National Dining Car Specials/New Menus (April '17)

[PVD]

The ADA does not impose an absolute requirement to provide an ingredients list. 4. Does the ADA require that all public accommodations that serve food, like restaurants, also serve gluten-free or allergen-free food?

From FoodAllergy.org, regarding DOJ rulings:

 A: No. The ADA does not require that every place of public accommodation that serves food to the public provide gluten-free or allergen-free food.  5. What might a restaurant or other similar place of public accommodation need to do to accommodate an individual with celiac disease or other food allergies?  A: A restaurant may have to take some reasonable steps to accommodate individuals with disabilities where it does not result in a fundamental alteration of that restaurant's operations. By way of example only, this may include: 1) answering questions from diners about menu item ingredients, where the ingredients are known, or 2) omitting or substituting certain ingredients upon request if the restaurant normally does this for other customers.

 

[RSG]

When I think of Amtrak food, I recall an article from the student newspaper about our campus dining hall at the university I was attending. All I remember was the last (and bottom) line. The gist of it was "It (the food) may not be like mom makes at home, but mom didn't have to cook for 5,000 people." And that's how I feel about Amtrak food too.

That’s a great quote. It is so very true. It is extremely difficult to do institutional food that approaches anything like either ‘home-cooked’ or fine dining. The saving grace is that there are food storage and packaging processes available today that make the ingredients stay fresher and closer to what they were at the time of packaging so that the end result is a more palatable menu item.
On a side note, institutional foodservice has gotten a lot better over the years. The local college near me contracts with the multinational conglomerate Sodexo for their foodservice needs and their offerings are actually quite good---on par with any decent commercial cafeteria. Occasionally a friend & I will eat there on our way to other activities. They also welcome outside patronage.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

On a side note, institutional foodservice has gotten a lot better over the years. The local college near me contracts with the multinational conglomerate Sodexo for their foodservice needs and their offerings are actually quite good---on par with any decent commercial cafeteria. Occasionally a friend & I will eat there on our way to other activities. They also welcome outside patronage.

Same with the big University near me. When I went there, the dormitory cafe was basically a slop house, although they did sling some pretty good SOS! Today, it is a culinary delight with different themed serving stations catering to just about any type of appetite. And it is open to the public; something like $7-10 for all you can hold depending on the time of day.

Even though food service has become more standardized since the halcyon days of rail travel, with a little care, the little Diner kitchens can turn out some good stuff.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

When I think of Amtrak food, I recall an article from the student newspaper about our campus dining hall at the university I was attending. All I remember was the last (and bottom) line. The gist of it was "It (the food) may not be like mom makes at home, but mom didn't have to cook for 5,000 people." And that's how I feel about Amtrak food too.

Fair enough, but if that's the case why do we use IHOP or Applebees or Chili's as comparisons when in reality Amtrak is much closer to generic school cafeterias? Even the local Denny's is easily a full step or two above Amtrak's breakfast offerings.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I have to disagree about the Breakfast Comparison between Dennys and an Amtrak Diner Chris.( IHOP is better than Dennys IMHO)

I still eat an breakfast at a local Dennys before early work days, and while the prices are right, and the food OK to good, I still consider Breakast to be the overall best meal served in Amteak Diners, especially when considering Bang for the Bucks.

I haven't eaten off the New Menu with the changes but can honestly say I haven't ever had a bad Breakast on Amtrak in my 40+ years,of riding except for the infamous "French Toast Sticks" on the Cardinal. YMMV

 

[niemi24s]

In all these discussions about Amtrak food, the viewpoint of the diner should be considered. As I see it, here are two viewpoints:

• One is the viewpoint of those who spend a lot of time riding LD trains because they ride the train a lot to and from work (and thus accumulate lots of points), can easily board the train close to home and therefore take lots of "points runs". Part of this group is also the retired contingent living close to a station who ride as sort of a hobby - regardless of the cost or points accumulated. This group of LD train riders does a lot of eating on the train and can easily, methinks, regard themselves as qualified food critics, sort of like Anton Ego in the animated feature film Ratatouille shown on the left, below:



• The other viewpoint is that of those who seldom ride the train but who really enjoy LD train travel. That infrequent LD train ride (perhaps every two to five years) becomes a genuine and much-anticipated treat. Also, because of where they live, there may not be many eateries available other than fast food joints. As such, the rider may overlook or not even notice any of the shortcomings in a meal. I liken this group to Emile in that same movie (above, right). He'll stuff down any old food scrap and and enjoy it immensely.

