one that is promoted is it is easier for the customer than to have multiple fare payment methods of loose cash.

Most of the major agencies are on board with Clipper now with smaller agencies due to come online in the coming years.

Capitol Corridor was discusses but the stations East of Suisun/Fairfield are outside of the MTC area as the MPO changed from MTC to SACOG which is developing its own Smart Card system for the Sacramento Region.
I buy the discounted Capitol Corridor BART ticket, so I have little incentive to use Clipper Cash for taking BART. I don't like using it for MUNI because the electronic system enforces a hard 90 minute valid/transfer period. If I board where I'm handed a paper transfer, it's typically valid for 2-1/2 hours and sometimes as much as 4 hours when the operator doesn't feel like resetting the transfer holder.
How many transit systems have a transfer system like that, where the transfer system is based on where the transfer holder lays? I know Pittsburgh does something similar, but here in Minneapolis the system just spits out a card with the time pre-printed to two-and-a-half hours.

I much prefer using my Go-To card over carrying cash. I get 10% off the cash fare, can load 10 rides (with transfers) on for $18.50 (works for fares up to $2.25, anything above takes out of your cash fare balance) and the transfer is embedded in. Plus, all I need to do when boarding is tap my wallet and go...the system takes care of the rest. No trying to get exact change or finding my transfer slip.
Maybe I'll be sort of revealing how old I am, but I remember taking AC Transit in the East Bay (San Francisco Bay Area) in the late 70s. They've gone through a whole string of different transfer systems. When I first started taking AC Transit regularly, they were still using GM "New Look" buses with their characteristic diesel exhaust smell. The transfers were always preprinted with the bus route and direction and went into one of those hand-tear presses. If it didn't seem reasonable for a transfer a bus driver would accept a transfer. Then they went to similar transfers good in any direction on any local route. Then they went to these machines that machine printed a transfer with the AC Transit logo, the day, and the time on adding machine paper. Still - the expiration time had to be hand-set by the driver, and sometimes a driver didn't feel like resetting it for a while and I'd see 4 hours when the minimum was supposed to be 2. I think after a while they started running into issues (like running out of paper) and went back to the preprinted transfers. I don't think a whole lot of people use transfers these days because they charge for it. Heck - I remember when getting a BART to AC Transit transfer meant a free ride. Then it cost a quarter. Now I think it doesn't get you more than just a 25 cent discount.

MUNI in San Francisco is all over the map when it comes to how long a transfer is valid. One used to be able to pay right at a MUNI Metro turnstile and get a proof of purchase/transfer where the time printed was automated, but now they use a system that either accepts Clipper (or MUNI only tickets using Clipper technology) or where a human operator allows someone to pass after flashing a paper transfer. Once the MUNI Metro streetcars actually got on the street (or taking a bus or antique streetcar), human operators hand tear the transfers. I also remember going to baseball games where some MUNI employee would be inside the BART gates and would sell essentially an all-day pass (if "LATE NIGHT" was still intact) for the price of a one-way fare.

transfers.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
We took Caltrain into San Francisco this morning from San Jose at 8am. It was standing room only the entire way, not sure if that is usually the case or not.

We just caught the 4:09 "Baby Bullet" back and there are several passengers talking about having to "slum it" on Caltrain due to the strike. They also said all of the Southbound trains after 4:30 are standing room only.

The traffic on 5th st to get onto I-80 was backed up for several blocks. It took us a good 20 minutes to get through there on the city bus. I sure wouldn't want to be driving in the city during this.
 
Actually - for San Francisco MUNI they're still known as the San Francisco Municipal Railway even though most of their service is by bus these days. I think back at the time of the punch transfers, they were still primarily a streetcar operator with some bus lines.
 
Transit Agencies will highly suggest using the Clipper Card if they accept them. BART highly prefers it as well. There are many reasons behind this but the one that is promoted is it is easier for the customer than to have multiple fare payment methods of loose cash.

Most of the major agencies are on board with Clipper now with smaller agencies due to come online in the coming years.

Capitol Corridor was discusses but the stations East of Suisun/Fairfield are outside of the MTC area as the MPO changed from MTC to SACOG which is developing its own Smart Card system for the Sacramento Region.
I buy the discounted Capitol Corridor BART ticket, so I have little incentive to use Clipper Cash for taking BART. I don't like using it for MUNI because the electronic system enforces a hard 90 minute valid/transfer period. If I board where I'm handed a paper transfer, it's typically valid for 2-1/2 hours and sometimes as much as 4 hours when the operator doesn't feel like resetting the transfer holder.
How many transit systems have a transfer system like that, where the transfer system is based on where the transfer holder lays? I know Pittsburgh does something similar, but here in Minneapolis the system just spits out a card with the time pre-printed to two-and-a-half hours.

