Main Hurricane Discussion Thread

[Acela150]

Amtrak just Tweeted that they will restore Acela service to Boston to DC starting tomorrow morning.

Metro North has reopened the New Haven, although they are running on a Sunday schedule today. But I think that has as much to do with lack of crews & riders as it does to do with them trying to finish picking up the pieces.

Beat me by 10 minutes Alan! :lol: Saw it on facebook a minute ago.

 

[Acela150]

Full keystone service tomorrow between PHL and HAR.

 

[PRR 60]

Amtrak just Tweeted that they will restore Acela service to Boston to DC starting tomorrow morning.

That applies to service between Boston and New York only. There is no schedule for resumption south of New York.

 

[NY Penn]

Wow! BIG News!!! Per the "Service Alert" issued today - Monday 8/29/11 - The Maple Leaf is now running WAS - TWO!!! That is great NEWS!!! :lol: -_- :huh:

On a much more somber note, looks like Vermont really got slammed with 7+ inches of rain. Hope all the work that has been done has not been undone.

Here it is. He's not kidding!

Though I'm not as up on the trains as you guys, I did see that and wondered if it was a mistype...or if there's a Washington station in NY?

Someone just screwed things up, the train normally operates Toronto to NY, not Washington. And for the moment, it only operates to Nigara Falls from Toronto.

So, in essence, the Maple Leaf is now exclusively a VIA train. However, it operates using exclusively Amtrak equipment.

 

[jis]

Amtrak just Tweeted that they will restore Acela service to Boston to DC starting tomorrow morning.

That applies to service between Boston and New York only. There is no schedule for resumption south of New York.

That's correct. Water still on tracks south of Trenton. The rails are above water at Trenton platform. But it will be at least another day before anything can operate through there.

After water goes down they will have to ballast and tamp couple of miles worth of four tracks + platform tracks at the station, filling in a few known washouts. There are places where water flowed across the tracks washing away the ballast from under the track. They will have to replace all switch machines and control cables. And then they'll be ready to roll.

Amtrak's tweet said Boston to New York. There was no mention of DC in the context of Acela in it. OTOH service south of DC is getting restored this afternoon.

NJTransit will be operating service between New Brunswick and New York tomorrow. No service to Trenton yet. SEPTA reportedly will operate Levittown to Philly tomorrow, again no service to Trenton.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

I just saw an online news article at "Trains" and the word from Vermont is not good. I'll not go into much detail, and I'll use my own words, but it sounds like there is currently no rail service in Vermont. Bridges that have been around since before 1900 have been knocked out of service, and a bridge that the Ethan Allen runs over is unusable because it appears to have moved. :help:

 

[NJgirl]

I'm supposed to be on the Silver Star on the 6th out of Trenton for my Disney trip. And I've got theater tix for this weekend in NYC.

Let's hope they can get service back in Hamilton/Trenton asap!

Thanks for the update Jis! That's much more info than I've gotten off the news here. Sounds like we may have a shot at restoration of service by the end of the week then?

Has anyone heard what the CSX tracks are like south of WAS? Not sure if VA and NC had any damage to the route the Palmetto ansd Silver Service trains take...

 

[Anderson]

NJgirl,

I'm currently stuck in Florida because of the washouts up north. This is part of why I've generally supported splitting up super-long operations into shorter segments: You can more easily break a subsection.

By the way, is the reason they can't just restore the Silvers through WAS or PHL Sunnyside? Also, why no Star this weekend? It doesn't list on Amsnag.

 

[jis]

Here is what the Port Jervis Line looks like between Sloatsburg and Suffern

it will clearly be a while before service is restored beyond Suffern on the Port Jervis Line.

 

[jis]

I'm supposed to be on the Silver Star on the 6th out of Trenton for my Disney trip. And I've got theater tix for this weekend in NYC.

Let's hope they can get service back in Hamilton/Trenton asap!

Thanks for the update Jis! That's much more info than I've gotten off the news here. Sounds like we may have a shot at restoration of service by the end of the week then?

Has anyone heard what the CSX tracks are like south of WAS? Not sure if VA and NC had any damage to the route the Palmetto and Silver Service trains take...

