Old Herritage "Cafeteria / Lounge car"

[amtrakmichigan]

I was just looking through an old Amtrak timetable from the fall/winter of 1981/1982. I noticed that the Crescent and Broadway Limited used what was called a Cafeteria / lounge in conjunction with a full diner. I was just currious as to how the interior of the car was set up and what exactly was served in the "cafeteria"?

 

[jphjaxfl]

I was just looking through an old Amtrak timetable from the fall/winter of 1981/1982. I noticed that the Crescent and Broadway Limited used what was called a Cafeteria / lounge in conjunction with a full diner. I was just currious as to how the interior of the car was set up and what exactly was served in the "cafeteria"?

You are probably referring to the former Pennsylvannia Railroad Double units dining cars where one car was had tables and chairs acticulated with another car which had the kitchen and some additional tables. The doors between the cars could stay open when meals were being served so that the wait staff could move back and forth without having to open the doors. Amtrak modified some of these cars to a cafeteria format. These cars were used on the Silver Service trains for a while. The cafeteria format didn't go over very well.

 

[the_traveler]

I remember them in service on the Silver trains. One car had the kitchen and the typical "cafeteria" style pans of food that you chose what you wanted and it was placed on a plate for you. At the end of the line, you paid the cashier. Then you went to sit in the next car (that had the tables).

I'm glad they got rid of them! <_<

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I was just looking through an old Amtrak timetable from the fall/winter of 1981/1982. I noticed that the Crescent and Broadway Limited used what was called a Cafeteria / lounge in conjunction with a full diner. I was just currious as to how the interior of the car was set up and what exactly was served in the "cafeteria"?

You are probably referring to the former Pennsylvannia Railroad Double units dining cars where one car was had tables and chairs acticulated with another car which had the kitchen and some additional tables. The doors between the cars could stay open when meals were being served so that the wait staff could move back and forth without having to open the doors. Amtrak modified some of these cars to a cafeteria format. These cars were used on the Silver Service trains for a while. The cafeteria format didn't go over very well.

I am not sure. I do both, 1. know what you are talking about and 2. remember an actual cafeteria line. Not sure if they go together or not.

I do remember the twin unit dining cars and some of the railroads that ran them were Pennsylvania, ACL,NewYork Central, Illinois Central, for some examples.Guess I was actually only in one twice, that would have been on the Broadway Limited and the South Wind.

Also, I rememberd--and liked--even if others did not---- The literal cafeteria line. liked selecting my own food etc and one could hold onto the railing.There was a good variety, at least as good as at present. The lounge part of the car was a true lounge, not just blank tables.

I miss them. As to whether they were the former twin unit cars, I never noticed that,and should probably be kicked for not noticing it. But I can be sure I was not even thinking such a thng. Wish I had.

 

[spacecadet]

I think there is some confusion between "cafeteria" and "buffet" cars here, though I'm not sure that Amtrak themselves really had a standard for what some of these words really meant (and they didn't used to write them on the sides of the cars themselves). Amtrak used to call some of the buffet cars "buffet - diner - lounge" cars, so even they seemed a little confused. I remember the cafeteria cars being a precursor to the modern "cafe" cars, where you could buy snacks and light meals. The "buffet" cars were what a few people have described here so far, more of a real dining car but with a buffet setup, and these may or may not have been part of the earlier tandem kitchen/diner set. I know at least a few were converted lounges and/or observation cars, so they clearly weren't *all* originally a tandem set.

I never rode in a buffet car that I remember, but I do remember the cafeteria cars at least somewhat clearly. I remember them being basically a heritage lounge car outfitted with cheap looking tables and spartan seating (not booths as I recall) and then a basic snack counter like in an Amfleet cafe car, but it wasn't set up exactly like that. I remember it being more like the bottom level of a Superliner lounge car, somehow. I think the snack bar section may have been in a corner of the car, similar to the bottom level of one of the Great Domes (like this, but without the decoration or the booth seating: http://www.gngoat.org/domes09.jpg)

My memory could be a little off, as I was pretty young, but that's how I remember them.