These are, I admit, the extremes of the spectrum of Amtrak diners but they help me understand why some posters seem to constantly grumble about their train food and others (like me) who say they've never had a bad meal on a train.

Perspective. Plain and simple. Perspective.

 

[tricia]

I think your analysis is flawed. Those of us who live 2-3 hours or more from the nearest Amtrak station, and who thus don't take the train very often, might have higher rather than lower expectations. (If I'm going to have to contort my schedule to take the train, I want the experience to be a good one.) And those of us who live, say, an hour or more from the nearest McDonalds might, being unaccustomed to fast food, have a lower tolerance for it.

Or maybe different tolerances for mediocre-or-worse food vary from one individual to another, without much of a correlation to where each individual lives.

 

[niemi24s]

Mine might not be flawed - perhaps just a perspective that differs from yours.

We are, after all, not talking about quantifiable absolutes but mere opinions. Opinions about food as well as opinions about those who eat it. And opinions are like belly buttons - everybody's got one.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I also don't agree with your opinion though joking. Ha

As someone who has ridden Amtrak for many years... The food has been fine ever since the Bob Evans Breakfast Scramble days! (You couldn't fresh scrambled eggs, or grilled to order steak during that time...) about 4 years ago Amtrak was doing great. The Lamb, crab cakes, mahi mahi, were all truly excellent entrees that you would expect to order in a high end restaurant. while the sides and salads still had room for improvement... Over all things were looking great with several trains using the ceramic plates and glassware.

Things have taken a turn for the worse since then, but on most trains it's remained decent.

Everyone has different expectations... I sat with a family a few years ago who were saying the empire builder dining car was "a little better than a McDonald's" - that was with a good crew and in the China / glassware days. I was shocked.

 

[Maverickstation]

Ingredient lists are STARTING to be included on the Food Facts site.

http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/restimg2/force/template/1/Amtrak__Food_Facts/w432/h340/AMFF-SPRING-2017-39.pdf

Ken

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I have to disagree about the Breakfast Comparison between Dennys and an Amtrak Diner Chris.( IHOP is better than Dennys IMHO) I still eat an breakfast at a local Dennys before early work days, and while the prices are right, and the food OK to good, I still consider Breakast to be the overall best meal served in Amteak Diners, especially when considering Bang for the Bucks. I haven't eaten off the New Menu with the changes but can honestly say I haven't ever had a bad Breakast on Amtrak in my 40+ years,of riding except for the infamous "French Toast Sticks" on the Cardinal. YMMV

Let's take a look at the current omelet...



That is among the sorriest looking "omelets" I've ever seen. As is usual for Amtrak the "egg" has the exact same hue and texture across the entire plate. Real eggs vary in color and texture because they're not perfectly uniform after conventional beating. Only high pressure pasteurized egg syrup is anywhere near this consistent. Denny's may be a low grade restaurant but at least you can order your eggs however you please. I haven't seen eggs that were genuinely made to order on Amtrak in decades.

 

[jis]

Do they even carry any real uncracked eggs in Amtrak Diners any more? I though they only carry the syrup stuff. Otherwise why would they be unable to serve eggs over easy and such?

 

[Maverickstation]

Amtrak trains with full diners use fresh eggs. Your only option is scrambled due to the limited staff they operate with.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Do they even carry any real uncracked eggs in Amtrak Diners any more? I though they only carry the syrup stuff. Otherwise why would they be unable to serve eggs over easy and such?

&

Amtrak trains with full diners use fresh eggs. Your only option is scrambled due to the limited staff they operate with.

From looking at the pictures and reading the descriptions it would appear that the scrambled eggs meal comes from two whole shell eggs while the omelet is made from three eggs worth of egg syrup.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Well one of you is gonna have egg on their face. And you haven't even had breakfast on the train.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

The previous menus omelettes appeared to fresh and made to order.

 

[niemi24s]

Let's take a look at the current omelet...

What's the source of the screenshot of that omelette in Post #86?

[Edit: Disregard, I found it. It's from the Amtrak food facts website.]

However, based on the menu description of the omelette...

...the photo doesn't seem to show anything inside or mixed in with the eggs. Don't omelettes usually have ham, cheese, bacon, onions, tomatoes or some other ingredient mixed in? I guess the big question is...

Q: Does the omelette you actually get in the dining car look like the square yellow thing in the photo?

 

[Chessie]

I have to agree fish would have been a smarter idea than shrimps.

Ditto!Not being a fan of Shrimp, I miss the Salmon,Trout and the Catfish, but not the Tilapia!

