Midwest flooding

[stlouielady]

Unfortunately for all the passengers involved, until it stops dumping rain over the affected areas, it's not going to get any better anytime soon. My folks are in Iowa, and told me tonight that it rained another 5-6 inches both Wednesday and Thursday over parts of Iowa, which, of course, will again fill up the rivers and take more water across the same places. It's a mess here in the St Louis area now, with the crest expected Monday on the Mississippi, barring no more rainfall up north. Levees are breaking all along the river(s), people are losing their homes, and there's not a thing anybody can do about it, other than watch and wait; sad situation for everyone involved.

 

[Rafi]

This is so frustrating. We're scheduled to be on the CZ from CHI to DEN on July 2nd and I've all but given up hope that it will be running by then. It doesn't seem that Amtrak has an option for getting us there if it doesn't so we'd be pretty much on our own. We're looking at Greyhound as a backup, but this was going to be our first train trip(w/ a sleeper) and the bus is a poor subsitute. Or we might be able to take the SWC into Colorado, but then a relative will have to drive 2-3 hours each way to pick us up and I'd hate to ask them to do that and now it seems that the SWC is suspended again anyways.
Are they running buses to KS and then you pick up the train there? We can't even book on the SWC without cancelling our reservation on the CF and even though it's not looking great I hate to take away any options. I'm hoping they'd be more likely to resume service on the SWC since it's already been restored once, but who knows. There's such a lack of information and even though I know the future can't be predicted it makes for very stressful travel planning. On top of that I worry if the CZ will be back by July 7th for our return trip or we could be going through this watching/waiting/calling process again during our vacation.

On the other hand, information searching has allowed me to see the devastation that the flooding has caused for so many communities and I hope the rivers recede even more for them to be able to get back to their lives as normal as possible.

RC,

At this point, I think you're pretty much guaranteed that the Zephyr won't be running on the 2nd out of Chicago. I imagine there is a VERY small chance it may run over UP's track as a detour, but that line is so congested everyone's saying it's not going to happen. Honestly, if I were in your shoes and had an extra day or two of flexibility, I might contact Amtrak to see if they can put you on the Chief to Raton, NM (you'd be taking a train to Galesburg, I think, then a bus to Kansas City, then the train to Raton) and have them bus you on their regular bus route up to Denver to catch the Zephyr out of there. It would probably add an extra day, I guess, and possibly a night in Denver on your dime, but it might be worth considering.

-Rafi

 

[iowa train fan]

This is so frustrating. We're scheduled to be on the CZ from CHI to DEN on July 2nd and I've all but given up hope that it will be running by then. It doesn't seem that Amtrak has an option for getting us there if it doesn't so we'd be pretty much on our own. We're looking at Greyhound as a backup, but this was going to be our first train trip(w/ a sleeper) and the bus is a poor subsitute. Or we might be able to take the SWC into Colorado, but then a relative will have to drive 2-3 hours each way to pick us up and I'd hate to ask them to do that and now it seems that the SWC is suspended again anyways.
Are they running buses to KS and then you pick up the train there? We can't even book on the SWC without cancelling our reservation on the CF and even though it's not looking great I hate to take away any options. I'm hoping they'd be more likely to resume service on the SWC since it's already been restored once, but who knows. There's such a lack of information and even though I know the future can't be predicted it makes for very stressful travel planning. On top of that I worry if the CZ will be back by July 7th for our return trip or we could be going through this watching/waiting/calling process again during our vacation.

On the other hand, information searching has allowed me to see the devastation that the flooding has caused for so many communities and I hope the rivers recede even more for them to be able to get back to their lives as normal as possible.