Also, in 1981-82 the Crescent, at least, would have still had a full bar car, which was distinct from the regular cafe/lounge or buffet/diner car. This was not regularly advertised, from what I remember, maybe because they didn't have that many cars or they just didn't run them every day. But I can remember riding the Amtrak Crescent around that time and being absolutely amazed to walk through the train and come upon a bar car in its original decor, complete with piano and everything. So I think they may have used the "cafeteria lounge" nomenclature in part to distinguish from their "real" lounge cars that they still had at the time. A cafeteria lounge was a place to buy food and eat it; a plain old lounge was just a place to relax.

In those days, though, there was still a lot of variation in Amtrak's equipment, even among cars called the same thing. They made an attempt at standardized naming but a lot of these cars they had were highly customized for the railroads they came from, and they never bothered to update a lot of them. So you ended up with confusing things like a "buffet - diner - lounge", a "cafeteria lounge" and a plain old "lounge" all running on the same train and all configured differently. They would just add words as needed to describe a car's function, but even two regular "lounges" could look totally different inside.

I suppose that means it's also possible that there were different types of "cafeteria" cars too.

Edit: Whoa, I was mostly right! http://library.duke.edu/digitalcollections...ess.T2486/pg.1/

It's possible Amtrak did serve hot food out of these for a time, I guess, but when I rode on them, they were just using them as a snack car. They're definitely not the same as the buffet diners.

 

[access bob]

I remember them in service on the Silver trains. One car had the kitchen and the typical "cafeteria" style pans of food that you chose what you wanted and it was placed on a plate for you. At the end of the line, you paid the cashier. Then you went to sit in the next car (that had the tables).
I'm glad they got rid of them! <_<

doesn't the Autotrain still have a buffet car????

Bob

 

[AlanB]

I remember them in service on the Silver trains. One car had the kitchen and the typical "cafeteria" style pans of food that you chose what you wanted and it was placed on a plate for you. At the end of the line, you paid the cashier. Then you went to sit in the next car (that had the tables).
I'm glad they got rid of them! <_<

doesn't the Autotrain still have a buffet car????

Bob

No, the AutoTrain has regular dining cars with regular dining service. No SDS in fact, so you get glass plates and glasses. The AT does have overflow seating in the lounge car, but they are still normal style tables with flowers and cloth table cloths, and you still get waiter/waitress service just like the regular dining car.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I remember them in service on the Silver trains. One car had the kitchen and the typical "cafeteria" style pans of food that you chose what you wanted and it was placed on a plate for you. At the end of the line, you paid the cashier. Then you went to sit in the next car (that had the tables).
I'm glad they got rid of them! <_<

doesn't the Autotrain still have a buffet car????

Bob

No, the AutoTrain has regular dining cars with regular dining service. No SDS in fact, so you get glass plates and glasses. The AT does have overflow seating in the lounge car, but they are still normal style tables with flowers and cloth table cloths, and you still get waiter/waitress service just like the regular dining car.

I've always wondered- with smoking on the AT- how the hell can anybody stand it? I mean... Superliners aren't known for having open windows, lol...

 

[Guest_Yerry_*]

Original Post asked about a line item in a schedule. Apparently, all this posting about cafeterias and buffets is from the first reply, and not the OP.

Old PRR kitchen & diner cars? Most likely, no. I rode one of the first HEP Broadways in 1980, before the OP's timeframe. Separate diner and lounge cars, and this was weeks before the first attempt at reduced dining car service took place.

One of mt internal Amtrak rosters listing wheelset replacements lists both the PRR and SP twin diner units as retired for scrapping. The roster predates both the OP's and my trip, with large blocks of cars set aside for HEP conversion and notes that those cars will have trucks completely rebuilt at teh same time.

But then, if not the twin-units, what could they be. . . . . ?

 

[Dental Wiz]

I was just looking through an old Amtrak timetable from the fall/winter of 1981/1982. I noticed that the Crescent and Broadway Limited used what was called a Cafeteria / lounge in conjunction with a full diner. I was just currious as to how the interior of the car was set up and what exactly was served in the "cafeteria"?

The Cafeteria Lounge cars were outfitted at the time Amtrak converted various Heritage cars to HEP. I believe these cars began life as coaches and were converted during the HEP program for this purpose. The cars were attractive, done in earth tones. They had a service area on one end. Here were glass cabinets where passengers could self serve various food items. At the end of this row of cabinets was an attendent in a traditional buffet area where passengers could get hot offerings, beer, liquor etc. and pay for their food.

