News on daily Sunset (incl older east of NOL discussion)
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fixj
Service Attendant
Just noticed this on Facebook regarding the inspection train. Saw it had V1 diner 8400 and V New River in the consist. I plan to watch this go thourgh Chipley tomorrow.
http://www.al.com/news/mobile/index.ssf/2016/02/after_10_years_amtrak_returns.html#incart_river_home
http://www.al.com/news/mobile/index.ssf/2016/02/after_10_years_amtrak_returns.html#incart_river_home
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Hey that Viewliner Diner (8400) looks really nice. I haven't seen it before. Is it new? To my knowledge they don't generally use that type of diner on Single Level trains.
It's the prototype for the VII's. It's been in service on the single level trains for at least a couple of years. It just came out of Beech Grove after getting the new paint scheme and perhaps some maintenance.
Ah okay. That makes sense. Thanks!
neroden
Engineer
Wow. The crowds in Bay St. Louis, Gulfport, Biloxi, Pascagoula, and Mobile are pretty impressive. (I have said before that these cities really REALLY want train service.)
I guess tomorrow we see what the crowds are like in Atmore and in Florida.
...apparently Ocean Springs wants a stop and had a party too, even though the inspection train went by without stopping. Seems reasonable to me.
http://www.sunherald.com/news/business/article60707071.html
Tomorrow's schedule:
Feb. 19 (all times local)
Pensacola, 7:30 a.m. media availability, 7:50 a.m. event; 8:00 a.m. departure
Crestview, 9:10 a.m. arrival; 9:20 a.m. departure
Chipley, 10:50 a.m. arrival; 11:00 a.m. departure
Tallahassee, 2:37 p.m. arrival; 2:47 p.m. departure
Madison, 4:14 p.m. arrival; 4:24 p.m. departure
Lake City, 5:25 p.m. arrival; 5:35 p.m. departure
Jacksonville, community event begins prior to 7:15 p.m. arrival
( http://ricksblog.biz/amtrak-lays-out-southern-rail-commission-tour-schedule/ )
I haven't seen any reports of turnout in Atmore, though.
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fixj
Service Attendant
I'll be in Chipley tomorrow and will film and video what I can.
Facebook video of fire trucks greeting the special as it arrives in Atmore, Alabama.
fixj
Service Attendant
Another update from Facebook
http://www.wlox.com/story/31255266/hundreds-of-south-mississippians-turn-out-to-welcome-amtrak
http://www.wlox.com/story/31255266/hundreds-of-south-mississippians-turn-out-to-welcome-amtrak
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
Any chance that what's left of the Sunset Limited gets dragged into a tug of war over limited resources between East and West halves of the country? Kind of like how the Southwest Chief was nearly dragged into a tug of war between Colorado and New Mexico?
Hah that's an interesting thought.. I don't know.. I'm just content on waiting for a bit and seeing what happens.
neroden
Engineer
Okay, so the cost of "option A1" is about 5.48 million per year. We already have *six*, count them, six cities on the route which came out with massive shows to cheerlead for the return of train service. (I'm including Ocean Springs but not Atmore; the fire trucks are nice but they didn't manage to pull a crowd of dozens-to-hundreds, like the others.) If similar support can be found in the next six cities, that's 12 cities to divide up the costs.
If they divided it 12 ways, $457,000 per year is quite a lot for a small city... but honestly, I think any of these cities could do it. If they divided the cost up by city population it would be even more evidently affordable. The cities may not need the state governments to get this up and running. Which would be good because the state governments, of course, are the problem.
If they divided it 12 ways, $457,000 per year is quite a lot for a small city... but honestly, I think any of these cities could do it. If they divided the cost up by city population it would be even more evidently affordable. The cities may not need the state governments to get this up and running. Which would be good because the state governments, of course, are the problem.
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WoodyinNYC
Conductor
A lot has changed on the ground since the $750 million demand. UP didn't get any money from Amtrak. But the UP did agree to a rescheduling to speed up the train, by about 9 hrs iirc. That allowed a good connections with the Coast Starlight at L.A. It gave overnight times to/from L.A. and Maricopa (Phoenix), and Tucson. The new schedule also reduced the waiting time in SAS to make the Texas Eagle connections. It also let Amtrak remove one set of equipment and send the cars to the Capitol Ltd, greatly improving that train. That was not a bad compromise.
Meanwhile, the UP has spent hundreds of millions of its own money to double-track almost all the route from El Paso to L.A. It won't need $750 million from somebody else to do it, the UP did it.
Here's a signal that daily is coming: A 2015 TIGER grant will help pay for new station and platform, new station tracks, and a grade-separated crossing in Maricopa that will get the stopped Amtrak trains out of the way of the UP's passing freights.
