OH I Wish There Was a Shortcut to Atlanta!

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It also would cut downtown crossings down too and end train delays on USCs campus so likely it would do more good then just Amtrak.
 
The state of South Carolina will never spend a dollar on passenger train service. Only chance for this to happen is if the cities decide to spend money, and that seems unlikely.
 
neroden said:
The state of South Carolina will never spend a dollar on passenger train service. Only chance for this to happen is if the cities decide to spend money, and that seems unlikely.
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LOL. I wasn't thinking that South Carolina would get over the Confederacy disease when it's only been 150 years.

I was thinking the Union won the War. So when the next recession comes along, they always do, another Stimulus could pay 100% of some national infrastructure projects again.

Probably couldn't be the next time, so maybe the next. Nobody is ready. No environmental studies, no Record of Decision. I wonder if they even have a railroad map in the state capitol.

But one of these days.
 
Considering Delta has such a large presence in ATL, and American in CLT, why not just fly? It'd be way quicker than taking the train.
 
One thing I always thought would be an interesting proposal. Would be to let planes take the long haul routes only. And let them cut the regional routes that they don't really want. And in place of the regional routes the airlines don't want make it a corridor for trains. Which would have intermediate stops enroute. It would cater to the rural to city market, minor city to hub city and help the long distance network of trains out. So for instance shut the Columbia sc airport down and run trains to Charlotte and Atlanta to replace the shuttle airlines. Which also will allow Augusta airport to close.
 
Groundpounder said:
Considering Delta has such a large presence in ATL, and American in CLT, why not just fly? It'd be way quicker than taking the train.
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Who just committed blasphemy? ;)
 
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A Voice said:
Groundpounder said:
Considering Delta has such a large presence in ATL, and American in CLT, why not just fly? It'd be way quicker than taking the train.
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Well, for one thing, this is the Amtrak Unlimited forum, not Flyertalk.
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As someone who lived in Atlanta for 8 years and frequented ATL for business travel, I wished many times there was a high speed rail alternative from Atlanta to other cities in the Southeast. I have been stuck at ATL when it pure gridlock with planes waiting on the tarmac for gates that weren't available. Now that I no longer live in the Southeast, I will do anything to avoid flying through ATL. I have many business acquaintances that do the same thing.
 
As the old saying went, if you wanted to fly anywhere on Delta, you had to go through Atlanta. Except for Hell, which was an Eastern flight...
 
Seaboard92 said:
One thing I always thought would be an interesting proposal. Would be to let planes take the long haul routes only. And let them cut the regional routes that they don't really want. And in place of the regional routes the airlines don't want make it a corridor for trains. Which would have intermediate stops enroute. It would cater to the rural to city market, minor city to hub city and help the long distance network of trains out. So for instance shut the Columbia sc airport down and run trains to Charlotte and Atlanta to replace the shuttle airlines. Which also will allow Augusta airport to close.
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I have also been of the same opinion. I have read in the past that half the landings and takeoffs at major airports like Charlotte and Atlanta are from nearby feeder cities. That would mean much reduced terminal air traffic if these could be eliminated and much improved air service when problems occur. For example multiple rail journeys from Atlanta airport to Greenville/Spartanburg to Charlotte would not only allow travelers to go from the intermediate cities to either of the hubs but if, say, Atlanta had a major problem caused by weather or runway/terminal problems, travelers could be sent to Charlotte to fly from there.

There are so many cities that really don't need airports such as Macon, my nearby Asheville, Greenville, Columbia, etc.

One caveat: the rail service has to be done properly

Transportation to the hub airport not just to downtown without transferring to local transportation for the last few miles.

Sufficient trains spread over the day

Transportation to two or more hubs.

Fast, efficient train service (HSR NOT required) with good on-time performance.

Efficient way for travelers to move baggage, get through security, etc.
 
Fly ATL - CLT ? Bad idea if there is an alternative. For any person living in an arc from NW of Atlanta to east of Atlanta going to the airport is ridiculous. Many times of day must plan 2 hours drive to airport, TSA 1-/2 hours, flight 1 hour. Now a train station in Chamblee and 90 MPH average to CLT downtown much better. Of course driving now is first and only choice.

Unless pilot experience requirements are changed short haul flights are going to slowly disappear as not enough flight crew members will be available.
 
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I think it would work relatively simple. Of course another thing that would need to be added is codeshare agreements with Amtrak or another train operator and the airline. Let's take our Charlotte and Atlanta idea. That gets Gainesville, Toccoa, Clemson, Greenville, Spartanburg, Gastonia, and Charlotte. The mainline is right by the airport. And they just built a yard in the airport. So it's really quite simple to get a station added there.
 
