New Amtrak Cancellation/Refund Policy

[PRR 60]

I am totally confused. I have previously purchased tickets coach HFD to WAS return in August which were paid for. Then Chi to Orlando/return in September on points. If I have to change or cancel either of these what happens? If I plan my February 2013 trip now (on points) and have to change it what happens?

At least for now, the ability to cancel your Chicago to Orlando trip and get your points back is unchanged. If you have sleeper accommodations, you can get all your points as long as you cancel prior to scheduled departure. That is my assumption since changes have not been announced for AGR reservations. To be sure, you might want to call AGR and check.

For your paid Hartford to Washington trip, I assume you are using reserved coach. You can cancel that trip up to 24 hours before departure and get a full refund. If you after 24 hours prior to departure but before the scheduled departure, your refund is subject to a 10% refund fee ($5 minimum, $100 maximum). You can also get full credit toward future travel.

 

[PRR 60]

A heads up based on a posting at Flyertalk.

The special, 14-day advance purchase NEC fares are now 100% non-refundable from the moment of purchase. Previously you could get a refund as long as you did not print your ticket. Now, when you go to cancel one of these special discount fare reservations, your only choice is a non-refundable credit voucher. A refund is not offered.

When this fare is available for a particular date and train, Amtrak.com offers it as the only option. There is no prominent mention of the special terms of this fare. I can see the possibility of someone booking this fare not even knowing it is a special, non-refundable fare and getting a big surprise if the need to cancel.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

A heads up based on a posting at Flyertalk. The special, 14-day advance purchase NEC fares are now 100% non-refundable from the moment of purchase. Previously you could get a refund as long as you did not print your ticket. Now, when you go to cancel one of these special discount fare reservations, your only choice is a non-refundable credit voucher. A refund is not offered. When this fare is available for a particular date and train, Amtrak.com offers it as the only option. There is no prominent mention of the special terms of this fare. I can see the possibility of someone booking this fare not even knowing it is a special, non-refundable fare and getting a big surprise if the need to cancel.

Amtrak is still not quite at the level of restricted ticking US airlines employ, but I think it's becoming more and more clear that's the direction they're intending to move toward. Should be interesting to see if all these changes have any impact on their customer numbers and/or on their bottom line.

 

[gregoryla]

Amtrak is now uniformly worse than airlines when it comes to Sleepers which are the highest fare service. Most airlines will refund such a fare 100% with no cancellation fee.

Wow, based on my experience with airlines, the new Amtrak policy is still much more relaxed. Southwest will give credit towards a future flight, but all the other airlines I fly charge hefty fees for even the slightest change in itinerary and none will refund the fare.

 

[PRR 60]

Amtrak is now uniformly worse than airlines when it comes to Sleepers which are the highest fare service. Most airlines will refund such a fare 100% with no cancellation fee.

Wow, based on my experience with airlines, the new Amtrak policy is still much more relaxed. Southwest will give credit towards a future flight, but all the other airlines I fly charge hefty fees for even the slightest change in itinerary and none will refund the fare.

You're correct with regard to airline coach travel, but jis is comparing Amtrak Sleeper service, a premium service, to airline First Class. While some airlines have non-refundable First Class fares, fully refundable First Class fares are far more common and can be booked as desired. Despite being a premium service class, Amtrak now does not offer a fully refundable Sleeper fare regardless of the fare bucket purchased.

 

[Allypet]

Having just booked an AT trip and reading the new refund policy I think sleeper passengers are treated much worse then coach passengers. Here is my reasoning. The other day I I booked 5 passengers and 2 rooms along with a vehicle on the AT, and if I cancel less then 15 days I will suffer worse then a coach passenger booked at the same time, (and depending on the bucket maybe the same price)! Here is some info from the Amtrak website:

Sleeper Travel: If canceled 15 or more days before travel, refund fee applies. If canceled 14 days or fewer before travel, but before actual travel, ticket is not refundable but the value may be applied within one year toward future travel. If not canceled before departure ("no show"), entire amount is forfeited.

Reserved Coach and Acela Express Business Class: If canceled more than 24 hours before scheduled departure, full refund. If canceled within 24 hours of departure or not canceled, refund fee applies.

Vehicles (Automobile, Van, Motorcycle, Bicycle) and Carry-on Fees (Golf Bags, etc.): The refund policy is that of the passenger ticket with which the vehicle or carry-on fee ticket is associated. Example: Sleeper and automobile on Auto Train. The sleeper refund policy also applies to the automobile ticket.