Yep, I also prefer salmon, trout and cod over tilapia.
Personally I like shrimp but I think fish would have a wilder audience hence a smarter choice from a consuner's pov because some people have shell fish allergies or religious reasons to avoid shrimp, and the health conscious generally prefer fish for its higher omega 3 and lower cholesterol.

I suspect cost and ease of storage and better tolerance to freezing might be the reasons Amtrak opted for shrimp. Certainly valid reasons too from the operating side.

 

[jis]

The difference between the two beaten egg scenarios is rather subtle I must say.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Let's take a look at the current omelet...

What's the source of the screenshot of that omelette in Post #86?
[Edit: Disregard, I found it. It's from the Amtrak food facts website.]

You must have updated just as I was clicking the quote button. In any case for those who are curious and want quick access here is a link...

http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/links.do?c=0&t=59&h=SunsetLimited.html&g=0&dsmxs=09327784C86B64BBC8485BAB70FDCD94474A9962&link=http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/restimg2/force/template/1/Amtrak__Food_Facts/w432/h340/AMFF-SPRING-2017-3.pdf

 

[PVD]

One of the hotels I frequent has a comp breakfast buffet, with an omelette bar. For speed, they use pasteurized eggs in cartons, and they pour them into a stainless steel container that sits in ice, and ladle the eggs into round forms laid out on the flattop. After they start to set, they drop on whatever items you requested and when done fold the omlette in half which is probably a more common shape. So it is possible to cook to order and come up with a standard shape, but my choice would not be square.

 

[jis]

In my mind eggs that are already outside the shell in a vat are really not fresh eggs. But well ... whatever.

 

[RSG]

One of the hotels I frequent has a comp breakfast buffet, with an omelette bar. For speed, they use pasteurized eggs in cartons, [...]

Known in the trade as “liquid egg product” (though I must say I like the term ‘egg syrup’). In institutional settings where time is of the essence, this is best way--in terms of production--to turn out an egg dish that approximates the real thing. This is the only way to go for hotel breakfast bars when you have one or two people responsible for production and a limited time frame in which to serve the meal. This is the setup of most hotel breakfast/omelet bars---and Amtrak. Places like Denny’s, IHOP, etc can have 3-4 people for their breakfast rush to make eggs any way you want (and to handle reorders when someone complains their ‘over easy’ egg is “hard as a rock”) and then do prep work in the down times. The alternative to ‘egg syrup’ is powdered scrambled eggs---a solution I guarantee no one is going to think worthy of a $12.95 menu price (whether paying for it directly or not).
Heretofore the omelets/egg orders I’ve had in the diners have been real eggs, since many times they are barely scrambled (a pet peeve of mine). Assuming that is still the case, I’m going to say that the square omelet in the food facts pic was simulated for publishing purposes. Food photography is an art in itself and when the day came to photograph items for the new menu, either the photographer was rushed and didn’t have time to do a lot of retakes, or else the ‘authentic’ omelets didn’t hold up to the demands of the photo shoot and so they used the LEP for the usable picture published online. This might be one case in which the real thing looks better than the picture---something that would work in favor of the dining car service.

 

[Dakota 400]

As a regular participant on the Cruise Critic web site as well as an occasional one here, I find it interesting that the "liquid egg product" discussion is now taking place on an Amtrak oriented web site. The use of, taste of, desirability of, and "is the stuff really made of eggs" has been discussed thoroughly on at least the HAL Message Boards of Cruise Critic. This is particularly true with the omelets prepared in the Lido Restaurants of HAL ships. (I don't follow other cruise line Message Boards so closely, but I would not be surprised that there have been discussions about this First World issue on them as well.)

Personally, I order Lido Restaurant omelets on HAL ships and have been pleased. I have ordered omelets--no chance to try the new menu as yet, but it is coming--on Amtrak. I have enjoyed all that were prepared and could not discern any difference between what may have been "liquid egg product" and the real egg.

 

[niemi24s]

. . .I’m going to say that the square omelet in the food facts pic was simulated for publishing purposes. Food photography is an art in itself and when the day came to photograph items for the new menu, either the photographer was rushed and didn’t have time to do a lot of retakes, or else the ‘authentic’ omelets didn’t hold up to the demands of the photo shoot and so they used the LEP for the usable picture published online. This might be one case in which the real thing looks better than the picture---something that would work in favor of the dining car service.

I'm going to assume the same thing. A friend of mine makes a part-time living at taking food pix, and the one of the omelette in Amtrak Food Facts looks quite amateurish in comparison. We may have been fooled by the picture, but will have to wait for somebody to post something about what an actual omelette served on a train looks like. Keep your fingers crossed!