You're most welcome NJgirl.

It is very likely that service will be restored through Trenton before the end of the week.

Service has been restored today to Richmond VA from Washington DC. Haven't heard anything that would prevent service to Florida from being restored within a few days. But then again, it is not easy to find out about these things precisely.

 

[Acela150]

Amtrak just Tweeted that they will restore Acela service to Boston to DC starting tomorrow morning.

That applies to service between Boston and New York only. There is no schedule for resumption south of New York.

That's correct. Water still on tracks south of Trenton. The rails are above water at Trenton platform. But it will be at least another day before anything can operate through there.

After water goes down they will have to ballast and tamp couple of miles worth of four tracks + platform tracks at the station, filling in a few known washouts. There are places where water flowed across the tracks washing away the ballast from under the track. They will have to replace all switch machines and control cables. And then they'll be ready to roll.

Amtrak's tweet said Boston to New York. There was no mention of DC in the context of Acela in it. OTOH service south of DC is getting restored this afternoon.

NJTransit will be operating service between New Brunswick and New York tomorrow. No service to Trenton yet. SEPTA reportedly will operate Levittown to Philly tomorrow, again no service to Trenton.

I'll confirm the Septa part. On a Septa Facebook post certain trains are cancelled but trains will terminate at Levittown tomorrow.

 

[Anderson]

I'm supposed to be on the Silver Star on the 6th out of Trenton for my Disney trip. And I've got theater tix for this weekend in NYC.

Let's hope they can get service back in Hamilton/Trenton asap!

Thanks for the update Jis! That's much more info than I've gotten off the news here. Sounds like we may have a shot at restoration of service by the end of the week then?

Has anyone heard what the CSX tracks are like south of WAS? Not sure if VA and NC had any damage to the route the Palmetto and Silver Service trains take...

You're most welcome NJgirl.

It is very likely that service will be restored through Trenton before the end of the week.

Service has been restored today to Richmond VA from Washington DC. Haven't heard anything that would prevent service to Florida from being restored within a few days. But then again, it is not easy to find out about these things precisely.

The Trenton troubles are likely to be a problem here. They regrettably can't seem to cut the trains at WAS or PHL (and WAS would actually make sense as having a commissary where orders could at least theoretically be increased for a few days) because they need to get into Sunnyside. At least if Amtrak got folks into WAS, a combo of NER trains and the various NJ Transit/SEPTA services (I think there may be some way to make most of the trip off-corridor) or relatively short (if obnoxious) bus rides would get everyone into NYP.

Actually, this raises a question: Why doesn't Amtrak bustitute Trenton out of PHL and just run the Silvers (at least) over another routing? If the problem is strictly south of TRE, running things over into Camden would seem to make sense...and if it's IN Trenton, isn't there some way to hook up West Trenton SEPTA with the Corridor line?

 

[PRR 60]

I'm supposed to be on the Silver Star on the 6th out of Trenton for my Disney trip. And I've got theater tix for this weekend in NYC.

Let's hope they can get service back in Hamilton/Trenton asap!

Thanks for the update Jis! That's much more info than I've gotten off the news here. Sounds like we may have a shot at restoration of service by the end of the week then?

Has anyone heard what the CSX tracks are like south of WAS? Not sure if VA and NC had any damage to the route the Palmetto and Silver Service trains take...

You're most welcome NJgirl.

It is very likely that service will be restored through Trenton before the end of the week.

Service has been restored today to Richmond VA from Washington DC. Haven't heard anything that would prevent service to Florida from being restored within a few days. But then again, it is not easy to find out about these things precisely.

The Trenton troubles are likely to be a problem here. They regrettably can't seem to cut the trains at WAS or PHL (and WAS would actually make sense as having a commissary where orders could at least theoretically be increased for a few days) because they need to get into Sunnyside. At least if Amtrak got folks into WAS, a combo of NER trains and the various NJ Transit/SEPTA services (I think there may be some way to make most of the trip off-corridor) or relatively short (if obnoxious) bus rides would get everyone into NYP.