I much prefer using my Go-To card over carrying cash. I get 10% off the cash fare, can load 10 rides (with transfers) on for $18.50 (works for fares up to $2.25, anything above takes out of your cash fare balance) and the transfer is embedded in. Plus, all I need to do when boarding is tap my wallet and go...the system takes care of the rest. No trying to get exact change or finding my transfer slip.
Maybe I'll be sort of revealing how old I am, but I remember taking AC Transit in the East Bay (San Francisco Bay Area) in the late 70s. They've gone through a whole string of different transfer systems. When I first started taking AC Transit regularly, they were still using GM "New Look" buses with their characteristic diesel exhaust smell. The transfers were always preprinted with the bus route and direction and went into one of those hand-tear presses. If it didn't seem reasonable for a transfer a bus driver would accept a transfer. Then they went to similar transfers good in any direction on any local route. Then they went to these machines that machine printed a transfer with the AC Transit logo, the day, and the time on adding machine paper. Still - the expiration time had to be hand-set by the driver, and sometimes a driver didn't feel like resetting it for a while and I'd see 4 hours when the minimum was supposed to be 2. I think after a while they started running into issues (like running out of paper) and went back to the preprinted transfers. I don't think a whole lot of people use transfers these days because they charge for it. Heck - I remember when getting a BART to AC Transit transfer meant a free ride. Then it cost a quarter. Now I think it doesn't get you more than just a 25 cent discount.

MUNI in San Francisco is all over the map when it comes to how long a transfer is valid. One used to be able to pay right at a MUNI Metro turnstile and get a proof of purchase/transfer where the time printed was automated, but now they use a system that either accepts Clipper (or MUNI only tickets using Clipper technology) or where a human operator allows someone to pass after flashing a paper transfer. Once the MUNI Metro streetcars actually got on the street (or taking a bus or antique streetcar), human operators hand tear the transfers. I also remember going to baseball games where some MUNI employee would be inside the BART gates and would sell essentially an all-day pass (if "LATE NIGHT" was still intact) for the price of a one-way fare.

transfers.jpg
I'm a bit surprised that they're still on that system...shouldn't the fare system be able to keep a semi-accurate clock in it? I guess the cost is just too high or something.

Here in Minneapolis transfers are free and unlimited for 2 and a half hours...actually a pretty good deal. The driver just presses a button when a customer pays their fare and a card like this pops out:

transfer_pass.gif


The back automatically prints the time it was issued, when it expires, what kind of fare they bought, etc. (as you'd still need to pay the difference in fare if you went on an express bus on a transfer, etc.) Kinda like this one (the one on the upper right):

eliminaterot.gif


I'm pretty sure the ticket reader keeps relatively exact time. It may not be radio-set or something like that, but they're set pretty close to the exact time. Of course, when transfers are free, they're used a lot more and it makes sense to have a good system for tracking them and forbidding abuse.
 
San Francisco MUNI could easily implement some sort of electronic system for fare receipts. I don't know if the union contract they have prohibits it. They've got buses, streetcars, and subways all interchangeable provided one has a fare receipt or pass that hasn't expired. All the forms of transport they have include a reader/encoder for Clipper (cable car conductors have handheld equipment) on board but they use a proof of fare system with fare inspectors.

I remember back when one could still pay at the gate and a MUNI Metro gate would issue a transfer to use when exiting the subway portion. This was before proof of fare was required and you had to ask for a transfer outside of the subway system. I was also under 12, and recall when the child fare was only 5 cents. At a subway station one looked to the station agent in a booth to buzz in an eligible passenger paying less than the adult fare. There were also some older machines where I think you had to ask the station agent to hand a transfer just like the ones issued on the surface.

Most of the other bus systems I ride around here don't even issue same system transfers unless one pays extra for it. MUNI probably still issues them because it's popular and because they require proof of payment.
 
Management and labor agreed to a mediator-proposed 30=day extension of the existing contract, so that BART service could be resumed while contract talks continue. Service scheduled to resume Friday afternoon, 5 July.
 
While BART is back in operation under a 30-day extension of the previous contract, both management and labor are doing a lot of trash talking to the press, and additional negotiation sessions are slow to be scheduled, short in duration, or non-existant. Look for the employee walkout to resume in early August.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top