MBTA (Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority) discussion

[Fenway]

Worcester commuters are livid

https://www.telegram.com/story/news...erm=hero&utm_content=nteg-worcester-nletter01

Effective Monday, the Massachusetts Bay Transportaton Authority's Heart to Hub express train will have added stops between Worcester and West Natick, adding to the trip time.

The new schedule also changes morning and evening departure times from Union Station and South Station. Currently, the 6:30 a.m. train from Worcester makes one stop at Framingham before going directly to Lansdowne station in Boston, arriving at 7:24. The new schedule’s additional stops will add on as much as half an hour to the commute.

 

[Fenway]

If this is true then the T is almost beyond hope. If you can't build new tracks correctly it is easier to understand why they seem unable to correct the slow zones.




https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/09/26/metro/mbta-green-line-extension-new-slow-zones/

Less than one year after the final branch of the much-heralded Green Line extension opened for business, the MBTA said a problem with the tracks has reduced train speeds to just 3 miles per hour along stretches that add up to more than a mile.

Even by the T’s low standards in recent years, it’s an extraordinary development: Tracks that opened for passenger service to Union Square in March 2022 and to Medford last December and were shut down for repairs in recent months are now so defective, the T says, that trains are moving slower than many people walk.

T spokesperson Joe Pesaturo said the new slow zones, 11 on the Medford branch and 3 on the Union Square branch, are necessary after inspections this month found the rails are too close together at many spots. Operating trains at full speed on tracks that are too narrow risks derailment, track experts said.
But experts told the Globe that rails typically become wider, not narrower, with wear and tear.

Robert Halstead, a New York-based railroad accident reconstruction expert with Ironwood Technologies, said it’s very unusual for rails to narrow.

 

[west point]

Mr. Eng appears to be taking a very methodical approach. Zap one personnel problem at a time after careful evaluation. Now we all know he is going to have some back lash. Some persons will actually try to sabotage Eng's work as they suddenly have to work.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

Worcester commuters are livid

https://www.telegram.com/story/news...erm=hero&utm_content=nteg-worcester-nletter01

I have done Worcester to South Station a few times on off peak trains that make every stop and it is a loooong trip. Somehow the Peter Pan bus does it in an hour although their earliest trip is 9:30 AM so they miss the morning peak. Driving in on the Mass Pike is horrendous at best and then you have very expensive parking in the city. I don't understand why the MBTA would do this, although admittedly commuters don't have great alternatives.

 

[Brian Battuello]

It may have been referenced above, but I just discovered the TransitMatters website. Here's a report for the Red Line for the past month:

https://dashboard.transitmatters.org/red/?view=month
Take a look at the historical maximums for speed, service and ridership.

 

[Fenway]

I have a feeling this might be the straw that finally breaks the camel's back.

 

[joelkfla]

If Phil Eng is successful at turning this around, he'll have built himself a tremendous reputation. Train Daddy #2?

 

[Fenway]

If Phil Eng is successful at turning this around, he'll have built himself a tremendous reputation. Train Daddy #2?

Governor Healy - "How these defects can be possible after only a year in service?”

I believe Eng is the right choice but he has to be beside himself trying to sort this mess out.

Living 5 minutes away from the new GLX station at Union I have watched the project closely. I grumbled when some station amenities were eliminated but I never thought for a second that railbed infrastructure design might cut corners.................. silly me


I think we will see the MBTA dissolved after a 60-year run. MassDOT needs to make commuter rail separate from Boston rail/bus.

What astonishes me is the cultural bias seen across the entire MBTA system.

To this day there is friction on the commuter rail between the old New Haven, Boston & Albany, and Boston & Maine divisions. In bus garages, some still look at old EMSR and M&B routes as not being legacy MTA routes.

Back in the '70s and '80s if you wanted a non-driver position with the MBTA you applied through your state senator who then passed on the application to the president of the senate - William BULGER who was the brother of James 'Whitey' BULGER. That became the culture of the T.



https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/09...on-track-which-t-says-has-always-been-narrow/

Until Wednesday, the MBTA and Healey had blamed disinvestment in the transit system and its old age for the widespread slow zones across the subway. Now, Eng, the general manager, is adding “past decisions” to that list, without providing specifics about which decisions caused the current troubles.