I feel your pain!! We are scheduled on CZ July 3 but we are only going from Omaha west so we at least are getting bused. Amtrak schedules still allow me to add a reservation for the 3rd, I know that is the earliest it will allow, so I still hold out faint hope. I think the Burlington area was spared the heavy rain this night but who knows how much is coming from upstream. They are still posting the river to drop but I don't know if it's enough to pull water off the tracks. Any ideas if the tracks are still under water anywhere along the line? I wonder what BNSF is doing with all there traffic? Good luck and as you said, we only have a little travel issue, some of these poor people have lost everything!!!!!

 

[Rafi]

I feel your pain!! We are scheduled on CZ July 3 but we are only going from Omaha west so we at least are getting bused. Amtrak schedules still allow me to add a reservation for the 3rd, I know that is the earliest it will allow, so I still hold out faint hope. I think the Burlington area was spared the heavy rain this night but who knows how much is coming from upstream. They are still posting the river to drop but I don't know if it's enough to pull water off the tracks. Any ideas if the tracks are still under water anywhere along the line? I wonder what BNSF is doing with all there traffic? Good luck and as you said, we only have a little travel issue, some of these poor people have lost everything!!!!!

NARP posted this yesterday (notice that the Zephyr's route is in the worst condition—under the most water):

First the good news—beginning today, the Empire Builder will resume service through to and from Chicago, albeit on a detour between Chicago and La Crosse, WI via. Canadian Pacific and Union Pacific. Bus service will be provided between Milwaukee and LaCrosse, stopping at Wisconsin Dells and Tomah only.
As for the Southwest Chief, the train was able to operate thru last Sunday and Monday, before flood waters once again closed the line. Yesterday’s train 3 detoured via. St. Louis (route of the Ann Rutledge) but departed Kansas City over five hours late. Today’s service will return to the previous pattern of turning train 4 in Kansas City and busing between Chicago and Kansas City, with limited service to intermediate points.

There is currently no estimate for restoration of the California Zephyr service east of Denver. This route has faced the most severe damage of the three Amtrak trains impacted, with nearly 17 feet of water over the rails at Connet, IL (east of Burlington, IA). It is currently not practical to detour over the Union Pacific Chicago-Omaha mainline due to flooding and heavy freight congestion. Buses are provided between Denver and Omaha only.

Finally, Amtrak advises that the Missouri Mules may face delay and last-minute bus substitution due to heavy Union Pacific traffic detouring over its route. At least one set of trips this past week were covered by buses.

Rafi

 

[RC]

Ok, I've officially given up on the CZ for th 2nd (still holding out for the 7th) based on all the info I've seen. We've switched to the SWC which even if it isn't running the full trip will at least have alt transport avail to get us there, we will have our sleeper for portion of the trip and we won't have a bus trip of double the time. Our relative has agreed to pick us up and I regret the incovenience to them but at least we can have our visit.

I did look into the Amtrak bus option from NM but, yes it would add another day of travel (we'd be set to arrive in Denver around 9:30 pm) and We'd really like to get there asap since we have lots of plans made already for our few days there.

Does anyone know what caused the SWC to close down again partially and what are the odds that it might be back in service by the 2nd? I was hoping it was just a small set back but the impression I got from the Amtrak agent was a back to square one type of event?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Where does this flood rank with the usual spring/summer floods?

 

[wisEBfan]

Where does this flood rank with the usual spring/summer floods?

Here's a quote from a special section of the Wisconsin State Journal from Friday 6/27/2008: "Water levels in several rivers--the Kickapoo, the Baraboo, the Rock, the Root--exceeded a 500-year flooding event, according to a provisional estimate by the U.S. Geological Survey. There is just a 0.2 percent likelihood of such an event happening in any given year in a particular location."

 

[Chessie Hokie]

Where does this flood rank with the usual spring/summer floods?

Here's a quote from a special section of the Wisconsin State Journal from Friday 6/27/2008: "Water levels in several rivers--the Kickapoo, the Baraboo, the Rock, the Root--exceeded a 500-year flooding event, according to a provisional estimate by the U.S. Geological Survey. There is just a 0.2 percent likelihood of such an event happening in any given year in a particular location."