So here is a quick chart of possible cancellations;

.......................................................................................... Sleeper on AT..................................... Reserved Coach on AT

Canceled more then 15 days.................................................10% penalty...............................................10% penalty

Canceled between 1 and 14 days............................................no refund, voucher only..............................10% penalty

Canceled less then 24 hours................................................. no refund, voucher only................................10% penalty

Not canceled at all (no show)..................................................100% forfeit................................................10% penalty

Plus what ever amount paid for the auto to travel is governed by the type of accommodation, so a coach passenger on the AT can get a auto refund less then 15 days, but a higher priced sleeper can't!

A coach passenger on the AT can ALWAYS get a cash refund, while a sleeper passenger most times can't.

 

[Aaron]

Having just booked an AT trip and reading the new refund policy I think sleeper passengers are treated much worse then coach passengers.

Considering that there is a much lower inventory of sleeper space available and each space in that inventory sells for a lot more than a coach space, it makes sense that Amtrak would want to provide a disincentive to cancellation of these spaces. It's far easier for them to sell another coach seat last minute than another sleeper space.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Having just booked an AT trip and reading the new refund policy I think sleeper passengers are treated much worse then coach passengers.

It's far easier for [Amtrak] to sell another coach seat last minute than another sleeper space.

Source?

 

[Rail Freak]

Wow, based on my experience with airlines, the new Amtrak policy is still much more relaxed. Southwest will give credit towards a future flight, but all the other airlines I fly charge hefty fees for even the slightest change in itinerary and none will refund the fare.

I had a reservation from Seattle to Yakima on Alaska Air. They wanted to charge me $100 for a change. The original ticket was only $71!!!

 

[Aaron]

Having just booked an AT trip and reading the new refund policy I think sleeper passengers are treated much worse then coach passengers.

It's far easier for [Amtrak] to sell another coach seat last minute than another sleeper space.

Source?

My posterior, mainly.

I don't have a real source but instead formulated a hypothesis based on my assumptions of everything from Amtrak riders' preferences to Amtrak yield management strategies to observations of the way other businesses run things. To use an exaggerated example, consider a busy restaurant that has an attached banquet room that they use for wedding receptions and the like. It's likely that if you make a reservation there and then cancel last minute or no show, you won't face any repercussions nor be asked to back up your reservation with a deposit or anything. They might be mildly annoyed, but they have many seats at many tables, and the table that was to be used for you will probably be used by someone else. However, if you want to reserve the banquet room, you'll be more likely to have to put up a deposit or something, because while you have it reserved, the restaurant has to turn away any other potential customer who wants it for the same evening. If you then cancel at the last minute, they're less likely to be able to fill that space because not only do they have a smaller inventory of banquet rooms, you've got a smaller pool of potential customers to sell it to since it costs so much more to rent the room than just eating at a table at the restaurant.

Another example: I like to cruise a lot. A lot of lines have a different deposit policy or cancellation policy for the higher end suites than for the majority of staterooms. Same principle applies. There are fewer of them, they cost a lot more, once they're booked the line has to turn away potential customers, upon a last minute cancellation they have to scramble to find someone willing to pay the extra. Sometimes they can and sometimes they end up discounting heavily just to fill it. They'd rather not have to discount, so once they've landed a paying reservation, they use policy to try to keep it.

I don't know whether sleeper passengers are less likely to consider a last minute trip than coach passengers, but that could play into it as well. Of course the Auto Train could have a different ratio of planners vs procrastinators than the rest of the system, but I would think the other principles still apply equally well there.

So, no hard source, but there's my justification for my position. Let it be known by anyone else reading my earlier contribution to this thread that my views are purely conjecture, represent my own opinion, and perhaps bear no similarity to reality. That said, if you or anyone else has any information, sourced or otherwise, that contradicts my position, I'd love to hear it!

 

[Train2104]

In my opinion, no shows should forfeit the entire fare, no vouchers.

 

[acelafan]

In my opinion, no shows should forfeit the entire fare, no vouchers.

I understand where you are coming from, but I think you need to give people some benefit of doubt; if I was unable to get in touch with Amtrak for whatever reason to cancel my trip at the very last minute I wouldn't want to be treated that way and forfeit my entire fare. Perhaps a penalty is in order but full forfeit is a little harsh. Occasionally emergencies do happen.

 

[amamba]

In my opinion, no shows should forfeit the entire fare, no vouchers.

Considering that some tickets are auto-canceling future segments when they aren't scanned properly (yet pax are on train), this is a terrible idea.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

In my opinion, no shows should forfeit the entire fare, no vouchers.

I understand where you are coming from, but I think you need to give people some benefit of doubt; if I was unable to get in touch with Amtrak for whatever reason to cancel my trip at the very last minute I wouldn't want to be treated that way and forfeit my entire fare. Perhaps a penalty is in order but full forfeit is a little harsh. Occasionally emergencies do happen.