As soon as the new bi-levels start replacing Superliners in California and the Midwest, Amtrak will be able to scrounge up enuff extra equipment for a daily Sunset/Eagle. Fearless forecast: Daily service should begin in FY 2018.
WoodyinNYC
Conductor
Great video from local news and great pix.
The Republican Governor of Mississippi on board, along with one of the state's Republican Senators, to their great credit. Plus every mayor along the way.
Devil's Advocate
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I'd say it was a bad compromise if you start or end your trips in SAS, which probably doesn't mean anything to Amtrak, but I have a similar feeling about LAUS, which in my view should be the number one scheduling consideration for the entire route.
While that is indeed true, it is also true that Union Pacific is under no obligation to renegotiate in good faith or even to negotiate at all. They can simply name an absurdly high price and walk away with no practical recourse for Amtrak, as we've already seen. We all know that UP didn't have a legitimate reason to expect $750 million from Amtrak the last time they demanded it and they won't have a legitimate reason the next time they demand it.
Unfortunately they also have no reason to refrain from demanding it. After all, there are another thousand miles of UP trackage on the SL route that have yet to be double tracked courtesy of the American taxpayer. When it comes to Amtrak, Union Pacific has no reason to be reasonable. They can call the shots however they like and there's nothing Amtrak can do about it besides pay up or walk out. Which is why Amtrak is probably going to need some help from folks with a bigger stick or more carrots.
I don't disagree that these are positive developments but I also don't see either of them addressing the primary impediment.
UP does have a reason to negotiate, at least insofar as if they can increase the capacity of the route by at least one train beyond the net need of the Daily Sunset they derive a gain. That doesn't mean they need to be "reasonable"...but it does suggest that they have a reason to not give a "blow off" offer.
Dovecote
OBS Chief
I agree with your thoughts on the lack of financial participation by Florida. The Tallahassee mayor earlier this week was quoted as saying "
"We're not anticipating the local government will have to contribute anything," Mayor Andrew Gillum said. "I mean we contribute to the federal government vis a vis our taxes. We fully anticipate the federal government will again in this case put forth the appropriate subsidies to keep passenger line traffic operational in this part of the country."
Here is the link http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/Officials-Consider-new-Orleans-to-Orlando-Rail-Service-Tallahassee-Among-Stops-366672141.html
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Hytec
Lead Service Attendant
I ate in 8400 about 20 years ago when it was assigned to the Crescent. The larger main windows and upper windows made it feel more open and friendly than heritage diners. I was disappointed that Amtrak didn't have the funding to manufacture a fleet of this design.
Or just the lack of willingness to fund this project.
cirdan
Engineer
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Furthermore, big corporations like UP understand the need to be seen to be a good corporate citizen, to be making a positive contribution.
They could book the entire costs of accomodating Amtrak onto the goodwill and PR budget. If Amtrak wants to even pay anything extra for the pleasure, then of course they shouldn't say no.
UP seems to understand the value of PR, otherwise they wouldn't be restoring the Big Boy and running their steam program. So it seems incongruent to me that they should be stonewalling Amtrak.
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jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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FDOT seems to have had this long standing policy that they would be willing to chip in upto 40% of the cost provided farebox or something else cover 60%. The original Silver Palm intra-Florida service was funded for a few years with the Feds and farebox covering the rest. When the feds money went away FDOT canceled the train instead of picking up the balance of the subsidy that was covered by the Feds.
Now admittedly that was in the era of a different Governor, and this Governor will depart one of these days. So there is a possibility of pointing the precedent and getting FDOT to consider adding this sort of a thing to their budget. But under the wheeler and dealer that we have running our state at this moment, I don't see that happening unless there is some way that he and his cronies can be able to pocket part of the subsidy or some additional business resulting from that. It is actually quite simple understanding what does or does not work in Florida.
Now admittedly that was in the era of a different Governor, and this Governor will depart one of these days. So there is a possibility of pointing the precedent and getting FDOT to consider adding this sort of a thing to their budget. But under the wheeler and dealer that we have running our state at this moment, I don't see that happening unless there is some way that he and his cronies can be able to pocket part of the subsidy or some additional business resulting from that. It is actually quite simple understanding what does or does not work in Florida.
fixj
Service Attendant
Here is a video I took of the Amtrak inspection train arrving today at Chipley, FL. I was using a still camera tripod so there is a bit of shake.
west point
Engineer
Can you imagine ? Needed two locos to power the train ? Guess a single loco that failed would have been very embarrassing to JOE ! Was that a Bag-Dorm in the consist ?
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