There are 101 reasons why Atlanta-Savannah has never restarted. I was at the former Terminal Station site when Amtrak ran a demo train Atlanta-Savannah in 1980! Believe I still have the newspaper clipping.

The SEHSR plan for Atlanta-Savannah calls for use of the ex-Southern from Macon to Jesup, then splitting to serve Savannah or Jacksonville over ex-ACL. I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime, and I don't plan to knock off anytime soon.

As for Chicago-Atlanta-Florida, the barriers are so numerous that it's difficult to imagine they will ever be overcome.

NC legislators couldn't care less about Charlotte-Columbia-Florida, Likewise SC legislators. Waste of time to think about it. You might get a little more interest in a day train that reaches Atlanta, but then you're back to the station problem in Atlanta.
 
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A new station at ATL ( Chamblee ) would make a day train ATL - CLT - RGH - RVR - WASH - NYP fairly simple. The main requirement will be the 20 cars and 4 locos needed. Any downtown station in Atlanta gets back to the major problem of Howell diamonds / Interlocking. This is not a high speed set like Rochelle as many routes are 10 MPH. Also there are unconfirmed reports that CSX is considering to run longer DPU trains from the south.
 
west point said:
A new station at ATL ( Chamblee ) would make a day train ATL - CLT - RGH - RVR - WASH - NYP fairly simple. The main requirement will be the 20 cars and 4 locos needed. Any downtown station in Atlanta gets back to the major problem of Howell diamonds / Interlocking. This is not a high speed set like Rochelle as many routes are 10 MPH. Also there are unconfirmed reports that CSX is considering to run longer DPU trains from the south.
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A downtown station is dead for several reasons, not the least of which a 20 or 30 minute backup move in or out from the NS main line.
 
west point said:
A new station at ATL ( Chamblee ) would make a day train ATL - CLT - RGH - RVR - WASH - NYP fairly simple. The main requirement will be the 20 cars and 4 locos needed. Any downtown station in Atlanta gets back to the major problem of Howell diamonds / Interlocking. This is not a high speed set like Rochelle as many routes are 10 MPH. Also there are unconfirmed reports that CSX is considering to run longer DPU trains from the south.
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Why would it need 20 cars and four locos? If you have a six car train I can see the 20 cars assuming three consists are needed, plus a couple of protect cars. But since the diesel locos have to only do an ATL - WAS turn and only one would be needed per train there should be no need for more than two, with maybe one spare. But the spare could be handled from a pool.
 
xyzzy said:
There are 101 reasons why Atlanta-Savannah has never restarted. I was at the former Terminal Station site when Amtrak ran a demo train Atlanta-Savannah in 1980! Believe I still have the newspaper clipping.

The SEHSR plan for Atlanta-Savannah calls for use of the ex-Southern from Macon to Jesup, then splitting to serve Savannah or Jacksonville over ex-ACL. I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime, and I don't plan to knock off anytime soon.

As for Chicago-Atlanta-Florida, the barriers are so numerous that it's difficult to imagine they will ever be overcome.

NC legislators couldn't care less about Charlotte-Columbia-Florida, Likewise SC legislators. Waste of time to think about it. You might get a little more interest in a day train that reaches Atlanta, but then you're back to the station problem in Atlanta.
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Do a search for Chicago-to-Florida and "Travel to Florida" threads. George Harris has gone into some detail about the specifics of the routes between TN and GA. In order to make this viable, one would have to do a considerable amount of track capacity upgrades and tunneling. For example: http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/24943-travel-to-florida/?hl=Chicago+Florida
 
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Track capacity between Chattanooga and Atlanta (on either CSX or NS) is one problem, but it's not the only one. Both CSX and NS have very busy lines north of Chattanooga, too. Then there's a question of a station site in Atlanta. NS will not allow another train to use the existing station. If you build a station in the Chamblee vicinity, it's convenient for the Crescent but a killer for a Chicago-Florida train. If you build a station in downtown, it's convenient for a Chicago-Florida train but a killer for the Crescent. Choose your poison. Finally, trackage south of Atlanta is not assured either.
 
xyzzy said:
Track capacity between Chattanooga and Atlanta (on either CSX or NS) is one problem, but it's not the only one. Both CSX and NS have very busy lines north of Chattanooga, too. Then there's a question of a station site in Atlanta. NS will not allow another train to use the existing station. If you build a station in the Chamblee vicinity, it's convenient for the Crescent but a killer for a Chicago-Florida train. If you build a station in downtown, it's convenient for a Chicago-Florida train but a killer for the Crescent. Choose your poison. Finally, trackage south of Atlanta is not assured either.
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I think the downtown (Five Points) station is a better idea due to its location. While it would be off the Crescent's route, there is a wye right next to the station so only a short back up move would be required. I would rather inconvenience the established Crescent that isn't going anywhere than a future Amtrak or commuter rail route that may not get built without it. I walked by there a couple of weeks ago and it is essentially a bunch of parking lots right next to MARTA's main station and in the middle of downtown Atlanta. If someone is willing to fund it, likely only these parking lots would be destroyed. There has also been talk of a new parking garage to replace all these spots.

