Post-Madrid, vigilance heightened on U.S. railways

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

I just want to remind all railfans that we are to report anyone near the tracks and also the ones that take pictures of us go by.

UTU News

 

[battalion51]

Jeez, I didn't realize it was getting that bad out there. h34r:

But this heightened alertness does bring me to an idea I had a year or so ago following a cover article in Trains regarding people being questioned about their practice of taking pictures, video, or even just watching. I believe a Railfan ID card should be created. For a nominal fee ($10 something like that) a railfan could apply to have his/her background checked, and they are then issued a picture ID that shows that they have been checked out and they should be left alone. Now obviously this would only come into use when the police have been alerted, but it would instantly remove any suspicion of a railfan that has the idea. This could also be used for other "high security" activities, such as plane watching.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Jeez, I didn't realize it was getting that bad out there. h34r:
But this heightened alertness does bring me to an idea I had a year or so ago following a cover article in Trains regarding people being questioned about their practice of taking pictures, video, or even just watching. I believe a Railfan ID card should be created. For a nominal fee ($10 something like that) a railfan could apply to have his/her background checked, and they are then issued a picture ID that shows that they have been checked out and they should be left alone. Now obviously this would only come into use when the police have been alerted, but it would instantly remove any suspicion of a railfan that has the idea. This could also be used for other "high security" activities, such as plane watching.

That is a good idea sean

 

[battalion51]

I'm thinking I'm going to write the AAR, FRA, and NARP on this one (probably a letter to the editor of Trains as well). I think of some the horror stories of railfans being detained after 9/11, one guy was held for 6 hours because he was taking pictures at a famous diamond in Texas, that makes me sick.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

One of my co workers got off the engine at our ramp in Avondale and confronted a railfan on BNSF prop who was taking pictures of the train.Also the co worker is a railfan and takes pictures himself but we have to report all trespassers on RR prop. This outraged the railfans in La you should have seen the letter the person wrote to BNSF and left sevral copys on our table in Lafayette for us to read.

 

[engine999]

Jeez, I didn't realize it was getting that bad out there. h34r:
But this heightened alertness does bring me to an idea I had a year or so ago following a cover article in Trains regarding people being questioned about their practice of taking pictures, video, or even just watching. I believe a Railfan ID card should be created. For a nominal fee ($10 something like that) a railfan could apply to have his/her background checked, and they are then issued a picture ID that shows that they have been checked out and they should be left alone. Now obviously this would only come into use when the police have been alerted, but it would instantly remove any suspicion of a railfan that has the idea. This could also be used for other "high security" activities, such as plane watching.

That is a good idea sean

I would also have to agree.

 

[Viewliner]

While I don't really like the idea of having to resort to these measures, if it would guarentee me a certain level of freedom in being able to watch/photograph trains, I'd invest in it.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

When i go railfaning i wear my BNSF picture ID so no one will bother me.I think this crap has gotten a little out of hand the only thing i can say is just be carefull.

 

[Viewliner]

When i go railfaning i wear my BNSF picture ID so no one will bother me.I think this crap has gotten a little out of hand the only thing i can say is just be carefull.

Couldn't have been said better. People are just taking pictures, they're not sabotaging rails or going under the train. If they're in say a yard without permission then that's something to be curious about. But if its just somebody on a platform taking pictures, thats not a true big deal, people tend to overreact.

 

[battalion51]

Matt, are there exceptions to areas that you have to report railfans at (i.e. train watching platforms like Folkston)? Fortunately for me most of my photography is done in stations where I'm likely not to get questioned, but this is getting rediculous.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Matt, are there exceptions to areas that you have to report railfans at (i.e. train watching platforms like Folkston)? Fortunately for me most of my photography is done in stations where I'm likely not to get questioned, but this is getting rediculous.

Amtrak Stations parks and those types of places no because that is not consierid RR prop it's more Public than private.

 

[battalion51]

OK, so for example, let's say I'm at the park right next to the ROW in Auburndale, and I'm taking pictures, I won't get called in. Right?

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

You shouldnt youe not on RR prop that is the main thing as long as your not on RR prop there is nothing anyone can do.

