Meeting my new love - The Boeing 777

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That's a shame, as it was always fascinating to hearing the comforting sound of humans that were taking care of you as you were handed off as you made your way across the country, and being wished a "good day", or "good night".....

And the same listening to block tower's and dispatcher's while riding the long distance trains....and hearing the differences in regional accent's of the voices...and finally hearing the familiar "New York" accent as I got close to home....

Ah, but that's progress.....I guess....
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I doubt that's going away any time soon. CPDLC in the US for enroute purposes is probably going to take a little while longer. Even in Europe you still have to check in between centers regardless of CPDLC login status.
 
How do the airline maps compare to using wifi and watching your progress on a Flightaware map?
They're similar in purpose but the on board maps come with a lot of extraneous visuals involving virtual flybys, broad noodle flight trajectories, and massive rotating destination targets.

Whats wrong with the windows?
Flying across an ocean at 35,000 feet doesn't really look like anything. All you see is a vaguely bluish hue below you. Occasionally you may see clouds and storms below you or another aircraft passing along a nearby flight path but that's about it. If you're able to see islands or ships or other features then you're either nearing your destination or something terribly important has gone horrible wrong.

That's a shame, as it was always fascinating to [hear] the comforting sound of humans that were taking care of you as you were handed off as you made your way across the country, and being wished a "good day", or "good night"...And the same listening to block tower's and dispatcher's while riding the long distance trains....and hearing the differences in regional accent's of the voices...and finally hearing the familiar "New York" accent as I got close to home...
I wouldn't call JFK approach "comforting" so much as flippant and abrasive. I'm sure they're convinced their way is the only way to run a busy airport in a very busy neighborhood, but if that were the case the 18 or so airports with more movements per day would have adopted JFK's adversarial attitude a long time ago.
 
Ouch! That's the attitude by outsider's that I am used to hearing about New Yorker's, that judge us without really knowing us...

We live in a tough, fast paced environment, that results in developing certain traits that others perceive as being rude, when the complete opposite is true...many of us are the most generous individuals on earth, that will give you the shirt off their back to help you, but at the same time expect professional competency 'on-the-air'....

Which TRACONS are busier than the New York one?
 
I doubt that's going away any time soon. CPDLC in the US for enroute purposes is probably going to take a little while longer. Even in Europe you still have to check in between centers regardless of CPDLC login status.
I wasn't aware of this new technology....(I just Googled it)....sort of an expansion of ACARS, eh?
 
Ouch! That's the attitude by outsider's that I am used to hearing about New Yorker's, that judge us without really knowing us...

We live in a tough, fast paced environment, that results in developing certain traits that others perceive as being rude, when the complete opposite is true...many of us are the most generous individuals on earth, that will give you the shirt off their back to help you, but at the same time expect professional competency 'on-the-air'....

Which TRACONS are busier than the New York one?
I thought DA was talking about JFK Tower. How did New York Tracon become relevant to that?
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Hopefully you're safe on London and everything is back to Normal!!!

Terrible scene in Egypt too!

Only thing I agree with Trump about is that Terrorist Religious Zealots ( NOT just Muslims) need to be eliminated from this earth!
 
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Nothing out of the ordinary in the UK. I was riding trains all day, and there is absolutely zero security theater at least on trains as far as I can tell. Anyway I could not see anything here that deviated from the normal.

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Ouch! That's the attitude by outsider's that I am used to hearing about New Yorker's, that judge us without really knowing us...

We live in a tough, fast paced environment, that results in developing certain traits that others perceive as being rude, when the complete opposite is true...many of us are the most generous individuals on earth, that will give you the shirt off their back to help you, but at the same time expect professional competency 'on-the-air'....

Which TRACONS are busier than the New York one?
I thought DA was talking about JFK Tower. How did New York Tracon become relevant to that?
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I thought "JFK approach" was handled by the TRACON....?
 
Not the approach to the runways. That is JFK tower. I think his point was that there are several airports in the world with higher traffic throughput than JFK, but the JFK folks still think they are it. [emoji57]

New York Tracon handles arrivals into all three major New York Area airports. It hands flights over to the towers for final approach, and ground control.

The other big control center in the New York area is the New York En-route Center at Islip. That is a busy place. I have been there a couple of times.

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Okay....but when you listen to the ATC frequencies, they refer to The TRACON as Approach (or Departures) and JFK tower as Kennedy Tower....IIRC..its been a while since I listened in.

By the way, I have also visited the New York Center, as well as the (old) Kennedy Tower.....also visited the Denver Center. Could not get a visit at the NY TRACON, which is located in Westbury.....

Also visited the LGA (old 'lighthouse)' tower, and the Stapleton tower....

ALL of them were staffed by pro's, who really knew and performed their jobs well....
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Okay....but when you listen to the ATC frequencies, they refer to The TRACON as Approach (or Departures) and JFK tower as Kennedy Tower....IIRC..its been a while since I listened in.

By the way, I have also visited the New York Center, as well as the (old) Kennedy Tower.....also visited the Denver Center. Could not get a visit at the NY TRACON, which is located in Westbury.....

Also visited the LGA (old 'lighthouse)' tower, and the Stapleton tower....

ALL of them were staffed by pro's, who really knew and performed their jobs well....
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100% agree. I spend loads of time working with the controllers in the metro NYC airspace, and they are some of the best, most professional ATC personnel anywhere. In the old days, I flew out of JFK often, but my airline has since consolidated to EWR. I miss it sometimes, but EWR is a much better commute for me! No more Belt parkway!
 
