Lower Level Reserved Seating

[lathamary]

We've taken a couple trips on Amtrak so far. We take the Empire Builder from Fargo, ND to Williston, ND. The first time we travelled, we had normal coach reservations, but the boarding assistant (is that what they're called?) put us in the lower level seating - we didn't know why. But we really liked it! We have a two year old boy and he had a bit of room to play in there without being able to run the full length of the car because it is closed off. Nice for us.

So ever since then, we have reserved lower level reserved seating without any problems. One time there was even another family down there with a little girl and our kids played and it was great.

On this last trip this weekend, on the way to Williston we got a roomette since we hoped to sleep most of the trip and it was fabulous! We boarded at 4 am and slept until 10 am and got off at 11 am. It was great.

However, on the way back we reserved lower level reserved seating since we would be awake for a lot of the trip and our toddler would need room to move around. When we went to board, the boarding assistant refused to put us in the lower level seating because "They are for handicapped only - not for people with kids." (Yes, she was a bit rude about it). So we went up to regular coach but soon I sought her out and said that we reserved lower level seating and we paid extra for lower level seating so we'd like to be down there as it is more convenient with a toddler. She didn't believe that we could reserve lower level because we were not handicaped. We booked online and on Amtrak's website there is nothing about the lower level being for handicapped - not that I could find anyway. She also didn't believe that I paid extra for lower level but it was, in fact, about $70 extra.

She called in her supervisor, or at least he appeared to be her supervisor as he set her straight and said that we reserved lower level so she had to put us in there (although he didn't seem very happy about it either).

The lower level did have only elderly handicapped people in it. But there was room for us (we DID reserve it after all). Since the other passengers were elderly we spent 95% of the trip in the lounge and observation car so that our toddler wouldn't disturb anyone - even though we boarded at 7 pm and got off at 3 am. The people in the lower level seating were very friendly and talked to our toddler and seemed to enjoy having a child in there, but we were cautious about being "disruptive" since the Amtrak employees were so reluctant to put us in there. In short - we felt bad about being in there!

Amtrak employees have never before made me feel unwelcome, but on this trip I felt like I wanted to just get off the train ASAP.

I am confused for the future whether or not I should reserve lower level seating. As I said, the website says nothing about this seating being only for handicapped. It is so nice to ride down there with a child.

The roomettes are too small for anything but sleeping (but they are great for sleeping!) and the family bedroom is so expensive, I really don't want to spend that much.

Any suggestions as to what I should reserve in the future? Would it be worth a call to Amtrak to see what they think or would I most likely not get any answers there?

TIA

Here are a few pictures from our trip:

http://grantandlatha.hopto.org/Latha/05.03/amtrak.html

 

[Trogdor]

I would definitely call Amtrak customer service. They can : 1) let you know what the rule actually is, and/or 2) process a complaint against the train attendant in question.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Yes call Amtrak customer service and tell them what happened.

But as of right now the lower level is only to be sold to people with disabilities or people that have a hard time going up and down the stairs

 

[AlanB]

I have never seen anything that suggests that the lower-level is for handicapped and elderly only. Yes, passengers in those groups may often be the only ones you see down there, but it's not billed as handicapped seating.

Additionally, even the handicapped bedrooms that are specifically held for handicapped passengers, become available to any passenger within 1 week of the trains departure if they haven't been sold, so it's not exclusive.

What I am surprised about is that you paid extra for it. I've never seen that before. While lower level seats are advertised seperately from standard coach, they've always been the same price as regular coach seats.

Regardless however, you were booked and ticketed for a specific type of seat. It is Amtrak's responsability to ensure that you do indeed meet the qualifications needed to book that seat. If they fail to do that, then they must honor their contract with you and place you in the space that you booked.

I would take Robert's advice and call Amtrak, and especially if you remember that attendant's name I would call or write to complain. Note that writing will probably carry more weight than calling.