Actually, this raises a question: Why doesn't Amtrak bustitute Trenton out of PHL and just run the Silvers (at least) over another routing? If the problem is strictly south of TRE, running things over into Camden would seem to make sense...and if it's IN Trenton, isn't there some way to hook up West Trenton SEPTA with the Corridor line?

The flooding occurred at the Trenton station with water just about up to the elevation of the high level platforms. Any bustitution would have to bypass Trenton entirely. With the volume of service, and it being all electric, there is no way around the problem with trains. It's a matter of the water receding, the flooded tracks and equipment being inspected, and necessary repairs being made.

 

[eagle628]

I just saw an online news article at "Trains" and the word from Vermont is not good. I'll not go into much detail, and I'll use my own words, but it sounds like there is currently no rail service in Vermont. Bridges that have been around since before 1900 have been knocked out of service, and a bridge that the Ethan Allen runs over is unusable because it appears to have moved. :help:

I read the same thing. Two bridges knocked out on the Roxbury and Palmer subdivisions (the Vermonter travels over the Roxbury and part of the Palmer, IIRC), a thousand feet of track gone in Bethel (the tracks follow the White River there through something of a trench below the street level of the town, which makes me think that one of the bridges there probably washed out), and apparently it'll be about a week before everything is reopened, which strikes me as optimistic at best.

 

[jis]

You're most welcome NJgirl.

It is very likely that service will be restored through Trenton before the end of the week.

Service has been restored today to Richmond VA from Washington DC. Haven't heard anything that would prevent service to Florida from being restored within a few days. But then again, it is not easy to find out about these things precisely.

The Trenton troubles are likely to be a problem here. They regrettably can't seem to cut the trains at WAS or PHL (and WAS would actually make sense as having a commissary where orders could at least theoretically be increased for a few days) because they need to get into Sunnyside. At least if Amtrak got folks into WAS, a combo of NER trains and the various NJ Transit/SEPTA services (I think there may be some way to make most of the trip off-corridor) or relatively short (if obnoxious) bus rides would get everyone into NYP.

Everyone appears to be assuming that the Silver Service is not running because of NEC problems, and it seems to have occurred to no one yet that the Auto Train is also not running, and that surely would not be because of NEC problems?

Even if CSX was in fine shape through the Carolinas, where the heck are you going to find the consists for running the Silvers? Half the consists that are normally used are stuck in Sunnyside. At best they could resume one of them WAS - MIA, but only if CSX is able to run them. If CSX was able to run them, one would imagine that the Auto Train would already be running, which it is not AFAICT.

Secondly there is no service to Trenton by either SEPTA or NJTransit at present. So they cannot provide connectivity to New York from Philly. Besides if they could then Amtrak could run their own trains too. It is the same set of 4 tracks that is used by all.

Any bus bridge scheme appears to be more of a logistical nightmare for very little gain, and considerable additional barbs and complaints from passengers because of how poorly it will perform. Considering that this specific problem will clear out in a day or two anyway, why not concentrate on getting the problem fixed instead of diverting energy to Rube Goldberg schemes?

The fact that the Auto Train is not running suggests that there are other CSX issues that prevents service from resuming at present.

The Trenton troubles will get resolved in two or three days max.

Actually, this raises a question: Why doesn't Amtrak bustitute Trenton out of PHL and just run the Silvers (at least) over another routing? If the problem is strictly south of TRE, running things over into Camden would seem to make sense...and if it's IN Trenton, isn't there some way to hook up West Trenton SEPTA with the Corridor line?

Because it is impractical. There is no practically feasible route available for running the Silvers. And if bus bridge was really practical for corridor service no one would bother repairing the corridor. They'd just run bus bridge. So it is fortunate that bus bridge is impractical in some sense.

Now for Camden.... How the heck would anyone run anything into Camden for what I don't understand. Are you looking at a 30 year old map? There is no usable connection from the NEC to the old C&A at Trenton anymore. There is a rickety unmaintained track that connects to Ham but that was under the same 4 feet of water. And where will you go in Camden? Park in the middle of Pavonia Yard? it is not like Camden has a mainline train capable station anymore. The old C&A is now what is called the NJTransit RiverLINE which runs DLRTs at 30min intervals all through the day from Trenton RiverLINE Station to Camden Waterfront. The last few miles over streetcar running tracks, including Walter Rand Center which is where one connects to PATCO.

