It appears that most are OK - interesting pictures
http://www.news-record.com/content/2012/08/16/article/train_truck_collide_near_jamestown
http://www.news-record.com/content/2012/08/16/article/train_truck_collide_near_jamestown
Piedmont hits truck hauling limestone near Greensboro
- Thread starter jhjr
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Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
Since there's no fatalities, it's kinda cool to see a big rig cut in half by a F45PHI. This does not mean that I like accidents, though.
amtrakwolverine
Engineer
Who owns the tracks in this section? Seams the witnesses say the crossing does not always work correctly. The gates come down before the lights activate.
I believe the Piedmont route tracks from Selma to Charlotte are owned by NC, but are maintained by NS. I would not give much weight to the statements of bystanders on whether there were problems with the gate.
Hard to tell from the white limestone coating, but the locomotive appears to have suffered some damage (photo #4). The coach cars will have to be hosed off. And the interiors cleaned from clouds of lime dust drifting in through the doors.
Wonder if this grade crossing is one that is supposed to grade separated with the funds that NC received for improvements to the Piedmont corridor? If not, there is now a case for doing so.
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fairviewroad
Engineer
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Well if the gates come down before the lights activate, that should still theoretically keep someone from being on the tracks when they shouldn't be. If there
wasn't enough room for the truck to completely clear the crossing, the driver should not have entered the crossing, regardless of the operability of the gates
or lights.
BTW, the thread title is misleading. The truck was carrying agricultural lime, not limestone. The former is basically a powder. The latter is, well, a tad more solid.
Devil's Advocate
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Maybe we should be spending those hundreds of millions of additional TSA dollars on fixing whatever is causing our truckers to end up on the tracks while trains are passing. Because it seems like a surprisingly common problem that creates real danger and hurts Amtrak's ability to provide dependable service while also putting pressure on the bottom line. I read in a New York Times article that Amtrak is generally responsible for the first ten million of liability from accidents involving Amtrak trains and that this is due in part to the large number of accidents Amtrak is involved in. I wonder how many dozens (hundreds?) of destructive truck incursions there have been since our one and only Amtrak related terrorist event from 1993.
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transit54
Conductor
I think the easy way to solve the problem is add a camera to the crossing. The second the lights start flashing, the camera records the plates of any vehicles that cross and they receive a hefty fine. The fine will pay for the cost of the camera, as well as the cost to deploy and maintain additional cameras, and it will solve the problem pretty quickly. The cameras might even generate enough revenue to pay for additional cross-buck only crossings to have gates and lights added.
Devil's Advocate
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I think it's pretty clear that at this point even the very real risk of dismemberment or death isn't enough to stop this from happening. As such a camera based fine seems woefully inadequate as any sort of serious deterrent.
fairviewroad
Engineer
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Not to mention that some (many?) of the train-truck collisions have occurred at rural crossings with little by way of lights, gates, etc. The cost of upgrading those intersections
and outfitting them with cameras would be prohibitive, especially since the revenue generated by violators at those crossings would be negligible.
That said, I think it could be effective as a targeted program in areas with frequent grade-crossing incidents.
The title of this post should read "Truck Collides with Amtrak Train" The problem with the post and media headline is that people assumed that its the fault of the train when its says "Piedmont Hits Truck". You have no business on the tracks when a train is coming. If you go upon the tracks and have an accident it is your fault.
How does the headline train hits truck imply that it is the fault of the train? In this case, it appears that the truck was either moving slowly or not moving while straddling the tracks. The train, moving at much higher speed - and the clear right of way - collided with the middle of the truck. In the common usage of "hit", almost everyone would say that the train hit the truck. So what? Again, does not indicate fault in any way.
George Harris
Engineer
The line is owned by the State of North Carolina as the North Carolina Railroad. It is operated by Norfolk Southern under a long term lease. This is the former Southern Railway's Washington to Atlanta main line, and in this location is double track. Again, the line was and has been from the beginning owned by the state of North Carolina but had been operataed for many years by Southern. It has lots of trains, including 4 passenger trains in each direction. They are the Crrescent and three state supported trains that run between Raleigh and Charlotte. East of Greensboro ths line is used only by the North Carolan trains and a few freights. This is the line that has been significantly upgrades including addition of signals by the state.
transit54
Conductor
The problem is that there is a risk of death or dismemberment. Cameras would ensure there was a definate penalty. It's the difference of someone saying, "I think I have enough time to get across this crossing" versus "I"m not going to cross because I know I'll get a $400 ticket." I think that would change a lot of people's behavior.