“Since becoming general manager, delivering safe, reliable, and improved service has been a priority,” he said in a statement. “To do that, we remain committed to addressing infrastructure problems that we have inherited caused by years of disinvestment and past decisions that have led us to this point in time.”

Jim Conroy, a spokesperson for Baker, promoted the former governor’s record on transit.

“The Baker-Polito administration is proud of their accomplishments at the MBTA which includes record investment in deferred maintenance, record investment in new track, signals and cars, and saving the long-promised Green Line Extension that was in danger of being cancelled,” Conroy said in a statement. “As it pertains to the fine points of track construction, the Baker-Polito administration defers to engineers and experts at the MBTA.”

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

To this day there is friction on the commuter rail between the old New Haven, Boston & Albany, and Boston & Maine divisions. In bus garages, some still look at old EMSR and M&B routes as not being legacy MTA routes.

That is amazing, considering that you are probably collecting Social Security if you remember riding on an EMSR or M&B bus. Ditto with the NH, B&M, and NYC. Old habits die hard.

It is hard to know what will happen. It seems to me just replacing MBTA with another organization is just rearranging the deck chairs as you would need to keep many of the same people and you would be just shuffling things at the top. Unfortunately MA has a well deserved reputation for corruption and political interference and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

Any thoughts on how this problem with the out-of-spec narrow gauge happened? I have one odd speculation: overly green wood crossties shrinking. Large lumber takes longer to season and dry, and more energy. From the photos, the crossties are wooden.

I found one document from MBTA on how track geometry contractors should be managed, requiring an MBTA employee to ride along and see the instruments.

Most interesting is what a manager stated in the Globe article above, that it had always been narrow:

Pesaturo said the gauge, the width between rails, on the Medford branch “has been considered narrow since the opening, but there were no known conditions that warranted a speed restriction” in recent months.

Trains can run on track slightly out of gauge. Washington Metro! But that was the wheels widening on the axles.

Also I wonder how easy this will be to fix. You can't drill a new hole very close to an old hole in wood, but I don't know much about railroad construction. Door jamb plates I've tried. Maybe there's a special bracket for this.

 

[west point]

Also I wonder how easy this will be to fix. You can't drill a new hole very close to an old hole in wood, but I don't know much about railroad construction. Door jamb plates I've tried. Maybe there's a special bracket for this.

Maybe new tie plates that adjust for the dimension problem? Or new plates with less cant? Either will require filling all holes in the ties before respiking or screw type hold downs.

 

[EchoSierra]

How out of gauge are the rails?

 

[Fenway]

Any thoughts on how this problem with the out-of-spec narrow gauge happened? I have one odd speculation: overly green wood crossties shrinking. Large lumber takes longer to season and dry, and more energy. From the photos, the crossties are wooden.

I found one document from MBTA on how track geometry contractors should be managed, requiring an MBTA employee to ride along and see the instruments.

Most interesting is what a manager stated in the Globe article above, that it had always been narrow:



Trains can run on track slightly out of gauge. Washington Metro! But that was the wheels widening on the axles.

Also I wonder how easy this will be to fix. You can't drill a new hole very close to an old hole in wood, but I don't know much about railroad construction. Door jamb plates I've tried. Maybe there's a special bracket for this.

Eng seems genuinely flabbergasted over this fiasco. We know Baker demanded serious cutbacks to cut costs but we are now in uncharted territory.




https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/09...s-green-line-extension-slowdown-unacceptable/

The MBTA’s top infrastructure official told board members Thursday that the Green Line extension “didn’t meet construction standard,” seeming to offer an explanation for why narrowing tracks are forcing trains to creep at a walking pace on the newest stretch of subway to open in the Boston area since 1987.

“We’re going to dig in,” said chief of infrastructure Doug Connett. “But we know we have a problem.”

 

[Tlcooper44]

Eng seems genuinely flabbergasted over this fiasco. We know Baker demanded serious cutbacks to cut costs but we are now in uncharted territory.




https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/09...s-green-line-extension-slowdown-unacceptable/

In some ways, the elephant in the room of American railroading is that we aren’t very good at building train related things in this country - we don’t do it very often, so why should we expect to be good at it.