Here is some further illumination on the "500-year flood" issue from the US Geological Survey: Two 500-Year Floods Within 15 Years-- What are the Odds

 

[Wendymarie37]

I'm scheduled to leave around the 13th out of Chicago, any thoughts on wether or not the CZ will be running by then?

 

[drbabbers]

Hi all,

Just arrived in New York City, having taken the Southwest Chief from LA to Kansas City, then a 10 hour coach from Kansas City to Chicago. Then an overnight train from Chicago to NYC.

I was very frustrated on the SWC... I was under the impression when we boarded, that our train was direct to Chicago, however I believe during our journey there were more floods and the train terminated at KC. I can totally understand the situation, but the driver only told us this offically 15 minutes before we arrived to Kansas City and there were a lot of very upset people whose plans were ruined. I actually found out the night before from our sleeper car attendant who knew this 'unofficially'... so yea our journey was long and tiring... but we got there in the end! Train from LA into KC at 10am, then coach about 10.30am all the way directly to Chicago with 2 rest stops... 10 hours! Got to Chicago about 8pm..

 

[GregL]

I'm scheduled to leave around the 13th out of Chicago, any thoughts on wether or not the CZ will be running by then?

This weekend I talked to a guy that is an employee of BNSF. He said they have had 5,000 feet (17 foot deep) of double main line taken out east of Burlington,Ia in Illinois when the Mississippi river levee broke. I did see that BNSF has a bunch of equipment sitting in Burlington before the flood waters came back down to repair the main lines. They want that repaired ASAP because I believe there were other transcon. routes damaged with the flooding. Hopefully they will have it done by the 13th.

GregL

 

[sky12065]

I'm scheduled to leave around the 13th out of Chicago, any thoughts on wether or not the CZ will be running by then?

I'm leaving tomorrow on the SWC for Flagstaff. I called Amtrak yesterday to find out if I would be able to board in Chicago as normal and was told that no disruption of service was expected. I can only hope they told me the truth. Anyway, by watching the train's status I've notice that the lateness is improving from what they were. The last run I could check ran about 5 hours late, down from around 10 give or take. I would think that 5 hours couldn't happen if they were still busing from CHI to Kansas City.

As a side note, the weather forcast around the Mississippi where Amtrk's SWC normally crosses showed sunny both today and tomorrow. That's gotta hopefully help the regions flooding problem a little.

 

[GregL]

I'm scheduled to leave around the 13th out of Chicago, any thoughts on wether or not the CZ will be running by then?

This weekend I talked to a guy that is an employee of BNSF. He said they have had 5,000 feet (17 foot deep) of double main line taken out east of Burlington,Ia in Illinois when the Mississippi river levee broke. I did see that BNSF has a bunch of equipment sitting in Burlington before the flood waters came back down to repair the main lines. They want that repaired ASAP because I believe there were other transcon. routes damaged with the flooding. Hopefully they will have it done by the 13th.

GregL

I wasn't very clear in this post. The trackage that had the 5,000 foot damaged was on the line the California Zephyr uses. The track the Southwest Chief uses is a different one and is back to ''normal'' since the flood. I didn't mean to scare you!!

Both tracks are between Galesburg,Ill and Iowa. In Ft. Madison, Ia. on SWC route the water was over the tracks for a day or two.

GregL

 

[printman2000]

Hi all,
Just arrived in New York City, having taken the Southwest Chief from LA to Kansas City, then a 10 hour coach from Kansas City to Chicago. Then an overnight train from Chicago to NYC.

I was very frustrated on the SWC... I was under the impression when we boarded, that our train was direct to Chicago, however I believe during our journey there were more floods and the train terminated at KC. I can totally understand the situation, but the driver only told us this offically 15 minutes before we arrived to Kansas City and there were a lot of very upset people whose plans were ruined. I actually found out the night before from our sleeper car attendant who knew this 'unofficially'... so yea our journey was long and tiring... but we got there in the end! Train from LA into KC at 10am, then coach about 10.30am all the way directly to Chicago with 2 rest stops... 10 hours! Got to Chicago about 8pm..