Adjacent to this serving area were a line of booths where passengers could sit and eat their food. At the far end of the car were some lounge tables.

The cars had a high volume vent system since smoking was permitted in these car when they were introduced. If a diner was bad ordered, these cars pinch hit many times although the dinners were quite poor.

The cars ran on the referbished Broadway and Lake shore and Crescent. They also occasionally ended up on the Florida service trains when they were converted to HEP although frequently "Amdinettes", as they used to be called, were used in this service.

I rode in these cars many times and have many a good memory. They were a well built car and were very popular. Near the end of their service the cars became very worn and shabby. None are in service today and I assume Amtrak has disposed of them.

The old Twin unit diners were retired at the time of the HEP conversion of the Heritage fleet. I can remember eating dinner on the Lake Shore in them.

The buffet cars ran on the Florida trains mostly during the Claytor years. In those days , the Florida trains were very popular and a 44 seat diner really couldn't put a dent in the demand for meals. Early on Amtrak ran 2 full diners on the Silver trains . The buffet cars were a more cost effective way of trying to feed the masses on these trains. They consisted of 2 cars per set. One car had a kitchen where the food was prepared and a chow line where passengers could line up and receive their food. A waiter would then wisk the food to an adjacent table car where passengers would dine. The service was very utilitarian and the food was average to poor at best. Plates, cups and flatware were all disposable and were of poor quality. The cars "got the job done" but the experience was always less than enjoyable. I was thrilled when they retired them.

Respectively submitted,

Steve

 

[AlanB]

No, the AutoTrain has regular dining cars with regular dining service. No SDS in fact, so you get glass plates and glasses. The AT does have overflow seating in the lounge car, but they are still normal style tables with flowers and cloth table cloths, and you still get waiter/waitress service just like the regular dining car.

I've always wondered- with smoking on the AT- how the hell can anybody stand it? I mean... Superliners aren't known for having open windows, lol...

Well one can only smoke in a specially enclosed room in the lower level of the lounge car. That room has an automatic door that closes right behind anyone entering or exiting the room. The room itself has a fan that vents the smoke to the outside of the train.

Smoking is not permitted anyplace else within the train except for those special rooms in the two lounge cars.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

No, the AutoTrain has regular dining cars with regular dining service. No SDS in fact, so you get glass plates and glasses. The AT does have overflow seating in the lounge car, but they are still normal style tables with flowers and cloth table cloths, and you still get waiter/waitress service just like the regular dining car.

I've always wondered- with smoking on the AT- how the hell can anybody stand it? I mean... Superliners aren't known for having open windows, lol...

Well one can only smoke in a specially enclosed room in the lower level of the lounge car. That room has an automatic door that closes right behind anyone entering or exiting the room. The room itself has a fan that vents the smoke to the outside of the train.

Smoking is not permitted anyplace else within the train except for those special rooms in the two lounge cars.

Ahh that explains it. So this is the enhanced Superliner lol... I got it.

The other week when I was on the CL- we had a couple Amfleet IIs and an Amfleet II labeled 'first class lounge' I asked the Conductor what the hell we were hauling, cars bound for the WAS? And he told me he didn't know for sure about the Amfleet IIs were, but the first class lounge car was going to the AT.

I never seen a 'first class lounge', much less for a train that's nothing but Superliners. Care to explain that one Alan?

EDIT: Should mention that we were Eastbound out of CHI- and I was getting off, as my name would assume, at ALC.

 

[AlanB]

The other week when I was on the CL- we had a couple Amfleet IIs and an Amfleet II labeled 'first class lounge' I asked the Conductor what the hell we were hauling, cars bound for the WAS? And he told me he didn't know for sure about the Amfleet IIs were, but the first class lounge car was going to the AT.
I never seen a 'first class lounge', much less for a train that's nothing but Superliners. Care to explain that one Alan?

EDIT: Should mention that we were Eastbound out of CHI- and I was getting off, as my name would assume, at ALC.

I've nary a clue. In fact it makes no sense at all.

First off, AMF II's get repaired, inspected, and otherwise dealt with at the Bear shop in Delaware. So I've no idea whey they'd be coming east on the CL, as there is no services out of Chicago that use AMF II's other than the LSL and Cardinal, which already run east on their own.