 

[John Santos]

Any thoughts on how this problem with the out-of-spec narrow gauge happened? I have one odd speculation: overly green wood crossties shrinking. Large lumber takes longer to season and dry, and more energy. From the photos, the crossties are wooden.

I found one document from MBTA on how track geometry contractors should be managed, requiring an MBTA employee to ride along and see the instruments.

Most interesting is what a manager stated in the Globe article above, that it had always been narrow:



Trains can run on track slightly out of gauge. Washington Metro! But that was the wheels widening on the axles.

Also I wonder how easy this will be to fix. You can't drill a new hole very close to an old hole in wood, but I don't know much about railroad construction. Door jamb plates I've tried. Maybe there's a special bracket for this.

Most or all the ties are concrete. Do they shrink as they dry out?

P.S. They look like wooden ties in the videos posted above. I haven't travelled the two+ miles to look at them in person, but in all the previous construction and "Grand Opening" videos and photos I've seen over the last several years, they looked like concrete ties. Wood when it dries out usually shrinks across the grain and not longitudinally, which wouldn't affect the gauge, though. (Or, given the recent near-record-breaking rain, maybe the ties are expanding? But that wouldn't explain it either!)

 

[jamoldover]

Most or all the ties are concrete. Do they shrink as they dry out?

P.S. They look like wooden ties in the videos posted above. I haven't travelled the two+ miles to look at them in person, but in all the previous construction and "Grand Opening" videos and photos I've seen over the last several years, they looked like concrete ties. Wood when it dries out usually shrinks across the grain and not longitudinally, which wouldn't affect the gauge, though. (Or, given the recent near-record-breaking rain, maybe the ties are expanding? But that wouldn't explain it either!)

Wooden ties tend to be used for switches and other special trackwork since adjustments to spike locations can be made more easily than they can with concrete ties if the tie position is slightly off from "perfect" geometry.

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

Governor Healy - "How these defects can be possible after only a year in service?”

I believe Eng is the right choice but he has to be beside himself trying to sort this mess out.

Living 5 minutes away from the new GLX station at Union I have watched the project closely. I grumbled when some station amenities were eliminated but I never thought for a second that railbed infrastructure design might cut corners.................. silly me


I think we will see the MBTA dissolved after a 60-year run. MassDOT needs to make commuter rail separate from Boston rail/bus.

What astonishes me is the cultural bias seen across the entire MBTA system.

To this day there is friction on the commuter rail between the old New Haven, Boston & Albany, and Boston & Maine divisions. In bus garages, some still look at old EMSR and M&B routes as not being legacy MTA routes.

Back in the '70s and '80s if you wanted a non-driver position with the MBTA you applied through your state senator who then passed on the application to the president of the senate - William BULGER who was the brother of James 'Whitey' BULGER. That became the culture of the T.



https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/09...on-track-which-t-says-has-always-been-narrow/

"Back in the '70s and '80s if you wanted a non-driver position with the MBTA you applied through your state senator who then passed on the application to the president of the senate - William BULGER who was the brother of James 'Whitey' BULGER. That became the culture of the T."
And the T actually functioned back in those days. My question is what is the bribery system today for a non-driver position with the MBTA? The incompetence is off the charts.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

"Back in the '70s and '80s if you wanted a non-driver position with the MBTA you applied through your state senator who then passed on the application to the president of the senate - William BULGER who was the brother of James 'Whitey' BULGER. That became the culture of the T."
And the T actually functioned back in those days. My question is what is the bribery system today for a non-driver position with the MBTA? The incompetence is off the charts.

I think the system functioned as well as it did back in the 70s and 80s (except maybe the Green Line at times with the Boeing LRV fiasco and the need to keep PCCs beyond their expected lifetimes, until the Kinki Sharyo cars arrived) because the majority of the system was either the original late 19th/early 20th century construction that was well built, or newly built stuff not of the same quality but yet to show its age. Much of the rapid transit equipment was fairly new (Red Line 1500-1700's., Hawker Siddleys on the Orange and Blue, the aforementioned Kinki Sharyos on the Green). Now all that stuff is showing its age and years of deferred maintenance are catching up.