Sound like you did almost the exact same trip we did two weeks ago when all this flooding first started. While I understand your frustration, keep in mind that all this flooding is constantly changing things. While I hated being on the bus, I was very appreciative that Amtrak got us to our destination on time to make our connection to the LSL. This is all very complicated mess and I think they are doing a pretty good job at getting people where they need to go.

 

[sjstarkey]

Hi all,
Just arrived in New York City, having taken the Southwest Chief from LA to Kansas City, then a 10 hour coach from Kansas City to Chicago. Then an overnight train from Chicago to NYC.

I was very frustrated on the SWC... I was under the impression when we boarded, that our train was direct to Chicago, however I believe during our journey there were more floods and the train terminated at KC. I can totally understand the situation, but the driver only told us this offically 15 minutes before we arrived to Kansas City and there were a lot of very upset people whose plans were ruined. I actually found out the night before from our sleeper car attendant who knew this 'unofficially'... so yea our journey was long and tiring... but we got there in the end! Train from LA into KC at 10am, then coach about 10.30am all the way directly to Chicago with 2 rest stops... 10 hours! Got to Chicago about 8pm..

Sound like you did almost the exact same trip we did two weeks ago when all this flooding first started. While I understand your frustration, keep in mind that all this flooding is constantly changing things. While I hated being on the bus, I was very appreciative that Amtrak got us to our destination on time to make our connection to the LSL. This is all very complicated mess and I think they are doing a pretty good job at getting people where they need to go.

We just got home (6/30) from our SWC trip. Got a ohne call on my cell from amtrak at around 11pm, while on the capital limited, explaining that we would be bussed from CHI to KC. I asked at least 5 times how long the ride would be, and each time was told 7 hours. We left CHI at 3pm and arrived in KC at 12am. We stopped once to chage bus deivers and then a quick 20 minute dinner break. I had my 12 year old daughter with me and because the A/C was on full blast the whole bus ride (even though he was asked to turn it down) she was as cold as an ice cube by the time we arrived. I think that amtrak should have made sure everyone had a blanket or something. Also, being told 7 hours and having the bus driver say that he doesn't know why Amtrak keeps telling people that, is somewhat disheartening. I took the Amtrak rep. at her word and then realized that she either didn't know what she was talking about, or was saying less time to appease the passengers.

 

[Chessie Hokie]

I have a reservation on the westbound CZ the second weekend of July, so I am following the current situation very closely. So far Amtrak has not deemed it necessary to give me the dreaded phone call canceling my trip...knock on wood!

There is a new glimmer of hope, though, as BNSF has today issued a new update on the situation which has kept the CZ route shut down, stating "Our main line across southern Iowa via Ottumwa remains out of service due to flood damage just east of Burlington, Iowa, although waters have receded to the point that crews are able to begin working to restore the damaged trackage..."

That is good news, as previous reports had stated that track was still under water. As long as the bridges are okay I remain optimistic that they can get the trackage back in shape for the CZ to resume service before my trip...though I'm sure slow orders will abound for some time. BNSF seriously wants to get that trackage back in service soon, as the southern detour for freight traffic is costing them time and money...they have been staging RJ Corman repair crews, supplies and equiment in Burlington for over a week to attack the problem as quickly as possible.

The link below also has a photo of a track crew at work east of Burlington.

Flood Update - A message to BNSF customers about the effects of Midwest flooding on BNSF

 

[sky12065]

ORIGINAL POST

I'm leaving tomorrow on the SWC for Flagstaff. I called Amtrak yesterday to find out if I would be able to board in Chicago as normal and was told that no disruption of service was expected. I can only hope they told me the truth. Anyway, by watching the train's status I've notice that the lateness is improving from what they were. The last run I could check ran about 5 hours late, down from around 10 give or take. I would think that 5 hours couldn't happen if they were still busing from CHI to Kansas City.