Next, I've never heard of a AMF II "first class lounge.

Next, sending a single level car to the bi-level Auto Train makes no sense whatsoever. I can't imagine that the crews on the AT would be thrilled to have pax wandering through the trans dorm.

Finally, Amtrak barely has enough AMF II lounge cars to go around on all the routes that they have to cover. So I'm not sure how making one into a FC Lounge makes any sense.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

No, the AutoTrain has regular dining cars with regular dining service. No SDS in fact, so you get glass plates and glasses. The AT does have overflow seating in the lounge car, but they are still normal style tables with flowers and cloth table cloths, and you still get waiter/waitress service just like the regular dining car.

Only the sleeper class passengers get such service. The Coach-class diner is slimmed down, SDS minus, and generally unpleasant.

Well one can only smoke in a specially enclosed room in the lower level of the lounge car. That room has an automatic door that closes right behind anyone entering or exiting the room. The room itself has a fan that vents the smoke to the outside of the train.
Smoking is not permitted anyplace else within the train except for those special rooms in the two lounge cars.

The lounge cars still reek like smoke all over. You can't deny that. Its not that bad, but it's definitely present. I guess if you smoke, you wouldn't detect it as easily.

Ahh that explains it. So this is the enhanced Superliner lol... I got it.
The other week when I was on the CL- we had a couple Amfleet IIs and an Amfleet II labeled 'first class lounge' I asked the Conductor what the hell we were hauling, cars bound for the WAS? And he told me he didn't know for sure about the Amfleet IIs were, but the first class lounge car was going to the AT.

I never seen a 'first class lounge', much less for a train that's nothing but Superliners. Care to explain that one Alan?

EDIT: Should mention that we were Eastbound out of CHI- and I was getting off, as my name would assume, at ALC.

The person you talked to was ill-informed, BSing, or you misunderstood them. I've seen all three on Amtrak trains with frequency.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

The person you talked to was ill-informed, BSing, or you misunderstood them. I've seen all three on Amtrak trains with frequency.

I could accept all of that... except I saw a car clearly marked "first class lounge" it sort of looked like the endcap they put on the CL when the board members go to WAS- the exec car... Except it wasn't labeled like the others-- the spot where it would say "business class" "cafe" or such by the door said "first class lounge". The car wasn't named either- no name plate. I should have gotten the number, damn.

It was the last car on the train, followed by two standard Amfleet IIs and then the standard consist, I boarded in CHI- so I had plenty of time to get a good look at it.

The cars were hooked up and lit, but no people on board- and when I got off at ALC they were lit up like the moon still, and no people. I saw, clearly, two empty Amfleet IIs (coaches) and this exec. car...

If it wasn't the AT- then perhaps the Silver's? Maybe they needed it for those?

I have to ride the CL to go anywhere, so I'm pretty familiar with it. I think I've ridden her 16 times... and about half the time she's pulling something... usually empty exec cars, or some empty Amfleet IIs.

Anyway the Cardinal or LSL left behind a couple of the coaches and couldn't take them with them? Amfleet IIs appear a lot of times riding the CL's ass...

 

[Tony]

I've always wondered- with smoking on the AT- how the hell can anybody stand it? I mean... Superliners aren't known for having open windows, lol...

Just out of curiosity, does the AT have the longest non-stop route? I always wondered why Amtrak allowed smoking on the AT, and on no other, and was guessing that it was due to the AT going the longest distance without a station stop (and thus no smoking stops possible).

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I've always wondered- with smoking on the AT- how the hell can anybody stand it? I mean... Superliners aren't known for having open windows, lol...

Just out of curiosity, does the AT have the longest non-stop route? I always wondered why Amtrak allowed smoking on the AT, and on no other, and was guessing that it was due to the AT going the longest distance without a station stop (and thus no smoking stops possible).

There are no station stops- once you get on, you ain't getting off until Florida!

 

[AlanB]

I've always wondered- with smoking on the AT- how the hell can anybody stand it? I mean... Superliners aren't known for having open windows, lol...

Just out of curiosity, does the AT have the longest non-stop route? I always wondered why Amtrak allowed smoking on the AT, and on no other, and was guessing that it was due to the AT going the longest distance without a station stop (and thus no smoking stops possible).

There are no station stops- once you get on, you ain't getting off until Florida!

