old timetable

[hickorytrainlover]

Hi,

I used to take a train from Norfolk, va to Chicago in the 70's. I can't remember the name but it later became the Cardinal. The one from Norfolk connected with a train from washington then continued to Chicago. Does anyone have a copy of a timetable for this train or any lit. from back then?

Thanks

 

[JAChooChoo]

Hi, I used to take a train from Norfolk, va to Chicago in the 70's. I can't remember the name but it later became the Cardinal. The one from Norfolk connected with a train from washington then continued to Chicago. Does anyone have a copy of a timetable for this train or any lit. from back then?

Thanks

Actually the Norfolk train was The Mountaineer [with a dome car] which merged with The Cardinal at the Tri-State [Catlettsburg KY] station.

 

by 1979 The Mountaineer had a new name Hilltopper and a new route as the overnight Amfleet Boston-Washington [with a sleeper] and onto Richmond and Catlettsburg [as an Amcoach + Amcafe]

 

[Anthony]

May 15, 1975

 

[hickorytrainlover]

May 15, 1975

Thanks so much

 

[hickorytrainlover]

Does anyone have any pictures of this train?

 

[George Harris]

Does anyone have any pictures of this train?

I don't. However, it was always short. It was much slower than the Pocohontas, and not worthy of mention in the same paragrah with Powhattan Arrow. Probably because N&W had reduced superelevation and speed limits on curves to reduce chewing up of the low rail on curves by coal trains.

This train was one of the Harley Staggers specials, the other being Harley's Hornet, the real name of which I have forgotten, which ran Washingot DC to Parkersburg WV, initially with a Turbotrain. Harley Staggers was a very senior West Virginia congressman that had a lot of influence on Amtrak's funding, so to make him happy, there had to be trains in his home turf. After he retired, so were these two trains.

George

 

[hickorytrainlover]

Does anyone have any pictures of this train?

I don't. However, it was always short. It was much slower than the Pocohontas, and not worthy of mention in the same paragrah with Powhattan Arrow. Probably because N&W had reduced superelevation and speed limits on curves to reduce chewing up of the low rail on curves by coal trains.

This train was one of the Harley Staggers specials, the other being Harley's Hornet, the real name of which I have forgotten, which ran Washingot DC to Parkersburg WV, initially with a Turbotrain. Harley Staggers was a very senior West Virginia congressman that had a lot of influence on Amtrak's funding, so to make him happy, there had to be trains in his home turf. After he retired, so were these two trains.

George

Then how did the Cardinal survive? I hear they trying to get rid of it forever?

 

[Rafi]

Then how did the Cardinal survive? I hear they trying to get rid of it forever?

Senator Byrd of West Virginia injected an amendment to a piece of legislation that essentially says that Amtrak needs to provide service to West Virginia as long as he's around. It's similar to Haley's arrangement, from what I understand, and that's basically why we still have the Cardinal. In the last few years, yes, one may say that Amtrak's put the Cardinal on the proverbial, "life support," taking it to thrice-weekly, stripping it of Superliner equipment, taking it from two sleepers to one, eventually taking the diner off, and for a very short time time, running the train coach and cafe-only. I've often referred to it as the "red-headed stepchild," what with the way it's been treated in terms of equipment, but I'd hesitate before I'd say that "they are trying to get rid of it forever." That may be a little dramatic for my taste, especially given that, well, they can't, as long as Byrd is around.

There may be brighter news on the horizon for the Cardinal, in any case. There are rumblings that Amtrak is considering moving the train back to Superliner equipment with the new SDS car when the design is finalized and implemented. I certainly hope so. I've always said that the Cardinal is one of Amtrak's most underrated gems that, if given a little polish, would be a substantial hit, especially during the summer seasons when families are looking for scenic trips. The trip through the New River Gorge is spectacular, especially with the view from Superliner equipment.

I'm sure some of the other folks on the board can speak with some more authority concerning Byrd and the equipment, but the above should at least give you the gist of the Cardinal's situation.

-Rafi

 

[AlanB]

Actually Rafi, I was under the impression that Senator Byrd had managed to set things in place such that the train continues even after he's gone. AFAIK as long as there is an Amtrak, there must be a Cardinal.

As for the train itself, I'm not so sure about coach, but most days one can't buy a sleeper last minute, so the train is doing some business.

 

[Rafi]

Actually Rafi, I was under the impression that Senator Byrd had managed to set things in place such that the train continues even after he's gone. AFAIK as long as there is an Amtrak, there must be a Cardinal.

Alan, you could very well be right; I've only assumed that Byrd had secured it to run as long as he held tenure, so that he could defend the service should any issues arise. It could be that he has an arrangement far more permanent.

As for the train itself, I'm not so sure about coach, but most days one can't buy a sleeper last minute, so the train is doing some business.

That's spot-on, although I think some of the reason has to do with the lessened consist and the thrice-weekly schedule. The sleepers are routinely in the top bucket on the train, and coach is pretty much packed out of WAS and CHI. If nothing else, the train's average manifest demonstrates that it could easily support another sleeper, another coach, a diner, and, what I think is most important: daily service. I think a return to Superliner equipment would fulfill a good portion of these "wish list items," namely the diner (well, okay, SDS) and daily service, despite the loss of service up the NEC.

-Rafi

 

[MrFSS]

That's spot-on, although I think some of the reason has to do with the lessened consist and the thrice-weekly schedule. The sleepers are routinely in the top bucket on the train, and coach is pretty much packed out of WAS and CHI. If nothing else, the train's average manifest demonstrates that it could easily support another sleeper, another coach, a diner, and, what I think is most important: daily service. I think a return to Superliner equipment would fulfill a good portion of these "wish list items," namely the diner (well, okay, SDS) and daily service, despite the loss of service up the NEC.
-Rafi

Rafi - I rode The Cardinal from NYP to IND several years ago. When I boarded in New York, I was the ONLY sleeping car passenger on the train from NYP to WAS. Felt like I had my own private car. At lunch, I was the only person on the first class side of the dinette car, too. Was quite an experience. At WAS, only two other people boarded and we had the car to our selves half way into Virginia. The coaches were packed, though.

 

[Rafi]

Rafi - I rode The Cardinal from NYP to IND several years ago. When I boarded in New York, I was the ONLY sleeping car passenger on the train from NYP to WAS. Felt like I had my own private car. At lunch, I was the only person on the first class side of the dinette car, too. Was quite an experience. At WAS, only two other people boarded and we had the car to our selves half way into Virginia. The coaches were packed, though.

Wow, well what can I say? Most of my trips from WAS-CLP have been packed, and on the occasion I've gone to CHI, it's been a top-price sleeper bucket. But who knows... could be a seasonal thing, as I've only rode sleeper during summer and fall months.

-Rafi

 

[MrFSS]

Rafi - I rode The Cardinal from NYP to IND several years ago. When I boarded in New York, I was the ONLY sleeping car passenger on the train from NYP to WAS. Felt like I had my own private car. At lunch, I was the only person on the first class side of the dinette car, too. Was quite an experience. At WAS, only two other people boarded and we had the car to our selves half way into Virginia. The coaches were packed, though.

Wow, well what can I say? Most of my trips from WAS-CLP have been packed, and on the occasion I've gone to CHI, it's been a top-price sleeper bucket. But who knows... could be a seasonal thing, as I've only rode sleeper during summer and fall months.

-Rafi

Yep - my trip was mid-January and the weather was nasty that year.