 

[AlanB]

But as of right now the lower level is only to be sold to people with disabilities or people that have a hard time going up and down the stairs

Matt,

There is no such policy stated anywhere on Amtrak's site or in the new timetable that I've seen. So even if you've been told this by an Amtrak employee they are wrong. Amtrak must publicy announce this or at least require that all reservations for LL seating be taken by a live agent to enforce such a policy.

As long as one can book a LL seat via the website with no warning, then there is no policy or at least none that can be enforced. That ticket is a contract and Amtrak must carry you in the ticketed class, unless the train is overbooked.

 

[Midland Valley]

I don't know why they would make such a fuss about it, on the SWC, when baggage space is all gone, they have had us place our luggage in the lower seating area, which I would think would be a lot less desirable than having a family with a toddler in there.

 

[Guest]

Lower level?

There's more than one?

I'm English, gimme a hand here

 

[Chatter163]

 

[Kath2003]

Cooooooooooooooooooool! That's the coolest train I've EVER seen!

I'm coming over August 2006 for 5 weeks to do some travelling, between Miami and Orlando and along the NE Corridor, will I get to go on a train like that?

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Lower level?There's more than one?

I'm English, gimme a hand here  

You will note the photo provided above by chatter 163, it is two levels. Much long distance equipment,esp. that to and from Western states is double deck, almost the whole train-- lounges, sleepers, diner and lounge.

But many other long distance trains are single level, esp. if they come in or out of NYC and have tunnel clearances to consider.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Cooooooooooooooooooool! That's the coolest train I've EVER seen!
I'm coming over August 2006 for 5 weeks to do some travelling, between Miami and Orlando and along the NE Corridor, will I get to go on a train like that?

No, you will be on various kinds of single level equipment to do that. (You will note the reference to tunnel clearances in the post which I made just before this one. )

 

[AmtrakWPK]

If indeed you will only be traveling up and down the east coast, the only place I know of where they use the Superliner equipment (bi-level) is on the Sunset Limited which does travel the east coast from Orlando to Jacksonville, Florida on the same tracks used by the Silver Star and Silver Meteor (From Jacksonville, it heads west, with an eventual destinaion of Los Angeles). If you were traveling north from Orlando, you could travel Orlando to Jacksonville on the Sunset Limited, then wait for the Silver Star or Silver Meteor at Jacksonville to continue north from there.

The only other way would be for you to hire a car and then travel on AutoTrain from Sanford, Florida to Lorton Virginia (or the other way round). AutoTrain also uses Superliners, but you cannot travel that train without also bringing along a personal vehicle.

The reason for single-level-only equipment in the northeast is old, narrow, low-clearance tunnels and that sort of thing. Elsewhere, that is not a problem, but it is the reason the New York to Miami trains can't use the bi-level equipment.

 

[Trogdor]

Here's a note from an Amtrak employee:

There are 13 sellable accommodations on the lower level of Superliner 34000-series coach cars.
1 occupied wheelchair parking area.  For passengers who remain in their wheelchairs enroute.  No seat here, just an open space.  May only be booked by passengers who self-identify as having a mobility impairment.

2 wheelchair transfer seats.  You can roll into the car in your wheelchair, then transfer to one of these two seats.  (They face the occupied wheelchair parking area.)  You may fold and store your wheelchair nearby.  If it's a motorized chair and can't be folded, Amtrak will give you the occupied wheelchair parking area free so you can put it there.  May only be booked by passengers who self-identify as having a mobility impairment, or who have a disability that requires them to bring a large service animal (large dog or assistance horse - www.guidehorse.com ).

The rest of this post talks about the --

10 lower level seats, reservable in Arrow as such.  THIS IS NOT ACCESSIBLE SEATING.  THIS IS NOT HANDICAPPED SEATING.  May be booked by ANY PASSENGER at ANY TIME, first come first served.  Passengers who do not have mobility impairments but who do know they will have difficulty with the stairs (can't go up and down all the time), who need to go to the washroom often, etc., can book a lower level seat and once booked are guaranteed to have it.  You must have a ticket that reads "lower level seat" in order to sit here, but, again, ANYONE may reserve and buy that ticket.