By building the suburban Doraville station, you are essentially giving up hope of any future Amtrak or commuter route not coming from Gainesville.
 
brianpmcdonnell17 said:
xyzzy said:
Track capacity between Chattanooga and Atlanta (on either CSX or NS) is one problem, but it's not the only one. Both CSX and NS have very busy lines north of Chattanooga, too. Then there's a question of a station site in Atlanta. NS will not allow another train to use the existing station. If you build a station in the Chamblee vicinity, it's convenient for the Crescent but a killer for a Chicago-Florida train. If you build a station in downtown, it's convenient for a Chicago-Florida train but a killer for the Crescent. Choose your poison. Finally, trackage south of Atlanta is not assured either.
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I think the downtown (Five Points) station is a better idea due to its location. While it would be off the Crescent's route, there is a wye right next to the station so only a short back up move would be required. I would rather inconvenience the established Crescent that isn't going anywhere than a future Amtrak or commuter rail route that may not get built without it. I walked by there a couple of weeks ago and it is essentially a bunch of parking lots right next to MARTA's main station and in the middle of downtown Atlanta. If someone is willing to fund it, likely only these parking lots would be destroyed. There has also been talk of a new parking garage to replace all these spots.

By building the suburban Doraville station, you are essentially giving up hope of any future Amtrak or commuter route not coming from Gainesville.
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The backup move would add 20 or 30 minutes to the Crescent schedule, which is why Amtrak is not interested in a downtown station. And, funding is a huge issue. GDOT won't, Amtrak won't and that doesn't leave anybody else.
 
GaSteve said:
brianpmcdonnell17 said:
xyzzy said:
Track capacity between Chattanooga and Atlanta (on either CSX or NS) is one problem, but it's not the only one. Both CSX and NS have very busy lines north of Chattanooga, too. Then there's a question of a station site in Atlanta. NS will not allow another train to use the existing station. If you build a station in the Chamblee vicinity, it's convenient for the Crescent but a killer for a Chicago-Florida train. If you build a station in downtown, it's convenient for a Chicago-Florida train but a killer for the Crescent. Choose your poison. Finally, trackage south of Atlanta is not assured either.
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I think the downtown (Five Points) station is a better idea due to its location. While it would be off the Crescent's route, there is a wye right next to the station so only a short back up move would be required. I would rather inconvenience the established Crescent that isn't going anywhere than a future Amtrak or commuter rail route that may not get built without it. I walked by there a couple of weeks ago and it is essentially a bunch of parking lots right next to MARTA's main station and in the middle of downtown Atlanta. If someone is willing to fund it, likely only these parking lots would be destroyed. There has also been talk of a new parking garage to replace all these spots.By building the suburban Doraville station, you are essentially giving up hope of any future Amtrak or commuter route not coming from Gainesville.
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The backup move would add 20 or 30 minutes to the Crescent schedule, which is why Amtrak is not interested in a downtown station. And, funding is a huge issue. GDOT won't, Amtrak won't and that doesn't leave anybody else.
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I agree that funding is a major issue; I just think that if funding did eventually become available then downtown would be the better location. In my experience, most people coming from the north on the Crescent get off in Atlanta and a high percentage of people traveling south of ATL got on there, so even 30 minutes would disrupt a relatively small number of people. The Silver Star travels two hours out of it's way to serve Tampa, and Atlanta is a much larger city and offers heavy rail connections downtown that Tampa does not.
 
The backup move doesn't sound like a big deal, but Southern couldn't wait to eliminate it in 1970 when the Southern Crescent (as it was then known) quit calling at Terminal Station. Howell can be very congested. Worse, one of the two tracks that used to run the east side of the wye has been removed. And if you put the station on the CSX side of the Howell-downtown connector where there is more real estate available, you have a second RR dispatcher to deal with.

Downtown Atlanta hasn't been the geographical center of population of metro Atlanta for a long time. Metro has grown disproportionately to the north and northeast. The Chamblee/Doraville site makes a lot of sense, particularly given that the City of Atlanta and Fulton County governments haven't made much of a contribution over the years to this situation. They had their chance when the plan for a new station at Atlantic Steel fell apart.
 
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