Oh and once you got to Camden from the north what will you do? A long backup move from Pavonia Yard through Fishhouse, across the Delair Bridge to Shore to Philly? I can see Conrail Shared Assets going bonkers over that one. Never mind that first to get to Camden from the north, if you could get onto the C&A at Ham, you'd have to convince NJT to stop running the RiverLINE for the duration to get FRA mandated temporal separation.

Yes you can get a train from West Trenton to the Corridor through Bound Brook, the old Crusader route. But wait! CSX in Bound Brook is/was under much deeper water, with a washout or too of their own! There is a reason that Bound Brook is referred to as Constricted Creek. The Bound Brook/Manville area is the first to flood in any storm, way before anything happens in Trenton. The NJT track is up and running through Bound Brook today. Don;t know the status of the CSX track towards West Trenton which is at a lower level as it crosses the river.

It is not clear to me why one needs to bend over backwards to run the Florida trains for these few days anyway, Specially when CSX has problems running them even south of Richmond to Florida, or indeed even to Selma, because if they could then the Carolinian could run Washington to Charlotte. Frankly the LD trains even under normal circumstance run at relatively low priority on the NEC, and it is unlikely that they will do any different under emergency conditions.

Just hold on for a day or two and they will all get back to normal.

 

[NJgirl]

Amtrak just replied to someone on their Facebook page that they anticipate Auto Train service in both directions to resume tomorrow.

 

[Anderson]

Ok, let me make a few points:

1) Two of the sets are in Miami, two in Sunnyside for each of the trains (that's four Miami, four Sunnyside). That's why they can presumably start things

2) Amtrak could, in theory, move the Sunnyside consists out of Sunnyside and down to PHL or WAS through a non-revenue route if they needed to (i.e. some segment of the Hudson tunnels had been rendered unusable on an extended basis).

3) Again, if Trenton was looking to be out for a while (more than on a day-to-day basis), they could also route the LD trains around Trenton and offer passage to PHL/NWK as appropriate. With the Regionals, this might not work, but I'd think there was a way around this for at least the LD trains...even if it was so crass as doing the engine swap at Newark a la the Pennsy's Manhattan Transfer.

 

[jis]

Amtrak just replied to someone on their Facebook page that they anticipate Auto Train service in both directions to resume tomorrow.

That's good news indeed. That means at least CSX between Richmond and Florida is good to go tomorrow.

News from Trenton is that they are dumping ballast on the where the washout was. next they bring in tampers to stabilize the track. in parallel they are possibly working the C&S stuff. So if things go well they might have something running by tomorrow or the day after. Again, it is difficult to tell from afar what is exactly going on, but there are reports posted on rr.net by people who are on location about the ballasting work going on today.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Good to see our Eastern/Northeastern Brothers and Sisters back on line! Hopefully the power will be back on soon for everyone, and the damage to the infrastructure can be repaired quickly so everyone can get on with their lives! From what Ive seen Amtrak, the Freight Roads and the other Transit systems are doing a first rate job, looks like Vermont and the middle of New Jersey got it the worst!

On a personal level wondering if Alan and his mom will make it to Canada this weekend, the problem seems to be from NYP-ALB? Thanks to jis and everyone else for the updates, pics etc. Best to all our Northern Brothers and Sisters, Yankees and Sawk Nation! Go Rangers! :lol:

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I saw an article that claimed coming budget cuts and related bureaucratic and budgetary wrangling would make repairing and replacing damaged infrastructure much more tedious and time consuming than in years pasts. Considering how long it took (and continues to take?) to get New Orleans up and running again before all these budget cuts I hope that's not the case.

 

[jis]

Ok, let me make a few points:

1) Two of the sets are in Miami, two in Sunnyside for each of the trains (that's four Miami, four Sunnyside). That's why they can presumably start things

Because the CSX line between Richmond and JAX was not open for service, even if all consists were available there was not going to be any Silver service. The route becomes available starting tomorrow, and immediately the Auto Train starts running. I expect Palmetto and Carolinian will also start running to DC if they can scrounge together enough equipment. We'll see what, if anything is done with the Silver Service. They could run one of those trains between Washington and Miami with ease given what they have available below Trenton.