I don't understand where he's coming from at all. Nor has he bothered to explain it. Maybe we're supposed to read his thoughts? Kind of reminds me of a time I was selected for jury duty. This one juror wanted to throw the book at the defendant, who was indeed guilty so far as any of us could tell, but this particular juror couldn't be bothered to come up with a coherent explanation for why the penalty should be the absolute maximum possible amount. So we moved on to the rest of the jurors and eventually settled on a more moderate approach that resulted in a penalty that was more in line with our understanding of the events as they took place and the scope of the law that governed them. Amtrak was very lenient in the past, but full forfeiture would be a serious overreaction and a major miscalculation in my book. Not to mention that Amtrak has spent decades conditioning us to expect easy refunds and pain-free modifications. This may have won them more business in the past, but the more options they take away and the more fees they add the less incentive there will be for future converts.

 

[Joel]

So then, if i cancel a reservation through the website, how long does it take to get my money back to the credit card?

 

[amamba]

So then, if i cancel a reservation through the website, how long does it take to get my money back to the credit card?

Generally 72 hours-ish. I think officially it is 3-5 days.

 

[JackieTakestheTrain]

Hi..I would like to offer a comment and then a question...

I am really sad that Amtrak had decided to charge sleeping car passengers for cancellations, even though I understand perfectly why they are doing so. One of the reasons I have always been drawn to Amtrak travel was because it was more flexible than airlines.

So here's my question: Does anyone know if the bucket pricing system changed and if it is possible to still buy a sleeper onboard a train if a sleeper is available (and, of course, if the conductor wants to bothered to sell it to you?)

I am trying to figure out if it is better for me, in certain situations, to wait a bit closer to the time I acually travel and buy a sleeper, which more than likely will mean I will pay substantially more for it than if I bought it earlier (I know that isn't always the case, but in most cases, it is.). I also wonder if I wanted to take a chance and book a coach seat and then ask a conductor if a sleeper is available.

Just curious if others will change/modify their Amtrak sleeper habits because of the cancellation policy...

-- Jackie

 

[printman2000]

Yes, it is still possible to buy on board upgrades. As far as the bucket pricing system changing, I don't believe so. I have noted in another thread that the Southwest Chief prices were jacked way up for next year, but hopefully they will come down.

As I understand it, if you booked now and then found a lower price later, they should be able to refund the difference. But I have never done that so I am not absolutely sure how that works.

 

[jis]

Yes, it is still possible to buy on board upgrades. As far as the bucket pricing system changing, I don't believe so. I have noted in another thread that the Southwest Chief prices were jacked way up for next year, but hopefully they will come down.

As I understand it, if you booked now and then found a lower price later, they should be able to refund the difference. But I have never done that so I am not absolutely sure how that works.

Perhaps if Amtrak could do waitlisted upgrades on an availability basis at departure as many airlines and many railroads in other countries do, things would work out nicely. Some airlines with more capable IT systems even let you do a waitlisted upgrade using a mix of FF points and money. It proves to be a nice source of termporaryc ash for them since they collect the upgrade fee up front, and of course refund it if the upgrade does not come through.

This takes the Conductor out of the equation. The e-Ticket facility makes this easier to do. But it would require managing waiting lists for upgrades. Since airlines manage waitlists for flights anyway, doing another waitlist for upgrades to each class is not much of an additional hassle for them. Since Amtrak does not do waiting lists at all it will be new territory for Amtrak, should they wish to go that way.

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak already does maintain waitlists for those wanting a sleeper when all sleepers are sold out; so frankly I wouldn't think that it's all that hard to add & maintain a second "price is too high waitlist" as it were.

 

[amamba]

Amtrak already does maintain waitlists for those wanting a sleeper when all sleepers are sold out; so frankly I wouldn't think that it's all that hard to add & maintain a second "price is too high waitlist" as it were.

I would actually think it would be good to have an upgrade list for FC on acela. If they had a list of folks with status, I would even be willing to pay something like 1000-2500 points for a FC upgrade or perhaps $35ish (which is half price NYP - BOS).

 

[JackieTakestheTrain]

Hi. I am back to this topic today as my holiday plans are starting to take shape....

Two questions:

1. Has anyone cancelled a sleeper yet and been charged a fee since the new policy went into place?

2. I am confused when I read the policy: If I book a sleeper and then *change* the itinerary to a date where I travel in a sleeper, is the fee still in effect? Also, in those cases where I flat-out cancel within 15 days of travel, do I get a choice of how I receive my refund? It appears I only get it back in a travel voucher and not back in the original method of payment.

Thanks!

- Jackie, who is wishing she could afford her own train.