As a side note, the weather forcast around the Mississippi where Amtrk's SWC normally crosses showed sunny both today and tomorrow. That's gotta hopefully help the regions flooding problem a little.

UPDATE

Just spoke to Amtrak and was informed that I will definitely be bused tomorrow from Chicago to Kansas City. Obviously they neglected to let me know that when I spoke to them yesterday... or at best evasive about it.

As for the time element, I heard it was 10, 9 and 6 hours between the two points, but checking with a Google Map search it came out to 8 hours. So I would have to presume that 8 hours is the best case seniaro or more depending on stops or traffic considerations.

Anyway, this old guy will have plenty of meds to help deal with the discomforts and/or anxiety! LOL

 

[darien-l]

Photo of track damage near Burlington, IA (California Zephyr line) from the BNSF report:

Holy crap!

 

[drbabbers]

Sound like you did almost the exact same trip we did two weeks ago when all this flooding first started. While I understand your frustration, keep in mind that all this flooding is constantly changing things. While I hated being on the bus, I was very appreciative that Amtrak got us to our destination on time to make our connection to the LSL. This is all very complicated mess and I think they are doing a pretty good job at getting people where they need to go.

Yea I totally agree. Everyone on the bus seemed to be in good spirits. Also they had stated that if anyone missed a connecting train in Chicago, they would get a refund and a rescheduled ticket, also Amtrak would accomodate them in a hotel for the night! Impressive!!

 

[George Harris]

Where does this flood rank with the usual spring/summer floods?

Here's a quote from a special section of the Wisconsin State Journal from Friday 6/27/2008: "Water levels in several rivers--the Kickapoo, the Baraboo, the Rock, the Root--exceeded a 500-year flooding event, according to a provisional estimate by the U.S. Geological Survey. There is just a 0.2 percent likelihood of such an event happening in any given year in a particular location."

Here is some further illumination on the "500-year flood" issue from the US Geological Survey: Two 500-Year Floods Within 15 Years-- What are the Odds

0.2 percent every year. For a 15 year period, 1.5%.

Sometime in the 1960's or early 70's the James River at Richmond, Virginia exceeded the "100 year" flood three times in about a 6 year period. A "100 year" flood dies not mean it will happen only once in any 100 eyar period. It means an average reoccurance, or better put, every year you have a 1.0 percent chance of a fllood to that elevation. Same for any other flood reoccurance.

"10 year flood" = 10% chance in any given year.

"20 year flood" = 5% chance in any given year.

"50 year flood" = 2% chance in any given year.

"100 year flood" = 1.0% chance in any given year.

"500 year flood" = 0.2% chance in any given year.

Normally drainage systems are designed for one of these with a look of some sort at what happens when it is exceeded. Normally streel inlets are designed for a 10 to 20 year intermal rainfall with the knowledge that for the higher intensities the problem is usually limited to water running along the street to the next inlet. For that reason, sag point inlets usually are desiged for higher intensities.

 

[scott]

Am hoping to be on the CZ June 16th Chicago-Omaha. Anyone have any ideas whether or not it's likely to run? Amtrak only tells me they are hoping for mid-=July but I'm hoping someone out there might have a better idea as to how the cleanup work is going.

 

[GregL]

Am hoping to be on the CZ June 16th Chicago-Omaha. Anyone have any ideas whether or not it's likely to run? Amtrak only tells me they are hoping for mid-=July but I'm hoping someone out there might have a better idea as to how the cleanup work is going.

In todays Burlington Hawkeye, a spokesman for BNSF said the railroad would be fully operational by 6AM thursday. He did not mention Amtrak, which uses the line that was wipped out when the levee broke on June 17.