2) Amtrak could, in theory, move the Sunnyside consists out of Sunnyside and down to PHL or WAS through a non-revenue route if they needed to (i.e. some segment of the Hudson tunnels had been rendered unusable on an extended basis).

Yes that is certainly possible, though given how many routes have breaches now it would be an interesting exercise over the last two days.

3) Again, if Trenton was looking to be out for a while (more than on a day-to-day basis), they could also route the LD trains around Trenton and offer passage to PHL/NWK as appropriate. With the Regionals, this might not work, but I'd think there was a way around this for at least the LD trains...even if it was so crass as doing the engine swap at Newark a la the Pennsy's Manhattan Transfer.

I bet neither CSX nor NS would accept routing over their heavily loaded routes for a semi-regular service without extracting a steep price. What other route do you have in mind? Given said steep price, and the enormous amount of additional and unpredictable amount of time it would take, it is simply not practical IMHO.

Interestingly this very discussion comes up repeatedly every three months or so in rr.net and each time it is comprehensively shot down by the freight and Amtrak guys, and still we go through the cycle with utter regularity. Here for example is an excerpt from a recent message on the subject:

I do agree .... about being tired of hearing the fairly parallel Trenton line could be used for detours. Its all hypothetical but it will never happen. Amtrak would need to deal with 3 different railroads (septa, csx and CSAO). The Trenton line doesn't have the capacity to deal with the 35 plus freight trains on the line now and then once you arrive to Conrail Shared Assets Lehigh Line, you have both CSX and NS and also NJT Raritan trains to deal with for a stretch. The whole route is significantly slower and who would run these trains? Amtrak crews aren't qualified, septa doesn't have enough crews to run what they have and neither do the freight roads. Its a fantasy of mine to see passenger trains to run the whole length of the line but in terms of detours, it ain't gonna happen. Also diesel hauled trains are not allowed to run thru the CCCT and I don't think the P42s are cleared to run thru it. Someone has mentioned a few alternatives which require reverse moves but they too add to the travel time. Since I do this stuff for a living, I've become a realist.

 

[jis]

From Amtrak posting on Facebook:

Limited Northeast Regional service between New Haven and Springfield, Limited Empire Service between Albany/Rensselaer and New York, this afternoon, Auto Train between Sanford, Fla. and Lorton, Va., resumes tomorrow

Amtrak service between New York City and Boston is operating, including all Acela Express trains and most Northeast Regional service. Most Northeast Regional service is operating south of Philadelphia, but no Acela Express, Northeast Regional or other Amtrak trains can operate north of Philadelphia to New York due to flood damage near Trenton, N.J.

Engineering forces continue to work to restore service between Philadelphia and New York. The flood waters near Trenton, N.J, have receded and the track and signal repairs are underway to resume safe operation. Additional update will be provided this evening regarding service for Wednesday, Aug. 31.

The Auto Train operating between Sanford, Fla., and Lorton, Va., will resume on Wednesday, Aug. 31.

Amtrak will continue to provide updates via Amtrak.com, the Customer Contact Centers, Facebook, Twitter and the news media.

Rumor has it that they may be able to get things started up by tomorrow afternoon, and there is a possibility that at least the Crescent and possibly the Star could run tomorrow. But it looks more likely that they will all be restored day after tomorrow. Stay tuned.

 

[jis]

CSX has a washout near Fonda NY on the Empire Corridor, and a possible bridge damage caused by unsecured barges hitting the bridge near Hoffman's, which possibly is about to be fixed. Explains why the Leaf is running only to NFL and not all the way to ALB.

 

[Train2104]

Amtrak is saying that TRE and the Corridor will be back in operation tomorrow.

SEPTA is saying they will still turn at Levittown tomorrow.

NJT hasn't said anything yet.

 

[user 683]

Irene induced floods in Vermont...very devastating!

Refer to http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/us/31floods.html

Amtrak apparently suspends Vermont service indefinitely

Sorry about the link...it worked when I accessed it from Google News...

Here's link to Google News that includes referenced article.

http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=nn