LSL Lake-Effect Snow Cancellations (Was: Tuesday 11/18 LSL cancelled)

[City of Miami]

Yes, once the lake freezes over, the evaporation that happens when warm air moves over the lake will cease since there will be no liquid water to readily evaporate. Watching this event from a meteorological standpoint is extraordinary (I'm a sophomore meteorology major, and we've been talking about this in my classes quite a bit!!)

Wouldn't that logically be "the evaporation that happens when cold air moves over the warmer lake ceases......"?

 

[tonys96]

We were on LSL on 11/15. Snow was about 8 inches deep in Ohio/Penn and falling then. Not sure if it ever stopped......

 

[pennyk]

Please keep the posts on topic: Lake Shore Limited cancellations.

Thank you

 

[jis]

Amtrak did try to run west of Albany yesterday, and the results were in some sense spectacular.... Here is a sample:

MAPLE LEAF #63 left Rochester 34" LT but was 5'01" LT arriving Niagara Falls
EMPIRE SERVICE #284 left Niagara Falls OT but was 12'01" LT arriving Syracuse
LAKE SHORE LIMITED #48 left Buffal-Depew 5'21" LT and arrived Rochester 9'09" LT
MAPLE LEAF #64 left Niagara Falls OT but was 5'25" LT arriving Rochester
Both #48 and #64 managed to overtake #284

No wonder they finally cried "Uncle" and cancelled everything.

BTW, no train was annulled en-route. All trains that started on a journey completed their journey, albeit way way behind schedule.

Also BTW, NY State Thruway was apparently closed west of Rochester all the way to the NY State border, and a state of emergency was declared for that entire area.

132 Mile stretch of NY State Thruway Still Closed

 

[fairviewroad]

Curiously, Adirondack got cancelled today! Speculation is that it is more due to shortage of T&E staff who are out of position stuck at odd places.

Or, it might have something to do with an unrelated trackwork project. ^_^

 

[jis]

Curiously, Adirondack got cancelled today! Speculation is that it is more due to shortage of T&E staff who are out of position stuck at odd places.

Or, it might have something to do with an unrelated trackwork project. ^_^

Ah! Good catch! Thanks!

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

What kind of Railway Snow Removal Equipment is available in that area? I would believe this heavy of snow is well beyond the realm of Spreaders and of course Flangers.

 

[the_traveler]

Just to let you know some of the conditions the LSL encountered (or would have), earlier I believe at the airport (very near the station in Depew - BUF) they received 3" of snow. 8 miles away received 51" of snow! And a large portion of I-90 on both sides of Buffalo has been closed! :excl:

 

[richm49]

I am taking this route Saturday night/Sunday from South Bend to NYP. Should I be worried?

I would be looking to get a seat on the Capitol Limited to NYP at this point. Could be an awful big gamble hoping that service is restored by Saturday with so much snow already on the ground and more on the way.

 

[jis]

Here's I-90 near Buffalo this morning:

Time to pull out your tracked vehicle from your garage and make a go of it I suppose.

 

[Metra Electric Guest]

The lake snow cloud was impressive - like a sharp line through the city. Was just reading about '77. That was actually after the lake had frozen over and was all blowing snow off the lake onto land rather than fresh snow. This may be another long winter (Glad Chicago is mostly out of the lake effect belt except during windstorms from the north or northeast)!

 

[MikefromCrete]

The lake snow cloud was impressive - like a sharp line through the city. Was just reading about '77. That was actually after the lake had frozen over and was all blowing snow off the lake onto land rather than fresh snow. This may be another long winter (Glad Chicago is mostly out of the lake effect belt except during windstorms from the north or northeast)!

I guess you've never been in Northwest Indiana or Southwest Michigan, ME. Even down here in Crete, we often get the backside of lake effect snow.

 

[kwillett2000]

I am taking this route Saturday night/Sunday from South Bend to NYP. Should I be worried?

I would be looking to get a seat on the Capitol Limited to NYP at this point. Could be an awful big gamble hoping that service is restored by Saturday with so much snow already on the ground and more on the way.

Just changed my reservation to the Capitol Limited. If the LSL does indeed run that night I will change it back, but for peace of mind I changed it already.

 

[Ryan]

I think that's a smart move.

Speaking of tracked vehicles, if I lived up there, I'd totally have a set of these:

https://www.mattracks.com



Edit: I would, however, clean the snow off my roof, unlike this chump:

 

[Bierboy]

"Jacksonville" (CSX) should never have been allowed to operate the Water Level Route. The NYC would have had rotary snowplows running.