 

[Steve4031]

The act of taking pictures in and of itself is not threatening to the operation of trains. However, if someone taking pictures to gather intelligence, then that presents a another set of issues.

Unfortunately, this increased level of security is about as effective as shuttting the barn door after the horse has run out.

 

[Allen Dee]

An Open Letter to the People of Spain

by Laura Mansfield, Analyst

The terrorist attack that massacred 200 of your countrymen, and injured over a thousand, was a horrific act. The world grieves with you. We all know it could have happened to our people in our countries just as easily as it happened in Madrid last Thursday.

But no matter how tragic and horrible that act was, it was not a victory for the terrorists.

The victory for the terrorists in Spain came on Sunday.

The professed goal of the attack, according to numerous Al Qaeda communiques, was to punish Spain for its support of the United States in the war against Iraq.

Sunday, in your free elections, you voted to place the communist party in power. This morning your new leadership announced that it would withdraw the Spanish troops from Iraq, and in effect abandon the coalition.

Your actions proved beyond the shadow of a doubt to Al Qaeda that if they kill enough people in a mass casualty attack that they can swing the popular vote. You've proved that they can influence elections.

You have just guaranteed that the United States will sustain a mass casualty terrorist action on our soil before our November elections. After all, maybe we too can be frightened into a policy of isolationalism. You probably also doomed Tony Blair's government in England to the same fate. How many will die in terror attacks in the United States and England in order for the terrorists to try and intimidate us?

In 1937, your countryman Pablo Picasso created a masterpiece depicting the horrors of wars in Guernica.

That same year, British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain made this statement: "We should seek by all means in our power to avoid war, by analyzing possible causes, by trying to remove them, by discussion in a spirit of collaboration and good will." He entered into a policy of appeasement with Germany, instead of taking a stand and drawing a line in the sands of time. The end result was that Adolf Hitler had more time to strengthen his hold on power and perpetrate a holocaust not just on the Jews of Germany, but on much of Europe.

At the same time, your countrymen were giving their lives in a struggle for freedom in Spain.

You were not afraid in 1937. Where is the courage of 1937?

The message you sent to Al Qaeda yesterday was clear. "Please don't threaten us; please don't kill our people; we'll do what you want us to do."

Why are you allowing the terrorists to intimidate you now? Why do you let them win?

What happened?

I leave you now with the words "Hasta la Vista". Call us when you need us. You will be calling; your actions in response to the Madrid terrorism attack guaranteed it. And when you call us, we will come and help. Even if Al Qaeda threatens us and attacks us. We don't let fear cower us into appeasement or surrender. That's the kind of people we are.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Is this what Al Qaeda has planned for the US?

"How the Khilaafah will be restored & Man-made law destroyed" -- Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad in London

14 March 2004. This chilling image is prominently displayed on a London-based Jihadi website advertising a conference of Islamists which was held in London on March 3, 2004. The English-language website, Al-Muhajiroun, is operated by an organization led by Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad.

The conference was held in commemoration of the eightieth anniversary of the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.

Although this Al-Qaeda related group is based in London, it has branches here in the United States. On their activities page, it clearly states at the top "..::MAIN EVENT IN NEW YORK, USA::..". According to the graphic below, events were still being held in the United States as recently as February 22, 2004.

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/

 

[tp49]

This should be really easy and really is nothing new either...Don't trespass on railroad property and you'll have nothing to worry about re the Railroad Bulls and the train crews calling you in. I have zero sympathy for someone who complains about this issue when trespassing.

 

[KiwiKate]

Don't you think someone intending illegal actions, would learn more about rail services, trains, schedules, security etc, from a variety of websites than from hanging around railway stations risking some official kicking them out of the place for taking photos? I've certainly learnt plenty just from reading some of the topics in these forums. I don't mind increased security especially like that which you find in airports, but checking out people for taking photos seems a bit over the top. They should spend more time maybe concentrating on abandoned bags!