Paper signs posted on the door to this area that say otherwise are wrong.

The controversy probably arose from the fact that up until a few years ago this lower level seating was obtained through a special service request - the inventory could not be separately booked, it was just part of the regular coach inventory.  There are no capacity controls on requests, of course - requests aren't inventory.  So the reality was no matter how far in advance you put in the request, the first 10 people to show up at the first few stations who had requests got the seats.  After that, the fun began, and the on-board staff had to start playing Solomon and decide who was more worthy than who and who had to be sent upstairs and who would be allowed to stay.  This led to interesting catfights on board.  So, now, it's simple.  If you know you need this seat because you need to be near the restroom, for example, you book it.  Once done, it's yours, even if you are not boarding at the origin station.  Other people who might book there could include a mom with a small child or two who doesn't want to be upstairs where there is a lot of foot traffic passing through the car, and who wants to be near the washroom so she can change diapers more easily.  People who may think of booking there just because they think the small room is way-cool for some reason or other should book regular seating upstairs, but are not prohibited from booking downstairs.

Sometimes situations arise with first-time passengers who don't know that there is lower level seating, who don't realize that most of the accommodation is upstairs and the washrooms are not, board, find the lower level seats for the first time, and now want to sit there because of difficulty with stairs or the need to visit the conveniences every 30 minutes.  The on-board staff may ask those seated downstairs if one of them would like to volunteer to trade.  Normally this passenger will book lower level for future trips, once he or she knows about it.

 

[Kath2003]

If indeed you will only be traveling up and down the east coast, the only place I know of where they use the Superliner equipment (bi-level) is on the Sunset Limited which does travel the east coast from Orlando to Jacksonville, Florida on the same tracks used by the Silver Star and Silver Meteor (From Jacksonville, it heads west, with an eventual destinaion of Los Angeles). If you were traveling north from Orlando, you could travel Orlando to Jacksonville on the Sunset Limited, then wait for the Silver Star or Silver Meteor at Jacksonville to continue north from there. The only other way would be for you to hire a car and then travel on AutoTrain from Sanford, Florida to Lorton Virginia (or the other way round). AutoTrain also uses Superliners, but you cannot travel that train without also bringing along a personal vehicle.

The reason for single-level-only equipment in the northeast is old, narrow, low-clearance tunnels and that sort of thing. Elsewhere, that is not a problem, but it is the reason the New York to Miami trains can't use the bi-level equipment.

How annoying! I wanted to go on a train with two levels! Ah well, can't be picky ;-)

I'm flying from Orlando up to Washington DC simply because it works out cheapest and fastest to do so - when you've got a set budget, you wanna make the most of your vacation and spending a day on a train isn't my idea of a vacation!

I also can't afford to hire a car: we're two single 21-year-old females travelling alone and although both of us drive in the UK, we're not confident enough to drive in the US, and the cost is phenomenal. We're going to be out in the US for about 33 days are going to try and do it all using public transport.

Our stops are:

Miami (3 nights) - the beach/recovery from a 10 hour flight part!

train to Orlando (8 nights) - Disney World and probably Discovery Cove

fly to Washington DC (4 nights) - toursity-things

train to Philadelphia (3 nights) - not really sure what there is to do there? cream cheese?

train to Boston (4 nights) - have always wanted to go, wanna see the Cheers pub!

train to NYC (5 nights) - I've always longed to go to NYC! I wanna do it ALL! I also wanna see the ghostbuster fire station and do a sex and the city tour. And see ground zero.

flight to Detroit (4 nights) - visiting relatives of my travel-buddy.

Recommendations etc. welcome! I've done Orlando a few times before but I've never been to any of the other places. I know it's not strictly trains but I'm sure y'all can cope

Cheers!