Correct. There are no passenger stops. The AT does make one stop however in the middle of the night for refueling, rewatering, and an operating crew change.

As for Amtrak allowing smoking on the AT, the AT like every other Amtrak train permitted smoking in the past. When the decision to eliminate smoking on all the other trains was made, only the AT was exempted from that decision. The two big differences that in effect "saved" smoking on the AT are the no stops and the fact that the smoker's lounge is in the cafe car. On the single level trains the lounge was also in the cafe car, although Amtrak had not finished building the enclosed lounge into all of the cafe cars by the time the decision was made to stop smoking. On the Superliners, the smokers lounge was downstairs in a coach. This caused a huge problem for people sensitive to smoke who were assigned to that car, or who just didn't like smelling any smoke at all.

It was this last issue, coupled with some smokers deciding that the room was too smoky and propping open the door, couples with a few other smokers who were just pigs (dropping cigs where ever, putting them out in cups/cans of soda that then spilt leaving a wonderful sticky mess), that caused Amtrak to ban smoking.

 

[Ispolkom]

As for Amtrak allowing smoking on the AT, the AT like every other Amtrak train permitted smoking in the past. When the decision to eliminate smoking on all the other trains was made, only the AT was exempted from that decision. The two big differences that in effect "saved" smoking on the AT are the no stops and the fact that the smoker's lounge is in the cafe car. On the single level trains the lounge was also in the cafe car, although Amtrak had not finished building the enclosed lounge into all of the cafe cars by the time the decision was made to stop smoking. On the Superliners, the smokers lounge was downstairs in a coach. This caused a huge problem for people sensitive to smoke who were assigned to that car, or who just didn't like smelling any smoke at all.

One morning I was in the diner on the Empire Builder eating breakfast with a various nice lady who complained about how poorly she had slept in coach. She complained about the smell of cigarette smoke and also "there was one man who snored all night long." I'm not so quick on the uptake before my coffee so I thought, "Hmm, I was in the coach with the smoking lounge, but I don't remember anybody snoring. . ." Suddenly realizing who the snorer was, I changed the subject.

Did Amtrak ever allow smoking in coaches? I remember smoking in the sightseer lounge long ago.

 

[AlanB]

The person you talked to was ill-informed, BSing, or you misunderstood them. I've seen all three on Amtrak trains with frequency.

I could accept all of that... except I saw a car clearly marked "first class lounge" it sort of looked like the endcap they put on the CL when the board members go to WAS- the exec car... Except it wasn't labeled like the others-- the spot where it would say "business class" "cafe" or such by the door said "first class lounge". The car wasn't named either- no name plate. I should have gotten the number, damn.

It was the last car on the train, followed by two standard Amfleet IIs and then the standard consist, I boarded in CHI- so I had plenty of time to get a good look at it.

The cars were hooked up and lit, but no people on board- and when I got off at ALC they were lit up like the moon still, and no people. I saw, clearly, two empty Amfleet IIs (coaches) and this exec. car...

If it wasn't the AT- then perhaps the Silver's? Maybe they needed it for those?

I have to ride the CL to go anywhere, so I'm pretty familiar with it. I think I've ridden her 16 times... and about half the time she's pulling something... usually empty exec cars, or some empty Amfleet IIs.

Anyway the Cardinal or LSL left behind a couple of the coaches and couldn't take them with them? Amfleet IIs appear a lot of times riding the CL's ass...

I do not doubt what you saw at all.

But that still doesn't mean that it makes sense. If the LSL left behind three BO'd coaches, it would be leaving Chicago with no coaches. And while I'm sure that Chicago has a few spare AMF II coaches, I still don't know why they'd be rotating so many at once.

Additionally I've gone through the last to full years, as well as this year's to date reports, and BEE doesn't do AMF I or II work. All that is done at Bear, so I'm not sure why there would be a need to routinely shuttle AMF II's between Chicago and WAS. AMF I's I could see being shuttled as they are rotated out of Chicago for inspections and servicing at Bear, since some of the short haul runs out of CHI do use AMF I's.