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

I think the system functioned as well as it did back in the 70s and 80s (except maybe the Green Line at times with the Boeing LRV fiasco and the need to keep PCCs beyond their expected lifetimes, until the Kinki Sharyo cars arrived) because the majority of the system was either the original late 19th/early 20th century construction that was well built, or newly built stuff not of the same quality but yet to show its age. Much of the rapid transit equipment was fairly new (Red Line 1500-1700's., Hawker Siddleys on the Orange and Blue, the aforementioned Kinki Sharyos on the Green). Now all that stuff is showing its age and years of deferred maintenance are catching up.

I rode the Red line Ashmont trains everyday in the 70's and 80's and only remember the pullman cars. They weren't new. The green line was still mostly old PCC's until the mid 80's. What I really remember was the MBTA was up and fully running right after the Blizzard of '78. That would be impossible today.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

I rode the Red line Ashmont trains everyday in the 70's and 80's and only remember the pullman cars. They weren't new. The green line was still mostly old PCC's until the mid 80's. What I really remember was the MBTA was up and fully running right after the Blizzard of '78. That would be impossible today.

The Pullman "Bluebird" cars were delivered in 1963 so would have been only 10-20 years old in that time period.

I wonder if a factor is that the technology was a lot simpler back then. Little or no electronics, no ATO just conventional block signaling with train stops.

It is interesting to compare 1978 with the "snowmaggedon" of 2015 when the T was shut down for days.

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

The Pullman "Bluebird" cars were delivered in 1963 so would have been only 10-20 years old in that time period.

I wonder if a factor is that the technology was a lot simpler back then. Little or no electronics, no ATO just conventional block signaling with train stops.

It is interesting to compare 1978 with the "snowmaggedon" of 2015 when the T was shut down for days.

Simpler technology probably helped. I also remember old stations, old tracks and old signaling system. I think the T still received most of their electricity from their old power station in South Boston. It all seemed to work day in and day out.

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MBTA_kickback_schemes
I remember when this happened. I knew a couple of the people who were indicted.

 

[Fenway]

The Pullman "Bluebird" cars were delivered in 1963 so would have been only 10-20 years old in that time period.

I wonder if a factor is that the technology was a lot simpler back then. Little or no electronics, no ATO just conventional block signaling with train stops.

It is interesting to compare 1978 with the "snowmaggedon" of 2015 when the T was shut down for days.

No doubt advanced technology factors into the equation. Block signaling was reliable but an incident back in 1975 when THREE trains collided between Park and Charles during rush hour sped up ATO.

The Bombardier 1800s on the Red Line came along in 1993 with onboard computers manufactured by Digitial (DEC) but starting about 20 years ago the T could not get parts as DEC was taken over by Compaq in 1998 and it got worse when HP absorbed Compaq in 2002.

The GLX fiasco has everyone pulling out their hair and Eng is tight-lipped right now as he can't explain what happened.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/09/30/metro/et-tu-glx/?p1=StaffPage

Please, not the new Green Line extension!

This was supposed to be the harbinger of our bright future, the gorgeous, state-of-the-art addition to our beleaguered transit system. More than 30 painful years in the making, the extension into Somerville and Medford was going to be a happy respite from the rest of our ancient, messed-up MBTA system.

But no. It turns out that, barely a year after it opened, the tracks on our shiny new lines are defective — too narrow in some places to be safe at normal speeds. In some sections, the trolleys must crawl along so slowly that it would be faster to walk. Everybody, including our top transportation officials, is rightly gobsmacked. And so far, nobody, including those transportation officials, seems to know how it happened. How comforting!

I feel bad for Governor Healy who knew she was inheriting a mess but had no clue it was this bad.

 

[Tlcooper44]

I feel bad for Governor Healy who knew she was inheriting a mess but had no clue it was this bad.

Which is why putting faith in any one politician to fix anything this big, regardless of which side, is unadvisable.

Healy won’t fix the T. She’s incapable of it - it will take years of change across all aspects of government and society. She can take steps, but that’s it.

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

https://www.wcvb.com/article/mbta-resumes-green-line-service-on-union-station-branch/45506145
Some good news for once.

The Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority resumed Green Line train service on the Union Square Branch on Wednesday and lifted speed restrictions on the Green Line Extension after construction work on the Squires Bridge in Somerville was completed ahead of schedule.

MBTA General Manager and CEO Phillip Eng said the MBTA has removed all of the Green Line speed restrictions on both the Union Station branch and the Medford/Tufts Station branch.