(Seven feet doesn't sound that weird to those of us who grew up in upstate NY. A bit high, but five feet used to happen fairly regularly. We've had warm weather and relatively light snow for the last few decades -- due to global warming, probably. But snow above your head wasn't that strange when I was young, or in decades previous.)

I had to chuckle at that....

 

[chakk]

Lake effect snow to megadepths also happens in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. I have photos of my parents' homes in the 1930s with tunnels dug from the street to the front door, with snow depths up to the second story.

 

[FreeskierInVT]

Yes, once the lake freezes over, the evaporation that happens when warm air moves over the lake will cease since there will be no liquid water to readily evaporate. Watching this event from a meteorological standpoint is extraordinary (I'm a sophomore meteorology major, and we've been talking about this in my classes quite a bit!!)

Wouldn't that logically be "the evaporation that happens when cold air moves over the warmer lake ceases......"?

Yes, sorry. Cold air moving over warm water over long stretches (called a "fetch") leads to lake (or ocean) effect snow. I didn't have my coffee yet when I posted earlier

 

[KVG_DC]

 

[neroden]

My wife has a friend who lives in the area. She received these in her email this AM.

Reminds me of my childhood. This used to be common, folks. There has actually been a change in the climate making this less common.

What kind of Railway Snow Removal Equipment is available in that area? I would believe this heavy of snow is well beyond the realm of Spreaders and of course Flangers.

Very little equipment -- now. Hence my complaining about Jacksonville Florida management at CSX. The NY Central had multiple rotaries and a lot of wedge plows; I believe CSX has zero rotaries and very few wedges.

 

[DesertRat]

Amtrak did try to run west of Albany yesterday, and the results were in some sense spectacular.... Here is a sample:

MAPLE LEAF #63 left Rochester 34" LT but was 5'01" LT arriving Niagara Falls

EMPIRE SERVICE #284 left Niagara Falls OT but was 12'01" LT arriving Syracuse

LAKE SHORE LIMITED #48 left Buffal-Depew 5'21" LT and arrived Rochester 9'09" LT

MAPLE LEAF #64 left Niagara Falls OT but was 5'25" LT arriving Rochester

Both #48 and #64 managed to overtake #284

No wonder they finally cried "Uncle" and cancelled everything.
BTW, no train was annulled en-route. All trains that started on a journey completed their journey, albeit way way behind schedule.

Also BTW, NY State Thruway was apparently closed west of Rochester all the way to the NY State border, and a state of emergency was declared for that entire area.

132 Mile stretch of NY State Thruway Still Closed

A friend in Rochester said he hadn't seen much snow but the I-90 about 21 miles from his home was a mess with people stuck in their cars.

 

[afigg]

The Maple Leaf #63 and #64 are running today, so service is starting to resume across the affected region. Don't know why they are not running the Empire Service trains from Niagara Falls unless the equipment never got there in the lake effect snow bomb.

 

[Metra Electric Guest]

The lake snow cloud was impressive - like a sharp line through the city. Was just reading about '77. That was actually after the lake had frozen over and was all blowing snow off the lake onto land rather than fresh snow. This may be another long winter (Glad Chicago is mostly out of the lake effect belt except during windstorms from the north or northeast)!

I guess you've never been in Northwest Indiana or Southwest Michigan, ME. Even down here in Crete, we often get the backside of lake effect snow.

Northwest Indiana is not Chicago. My parents lived near Chesterton for many years, I'm more than familiar with the lake effect snow in that area. But Chicago proper doesn't get much lake effect snow thanks to the prevailing winds.

Lake effect snows are crazy - sometimes the shoreline will be at zero visibility but within just a couple of miles the snow will peter out to sunshine. These polar blocks are just going to make more snow and crazy weather.

 

[VentureForth]

The Maple Leaf #63 and #64 are running today, so service is starting to resume across the affected region. Don't know why they are not running the Empire Service trains from Niagara Falls unless the equipment never got there in the lake effect snow bomb.

The way the presser is worded makes it sound like they want to keep the traffic to a minimum because of freight backlog.

 

[jis]

Since CSX has the habit of clogging up their main line tracks by parking backed up freights on them, it becomes necessary to clear them first before anything else can move.

 

[Orangesaint]

It's going to be warning up in the Buffalo area this weekend; and raining, which will create an all new headache for residents of this area.

For LSL passengers anytime soon: What this will mean is that Lake Erie will not be freezing over anytime soon, which makes the area very suspectible to another round of this stuff, though hopefully not as bad, in the next week or two. Keep an eye on the forecasts, and strongly consider rebooking to the Capitol Limited (or Cardinal) if possible.