 

[Chatter163]

I was curious about this railfain ID idea. What would prevent terrorists from simply gaining a railfan ID, so they could move about unencumbered? Who would perform the check? Who would issue the ID? Surely such a comprehensive background check (more than a mere credit or criminal check) would cost more than $10 a shot. :unsure:

 

[Guest]

Hey guys, lighten up.

This is serious business and if you are a Railfan, you should be part of the solution and not part of the problem. No picture taking, especially on RR property. Who decides if you are a good railfan or a bad railfan? If I saw someone on the NEC taking pictures of Acela, you can bet I would report them in an instant.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Yes, it is serious business....and yet photo taking is so important to most of us railfans.

I will be taking a big trip across Canada and back in mid-September. Had counted on a lot of VIA shots(as well as Amtrak to and from).

Hopefully I can step off the train at intermediate stops and get away with it inasmuch as the sleeper car attendant will have gotten used to me as a paying passenger.

Hopefully that should especially work going across Canada, since it is a three night trip. No shots at he beginning, of the trip (when they don't know me yet) of course.....but after a day or two....surely they will sense that they can trust me.

It might help if I buy an Amtrak cap or sweater or something---had such years ago, outgrew them.....might be time to check that out again. I can't see going across Canada and back and not getting one ---just one----shot of the Canadian's Dome Observation Lounge, if nothing else.

Hopefully taking shots of the train FROM the train(i.e. the front window of the domes) will not be a problem, after all, that would be no different from taking shots of the scenery.

Surely I won't go to jail for that.

Of course, maybe I'm getting a little paranoid here...you folks have been talking about TRESPASSERS....and I will not be that in any sense...I will be a paying passenger. But still probably a good idea for the on-board crew to get used to me....probably won't take many or any terminal shots in Toronto or Vancouver....what a shame!!

 

[Guest]

As I suggestion, you might contact VIA Media Relations department and let them know you are going across country and as a Railfan, would like to have permission to shoot on-board and at the various platforms/stations.

I know Amtrak is always willing to work with people who want to film on board and in the stations, but they ask that they be contacted and issue a letter of permission.

Since most of the Railfan's photos are for personal use - or possibly posted on various websites, that should not be a problem.

Good luck.

 

[battalion51]

To me the issue of trespassing is a touchy one, what constitutes trespassing. At many places public land and Railroad ROW are right next to each other, if not a couple of feet away from each other. For instance, my railfanning spot in Orlando is on the edge of a parking lot right next to the tracks. I try to set up about 5-10 feet from the edge of the ballast to get a good angle on the train as it goes by. Does that constitute trespassing? As railroad property goes (that's on solid land) there is no line that says, "OK here's where our property ends and public land begins." How can you know if you're trespassing if you don't even know where you are considered to be trespassing? Or this instance. In many places railroads and surface roads do not cross at grade, rather the rails or the road are on a bridge. Can you be considered a trespasser if you're on a bridge overlooking the rails taking pictures of the trains?

As far as the railfan ID goes, it simply an idea guys. It would make the most sense to me for it to be issued by the AAR (since they're non federal, yet all railroads are associated with them). As far as the fee goes, I just used $10 as an example, whoever issues them can come up with the cost, $10 was just a random number I chose to demonstrate my point. As far as terrorists getting the ID is concerned goes, I think you should have to send a photocopy of a Valid US drivers license or US Passport, plus your name, address, social security number, current employer, references, etc. From there the AAR would request a full background check on the individual, analyze the criminal history (if any), talk to the references, and then determine whether you pose any threat to the railroad. The ID would then be issued and mailed to you if they see that you pose no threat. Once issued you would have to renew it every five years (just like you do your drivers license). The ID does not necessarily have to have a photo on it, but the ID in conjunction with your drivers license proves that you pose no threat. Really this is no different than what the airlines want to do with all of their passengers, identifying anyone suspicious who needs to be screened thoroughly or not allowed to fly at all based on their background.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

FYI RR prop goes 50ft ether side of the tracks.

 

[battalion51]

Even onto private property, or public property (parks) for that matter?

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Even onto private property, or public property (parks) for that matter?

I should say 50ft from the center rail.yep that is how much row the RR owns but if your in a park or on priviate prop your ok if you go past the telaphone poles then your on RR prop.