"Never place belongings under seat." Why?

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willem

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At both Washington Union Station and New York Penn Station, I saw signs titled Safety Tips that included the admonition quoted in the topic title. Is this just shorthand for "Don't forget belongings that you stored under the seat" or is there something more?
 
Perhaps the seat referred to in the sign is not the seat on the train but the one in the station and for these reasons: Being out of sight, there's the the problem Willem mentioned; Being out of sight someone might be able to steal it by sliding it farther aft and you'd be unaware of the theft until it was too late. Maybe.
 
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Putting things under a seat is suspicious. So is looking at security officers... or avoiding looking at security officers. ;)
 
I’m assuming you mean in the station waiting area?
I don’t know why they’d admonish you to not do so. Personally I might forget something I put under my seat.
(I did that once when waiting for a city bus home, loaded down with bags from grocery shopping)

As for doing so onboard, when I rode coach, I put backpack with snacks and medications under the seat in front of me and (being 6' 2”) rode ABQ -LAX with my feet atop the bag.
(I didn’t want to put the bag with my meds in the luggage area, out of my control).

So, the bottom line is ~~ I don’t know.
smiley_39.gif
 
If it's referring to station waiting room seats, it might indeed be the issue of stuff being snatched from "behind" the seat. I have put things half-under the seat with my feet on top of or around them.

Train seats? Makes no sense whatsoever.
 
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JoeBas said:
Putting things under a seat is suspicious. So is looking at security officers... or avoiding looking at security officers. ;)
Click to expand...
The criteria that the TSA look for was leaked last year.

Here are some of the "suspicious" factors which count against you...

Arriving early/late

Avoiding eye contact

Initiating eye contact

Maintaining eye contact

Yawning

Fidgeting

Clock watching

Head turning

Shuffling feet

Leg shaking

Touching face

Touching upper body

Rubbing hands

Wringing hands

Trembling

Exaggerated grooming

Repetitive grooming

Using hands to communicate

Insufficient body movement

Passes object to someone else

Accepts object from someone else

Pale face

Flushed face

Excessive blink rate

Lack of sufficient blinking

Excessive breathing rate

Visible swallowing

Arterial movement

Rigid posture

Arms close to sides

Body odor

Sweaty hands

Bag heavier than expected

Bag has unsuitable appearance

Baggy clothing

Looking at screeners

Looking at other passengers

Looking around the room

Looking at scanning equipment

Looking at security cameras

Looking at luggage

Looking down at floor

Crying

Laughing

Smiling

Whistling

Excessive talking

Hesitation or Indecision

Excessive swallowing

Dry mouth or lack of swallowing

Change in voice pitch, rate, or volume

Talks loudly

Talks softly or covers mouth

Delayed response to questions/orders

Focused or Distracted behavior

Ignores questions

Focuses on or repeats questions

Gives answers which are too vague

Gives answers which are too detailed

Complains about screening process

Perspires before or while being scanned

Wearing unusual or inappropriate clothing

Wearing clothing similar to other travelers

Having same luggage as another traveler

Gripping baggage tightly

Placing hand inside luggage

Demonstrates situational awareness

Interest in security personnel

Interest in security process

Lack of interest or contempt/arrogance

Appears confused

Appears disoriented

Appears disguised

Asks questions about security process

Does not respond to commands

Possesses almanac

Possesses blueprint

Possesses GPS unit

Possesses flight manual

Possesses scuba manual

Possesses liquid or gel

Possesses prepaid calling card

Possesses rope

Possesses wire

Possesses duct tape

Possesses batteries

Possesses electronics

Is single

Is male

Is under 65 years old

------------------------------------

No, I'm not making this up.
 
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If someone places a bag under a seat in a station waiting area, then gets up, leaves and forgets the bag, there is now an unattended bag sitting in the station. That is considered a security issue and has to be handled. The sign seems to be simply saying not to forget your bag if you stored it out of sight under your seat.
 
PRR 60 said:
If someone places a bag under a seat in a station waiting area, then gets up, leaves and forgets the bag, there is now an unattended bag sitting in the station. That is considered a security issue and has to be handled. The sign seems to be simply saying not to forget your bag if you stored it out of sight under your seat.
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thanks Bill for the most likely answer to the question. Some always try to make a major issue out of what can be explained in a brief and clear manner.