Sure, this will not help rural crossings. But I'm wondering if it would generate sufficient revenue to equip such crossings. And many of these incidents, including this one, take place at crossings with powered signals.
Here's another news story with video and a photo gallery. Although it says the truck was carrying limestone instead of agricultural lime.
Anyone else reminded of the Thomas the Tank Engine story?
Anyone else reminded of the Thomas the Tank Engine story?
amtrakwolverine
Engineer
The locomotive appears to be a F59PH not a F59PHI.
MattW
Conductor
I'm glad I wasn't the only one :blush:
A problem that exists at several crossings in our area is one in which a traffic light and cross street are near the railroad crossing.
The crossing gates could come down while traffic is stopped waiting for a light.
Yes, everyone should know not to pull over a crossing while waiting for a traffic signal, but there have been times when it is difficult to gauge the distance between a vehicle ahead and your own stopping point. The light changes quickly and the cars ahead decide to stop.
Several crossings have traffic lights coordinated with the railroad signals so that they will change to green for the crossing traffic, but that is not always the case.
Not sure from the photos whether that might have been the case in this accident but there does appear to be a cross street and signal to the left in one of the photos.
It would seem that an investigation of this crossing, lights, etc would bear some valuable information for future traffic patterns at this crossing. And perhaps save some lives as well. -_-
The crossing gates could come down while traffic is stopped waiting for a light.
Yes, everyone should know not to pull over a crossing while waiting for a traffic signal, but there have been times when it is difficult to gauge the distance between a vehicle ahead and your own stopping point. The light changes quickly and the cars ahead decide to stop.
Several crossings have traffic lights coordinated with the railroad signals so that they will change to green for the crossing traffic, but that is not always the case.
Not sure from the photos whether that might have been the case in this accident but there does appear to be a cross street and signal to the left in one of the photos.
It would seem that an investigation of this crossing, lights, etc would bear some valuable information for future traffic patterns at this crossing. And perhaps save some lives as well. -_-
You can easily see the grade crossing on Ragsdale Rd in Google Earth or other satellite photo site. Just search for Jamestown NC. The grade crossing and intersection are in Google Street View for close-up viewing.
Yes, this is a grade crossing maybe 150' away from a traffic intersection with traffic lights. Trucks or cars getting hung up on a traffic signal change in the middle of the crossing because the driver misjudged the signal change and traffic speed is a common problem. In this case, though, there is a lot of open space around the grade crossing. When the gates came down, the truck driver should have been able to pull into the opposing lane and the Shell station or to his right across the sidewalk. The truck could have been too close to the car or vehicle to maneuver, but that would an additional case of poor judgment by the truck driver to get too close to the car in front of you to do anything.
The HSIPR funding that NC received will be used to close 28 grade crossings on the Piedmont corridor, I think almost all between Greensboro and Charlotte. Found a recent viewgraph presentation of the NC DOT plans for the corridor and projects in Charlotte. Don't know if this specific grade crossing will be grade separated or not.
fairviewroad
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The truck was clearly carrying agricultural lime (or simply "lime") not limestone. In the photo gallery you can see bags of it sitting on the
ground beside the truck. Limestone is not put into plastic bags for the purpose of hauling. I think if the truck had been hauling limestone,
the collision would have been much more serious.
I knew it was lime instead of limestone. I was trying to point out that the article made the same error that, as noted earlier, is in the thread title. I didn't make that clear at all. Sorry.
fairviewroad
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No worries. Sorry to imply that you were perpetuating the error. Actually, I watched the video segment on that link and the reporter does not refer
to limestone, simple lime. So the error was made by whoever "webified" her story.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
Right, it is a regular F59PH. I did not know Amtrak NC had those, I thought they only had the F59PHI.
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