Ouch! That's the attitude by outsider's that I am used to hearing about New Yorker's, that judge us without really knowing us. We live in a tough, fast paced environment, that results in developing certain traits that others perceive as being rude, when the complete opposite is true...many of us are the most generous individuals on earth, that will give you the shirt off their back to help you, but at the same time expect professional competency 'on-the-air'. Which TRACONS are busier than the New York one?
There are tough, fast paced environments all over the world, not just in New York.

So why don't they all devolve into similar NYC style attitudes? From what I understand LON has more total traffic than NYC, but that's not really the point I was trying to make. These days many major airports have exceeded the traffic levels in effect when JFK first earned their reputation. If a tough workload and fast paced action in any way necessitated or benefited from the New Yorker attitude then presumably JFK would become the standard all over the world by now. In my view the main issue wasn't that JFK did it "wrong" so much as they did it different, which sometimes lead to unintended consequences when dealing with disparate cultures from far flung locations.

These days it's less of a problem, due in part to changes in pilot training and industry homogenization, but there was a time when it had the serious potential to contribute to major incidents and accidents. Also, just for the record, you can be rude while also being generous and professional. There is nothing that makes any of those traits fundamentally exclusive to the others. Which is kind of my point. You can be professional without getting snippy toward each other. For proof you only need to look outside New York.
 
Guys, not sure how many of you are professional pilots, but as one based in the NY area, I can tell you, the controllers in this space are some of the best in the world. Very helpful, and professional. I can also agree that the folks in Europe and the UK, where I fly almost every week, are fantastic as well.

New Yorkers may get a bad rep, but it's really no different than any other metropolitan area with regards to attitude. I've encountered pretty much an equal amount of "attitude" in the UK/Europe as well.

Just my 2 cents, from someone who's career takes me to those places just about every week.
 
New Yorkers are rude on the surface. So? It gives life a little geschmack.
As other posters say, rudeness can occur anywhere, but the rudest people I have met in my 73+ years of traveling the World have been in Chicago where "'Tude" seems to be a way of life among lots of people working in Customer service occupations. YMMV
 
Guys, not sure how many of you are professional pilots, but as one based in the NY area, I can tell you, the controllers in this space are some of the best in the world. Very helpful, and professional. I can also agree that the folks in Europe and the UK, where I fly almost every week, are fantastic as well. New Yorkers may get a bad rep, but it's really no different than any other metropolitan area with regards to attitude. I've encountered pretty much an equal amount of "attitude" in the UK/Europe as well. Just my 2 cents, from someone who's career takes me to those places just about every week.
The issue isn't about how a NYC based pilot feels about talking to an ATC from the same region. Why would that be a problem? The potential problem revolves around how someone from Asia/Europe/Africa/South America feels about being snapped at in a secondary language by New York's infamous ATC. Did it merely help them get where they needed to go or did it also create unnecessary tension or otherwise provoke a extraneous emotional response? If you believe there's another major airport with JFK's infamous ATC attitude then I'd be willing to listen to the audio feed with open ears, but so far I've never encountered it anywhere else.
 
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New Yorkers rise together in fierce defense of New Yorkers [emoji41][emoji57]

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Actually, we don't have to....when you're "A Number One .....", everywhere else looks up to you in envy....and they all want to come here...to the Capital of The World....

It's a "love-hate" relationship....like with the former "America's Team", the Dallas Cowboys...now "America's Team" seems to be the New England Patriots (sorry about that, Jerry Jones)...
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Ouch! That's the attitude by outsider's that I am used to hearing about New Yorker's, that judge us without really knowing us. We live in a tough, fast paced environment, that results in developing certain traits that others perceive as being rude, when the complete opposite is true...many of us are the most generous individuals on earth, that will give you the shirt off their back to help you, but at the same time expect professional competency 'on-the-air'. Which TRACONS are busier than the New York one?
There are tough, fast paced environments all over the world, not just in New York.

So why don't they all devolve into similar NYC style attitudes? From what I understand LON has more total traffic than NYC, but that's not really the point I was trying to make. These days many major airports have exceeded the traffic levels in effect when JFK first earned their reputation. If a tough workload and fast paced action in any way necessitated or benefited from the New Yorker attitude then presumably JFK would become the standard all over the world by now. In my view the main issue wasn't that JFK did it "wrong" so much as they did it different, which sometimes lead to unintended consequences when dealing with disparate cultures from far flung locations.

These days it's less of a problem, due in part to changes in pilot training and industry homogenization, but there was a time when it had the serious potential to contribute to major incidents and accidents. Also, just for the record, you can be rude while also being generous and professional. There is nothing that makes any of those traits fundamentally exclusive to the others. Which is kind of my point. You can be professional without getting snippy toward each other. For proof you only need to look outside New York.
Respectfully disagree, and not defending NYC.
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Most of my flying is from the US to europe and the middle east. I can tell you, Mumbai has some very testy ATC people, so does Frankfurt, Paris and Rome. It's certainly not isolated to any one part of the world/city, and to single any one place out. and suggest that is the worst, is unfair.
 
Capt 57, possibly this is a matter not to be addressed at a public forum, but I've always wondered if a loaded for takeoff 72 or 3, was right at V1, and lost an engine, could it still do so and gain enough altitude to safely return?
 
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