As for the First Class Lounge, I still have no idea on that, unless it was Beech Grove or the Corridor Clipper. But first those are AMF I's I believe and I can't imagine why either would have a sign saying "First Class Lounge." And if the car was destined for Silver Service, then it would really make more sense to have sent it to NYP so that it could be put into the consist of a Silver Service train. In DC, unless they were just going to position the car to Hialeah, you'd have to cut into the consist to put the car in a usable position. That's too much work for little benefit.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I do not doubt what you saw at all.
But that still doesn't mean that it makes sense. If the LSL left behind three BO'd coaches, it would be leaving Chicago with no coaches. And while I'm sure that Chicago has a few spare AMF II coaches, I still don't know why they'd be rotating so many at once.

Additionally I've gone through the last to full years, as well as this year's to date reports, and BEE doesn't do AMF I or II work. All that is done at Bear, so I'm not sure why there would be a need to routinely shuttle AMF II's between Chicago and WAS. AMF I's I could see being shuttled as they are rotated out of Chicago for inspections and servicing at Bear, since some of the short haul runs out of CHI do use AMF I's.

As for the First Class Lounge, I still have no idea on that, unless it was Beech Grove or the Corridor Clipper. But first those are AMF I's I believe and I can't imagine why either would have a sign saying "First Class Lounge." And if the car was destined for Silver Service, then it would really make more sense to have sent it to NYP so that it could be put into the consist of a Silver Service train. In DC, unless they were just going to position the car to Hialeah, you'd have to cut into the consist to put the car in a usable position. That's too much work for little benefit.

I'll grant that they could have been Amfleet Is, from my vantage point (standing on the platform) they had blue seats on the interior, so I assumed Amfleet II- but I could be mistaken on those- since I do see Amfleets on the CL being dragged to WAS on a regular basis. I'll chalk that one up to my mis-identification.

As for the Beech Grove, it wasn't. For one thing it didn't have the name plate. Secondly the end of the Beech Grove has that whistle stop style platform does it not? This did not have that style platform- it had an endcap on it- but the structure was entirely enclosed with chrome and glass- no place for somebody to stand on. I suppose it could have been the Beech Grove or Corridor Clipper *if* they had the nameplate removed, and put 'first class lounge' on her.

*Shrugs* if somebody kept tabs on those two cars During September, I could tell you. It was the Saturday, Sept. 6th Eastbound CL out of CHI.

Perhaps.. wild theory, wasn't the Beech Grove used during that Good Morning America stunt? I thoughg I saw one of the exec cars on the end of their special train gussied up with banners and ribbon-

 

[Tony]

Edit: Whoa, I was mostly right! http://library.duke.edu/digitalcollections...ess.T2486/pg.1/
It's possible Amtrak did serve hot food out of these for a time, I guess, but when I rode on them, they were just using them as a snack car. They're definitely not the same as the buffet diners.

Wow, those passengers look mighty happy and pleased with the cafeteria style dining.

 

[spacecadet]

Wow, those passengers look mighty happy and pleased with the cafeteria style dining.

Yeah I love old ads for train cars... everybody's always smiling and it's obvious that the artist has invented a story for everybody he's pictured in the ad. ("and this couple over here, well, they're both on their first trip away from home, and he's just suggested they go back to his bedroom for a little afternoon delight!") They're also always drawn from a vantage point that would have to be just a foot or two *outside* the walls of the car, to give it a more spacious appearance.

That angle showing the food service area, for example, would have to be drawn through the window to get that view. There was only about a 2 foot pathway between the counter and the wall.

 

[cpamtfan]

I do not doubt what you saw at all.
But that still doesn't mean that it makes sense. If the LSL left behind three BO'd coaches, it would be leaving Chicago with no coaches. And while I'm sure that Chicago has a few spare AMF II coaches, I still don't know why they'd be rotating so many at once.

Additionally I've gone through the last to full years, as well as this year's to date reports, and BEE doesn't do AMF I or II work. All that is done at Bear, so I'm not sure why there would be a need to routinely shuttle AMF II's between Chicago and WAS. AMF I's I could see being shuttled as they are rotated out of Chicago for inspections and servicing at Bear, since some of the short haul runs out of CHI do use AMF I's.

As for the First Class Lounge, I still have no idea on that, unless it was Beech Grove or the Corridor Clipper. But first those are AMF I's I believe and I can't imagine why either would have a sign saying "First Class Lounge." And if the car was destined for Silver Service, then it would really make more sense to have sent it to NYP so that it could be put into the consist of a Silver Service train. In DC, unless they were just going to position the car to Hialeah, you'd have to cut into the consist to put the car in a usable position. That's too much work for little benefit.