:)
 
Railroad Bill said:
PRR 60 said:
If someone places a bag under a seat in a station waiting area, then gets up, leaves and forgets the bag, there is now an unattended bag sitting in the station. That is considered a security issue and has to be handled. The sign seems to be simply saying not to forget your bag if you stored it out of sight under your seat.
Click to expand...
thanks Bill for the most likely answer to the question. Some always try to make a major issue out of what can be explained in a brief and clear manner.
Click to expand...
If the sign was there simply to say do not forget your bag then why does the sign not simply say do not forget your bag?
 
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This is one I personally experienced a very long time ago, long before 911.

I'm an architect and always look up and stare at the ceilings to see what the structures, beams, finish materials etc. was used and how things were put together. Those huge floor to ceiling windows were amazing, especially when you consider the year it was built.

I was stopped at Dulles and questioned for a rather long time about what I was looking at.

Because Dulles was (is) a significant piece of architecture I was able to convince security I was just a "weird architect" and they finally let me go, after I missed my fight.

My business card, etc. probably didn't "hurt my defense" either. :p
 
jis said:
How could anyone grab anything from behind when one places stuff under the seat in front?
Click to expand...

neroden said:
If it's referring to station waiting room seats, it might indeed be the issue of stuff being snatched from "behind" the seat. I have put things half-under the seat with my feet on top of or around them.
Click to expand...
The OP specifically mentioned in stations and that's the scenario to which I was responding. From my experiences, there is more likely a seat in a station that's behind you (back-to-back), than directly/immediately in front of you.

I can easily see someone sitting in the back-to-back seat behind you, waiting a few minutes, reaching down under their seat far enough to gasp your stuff, pulling it out, and walking away as if it their stuff. It would not look at all suspicious, and they will be long gone, before anyone realizes it.
 
It seems silly of the TSA to allow that list to be leaked... All the bad guys have to do is avoid those giveaway actions. At least you are all living in a free country, unlike us poor souls in a "Nanny State". :p

Ed :cool:
 
Since the list contains almost every conceivable act and its opposite too, it is a more or less meaningless list in and of itself. Actually a properly trained person would be looking for cluster of acts, not individual ones. It is something to behold at Ben Gurion Airport while you are explaining the meaning of your name or something completely off the wall like that, to the random agent that caught you as soon as you entered the airport door. I have had some really interesting discussions about the history of the middle east and the Indian subcontinent and Hinduism and what not with those agents. It is kind of fun. ;)

Then I have also learned about acquaintances who go all grumpy on them and spent the next three hours in an isolated room while their luggage is rummaged through and their plane leaves without them too. :( As Bob Dylan says YMMV. :-/ This is one reason that I insist on being by myself and not as part of any group when going through there, sincn I have no idea what stunt someone else will try to pull.
 
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caravanman said:
It seems silly of the TSA to allow that list to be leaked... All the bad guys have to do is avoid those giveaway actions. At least you are all living in a free country, unlike us poor souls in a "Nanny State". Ed
Click to expand...
If you look closely you'll notice that in many cases the TSA flags both the negative and the affirmative for any given action or trait. Which kind of exposes the TSA's directive as more of an arbitrary extralegal dragnet rather than a logical and legitimate profiling operation.
 
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AFAIK, this had to do with a frequent problem that was occurring several years ago, where purses, especially, were targeted by people in the seat either in front or behind you. It would be slid forward/back, wallet removed and slid back in place. People usually didn't notice until they were off the train and reaching for their wallet...
 
Are you sure that list is legitimate? It seems like a joke to me since it covers pretty much any action that can be taken by a human being. But unfortunately, I guess it's possible that some over-eager security type actually drew it up.
 
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OBS said:
AFAIK, this had to do with a frequent problem that was occurring several years ago, where purses, especially, were targeted by people in the seat either in front or behind you. It would be slid forward/back, wallet removed and slid back in place. People usually didn't notice until they were off the train and reaching for their wallet...
Click to expand...
That makes sense. I am actually astounded at how careless some people are with their purses and wallets.
 
MikefromCrete said:
Are you sure that list is legitimate? It seems like a joke to me sense it covers pretty much any action that can be taken by a human being. But unfortunately, I guess it's possible that some over-eager security type actually drew it up.
Click to expand...
According to my notes the source TSA list is from Version 4 of the "Spot Referral Report" which was created sometime in 2009.
 
The TSA is unconstitutional and should be shut down with extreme prejudice. They're basically operating as a gang of thugs who think they're above the law, and unfortunately so far they have been.

Soviet "security forces" under Gorbachev were less arbitrary and less capricious.

The list which Devil's Advocate posted is official; it was in the newspapers and has a solidly documented origin. The criminals running the TSA acted like there was nothing wrong with the "everyone is suspicious" list.
 
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