I'll grant that they could have been Amfleet Is, from my vantage point (standing on the platform) they had blue seats on the interior, so I assumed Amfleet II- but I could be mistaken on those- since I do see Amfleets on the CL being dragged to WAS on a regular basis. I'll chalk that one up to my mis-identification.

As for the Beech Grove, it wasn't. For one thing it didn't have the name plate. Secondly the end of the Beech Grove has that whistle stop style platform does it not? This did not have that style platform- it had an endcap on it- but the structure was entirely enclosed with chrome and glass- no place for somebody to stand on. I suppose it could have been the Beech Grove or Corridor Clipper *if* they had the nameplate removed, and put 'first class lounge' on her.

*Shrugs* if somebody kept tabs on those two cars During September, I could tell you. It was the Saturday, Sept. 6th Eastbound CL out of CHI.

Perhaps.. wild theory, wasn't the Beech Grove used during that Good Morning America stunt? I thoughg I saw one of the exec cars on the end of their special train gussied up with banners and ribbon-

I know what you saw! It was the formr Metroliner cabcar, # 9800, that was turned into a conference car for Metroliner Service in '93. The enclosed room was the former cab, but has been de-motered. I saw a picture somewhere of it and it read "First Class Lounge"! But something doesn't seem right, though. The pictures I saw of the interior were red and beige? Maybe it was refurbished recently.

cpamtfan-Peter

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I do not doubt what you saw at all.
But that still doesn't mean that it makes sense. If the LSL left behind three BO'd coaches, it would be leaving Chicago with no coaches. And while I'm sure that Chicago has a few spare AMF II coaches, I still don't know why they'd be rotating so many at once.

Additionally I've gone through the last to full years, as well as this year's to date reports, and BEE doesn't do AMF I or II work. All that is done at Bear, so I'm not sure why there would be a need to routinely shuttle AMF II's between Chicago and WAS. AMF I's I could see being shuttled as they are rotated out of Chicago for inspections and servicing at Bear, since some of the short haul runs out of CHI do use AMF I's.

As for the First Class Lounge, I still have no idea on that, unless it was Beech Grove or the Corridor Clipper. But first those are AMF I's I believe and I can't imagine why either would have a sign saying "First Class Lounge." And if the car was destined for Silver Service, then it would really make more sense to have sent it to NYP so that it could be put into the consist of a Silver Service train. In DC, unless they were just going to position the car to Hialeah, you'd have to cut into the consist to put the car in a usable position. That's too much work for little benefit.

I'll grant that they could have been Amfleet Is, from my vantage point (standing on the platform) they had blue seats on the interior, so I assumed Amfleet II- but I could be mistaken on those- since I do see Amfleets on the CL being dragged to WAS on a regular basis. I'll chalk that one up to my mis-identification.

As for the Beech Grove, it wasn't. For one thing it didn't have the name plate. Secondly the end of the Beech Grove has that whistle stop style platform does it not? This did not have that style platform- it had an endcap on it- but the structure was entirely enclosed with chrome and glass- no place for somebody to stand on. I suppose it could have been the Beech Grove or Corridor Clipper *if* they had the nameplate removed, and put 'first class lounge' on her.

*Shrugs* if somebody kept tabs on those two cars During September, I could tell you. It was the Saturday, Sept. 6th Eastbound CL out of CHI.

Perhaps.. wild theory, wasn't the Beech Grove used during that Good Morning America stunt? I thoughg I saw one of the exec cars on the end of their special train gussied up with banners and ribbon-

I know what you saw! It was the formr Metroliner cabcar, # 9800, that was turned into a conference car for Metroliner Service in '93. The enclosed room was the former cab, but has been de-motered. I saw a picture somewhere of it and it read "First Class Lounge"! But something doesn't seem right, though. The pictures I saw of the interior were red and beige? Maybe it was refurbished recently.

cpamtfan-Peter

That may be it! It looked like a cab car, but it wasn't wasp striped on the end!

Now this raises two questions- if this is our weird car, why was it stuck to the CL's ass? And where was it headed?

Is 9800 still its number?