 

[AmtrakWPK]

We've lived in the Orlando area since 1971. If you're planning to be in the Orlando area for 8 days, you might want to take a day to do a tour of the Space Center, where they launched all the Apollo moon rockets, and where they launch the Space Shuttles. It's on the Florida East Coast, perhaps an hour or less from Disney. There is an actual Apollo launch vehicle on display there, on it's side, that you can walk right up to, and it is absolutely awesome. It lets you actually get a feel for the huge sizes involved. Up close it is almost incomprehensible that they managed to get something that enormous off the ground, much less to the moon and back. Also, of course, you have Daytona Beach, roughly an hour and a half from Disney. The water is pretty cold right now (well, for Floridians anyway - about 71 F) but by August it should be up in the low 80's F. The beach is miles long and beautiful. I would also suggest a day in Tampa, perhaps to include the Busch Gardens park, an analog to the theme parks at Orlando, or perhaps to visit the beaches in the Clearwater/St. Petersburg area on the Gulf of Mexico. The water on the Gulf Coast beaches is usually so calm, and warm (by August), that it's like a bathtub. I am assuming you will also visit Sea World in Orlando.

Since you are starting in Miami, I would absolutely take at least a one day trek to Key West and then dawdle on the way back. The sights, sounds, and smells on the roughly 130 mile trip along US Route 1 down to Key West are purely magnificent, to the point that if my wife and I ever retire, that's where we want to go. Probably to Marathon, which is roughly halfway down the Keys. If you snorkel or dive, in fact, a short visit down to the Keys to do that is absolutely mandatory. And taking AT LEAST a couple of days in the Keys is MUCH more worthwhile than spending 8 straight days at theme parks in Orlando. The water down in the Keys almost defies description in it's color, clarity and just overall beauty. And the water temperature in August should be in the mid to upper 80's F. The weather will be quite hot, especially by UK standards (no getting around that), but still, magnificent. Assuming no tropical storms, etc., it's usually a clear to partly-cloudy beautiful blue sky, light breezes, with rarely a short shower. The heat is actually less oppressive on the coast or in the Keys than it will be in Orlando.

We've been to the theme parks of course, but if given the choice, give me the Keys ANY day!!. We're hoping to get down there sometime in August as well. It's about a 6 - 7 hour drive for us from here.

Disney World, Epcot, Universal, Animal Kingdom, Sea World, et al are nice, but I sure wouldn't waste 8 days at them when there is so much more of Florida that you could see while you're over here. So much of this State is magnificent. And August is THE time for watersports in Florida.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for such a great post!

Our problems are this:

1. budget

2. public transport - NO CAR

I've been to Orlando many times (6th time this summer coming) and have to say I was thoroughly disappointed with the Space Center when we went. I can't see it being easy to get to via public transport either?

Daytona Beach I'd love to do but again I can't see it being easily accessible. I've been to Clearwater and was disappointed by the beach there - I much prefer the beaches down near Naples/Fort Myers area where I vacation every year with my family.

Tampa I've been to twice to do Busch Gardens - that place really is a dump! One time we got really lost and ended up in an area with iron bars on the windows and chickens wandering the streets...yeah, it was weird.

We'll definitely be doing Sea World because it's such a lovely park. My friend who I'll be going with has chosen Disney World over Universal Studios. I'd far rather do Universal Studios because I think they're much better parks but I've obviously done them all before (and I'll be re-doing Universal/Islands this summer), so I think it's only fair that she gets to choose as she's never been to the states before, let alone WDW!

Again, with the keys, I can't see it being cheap and easy to get there by public transport for the two of us. However, this summer I am going to stay on Marathon Key for a week with my family and we'll be popping down to Key West and I really cannot wait! We're going to swim with the dolphins and go snorkelling at the Penecamp state park (we don't snorkel or dive but my sisters and I used to train as swimmers). The heat doesn't bother me - we stay near Naples most summers for 2-3 weeks and I cope fine (the rest of the family wilt, though). I'm a sun-worshipper!

The reasons for the 8 nights in Orlando is Libby's never done Disney before. We're assuming one day for the three WDW theme parks (because lets face it, EPCOT sucks), one day for Typhoon Lagoon (gotta love that place!), one day for Discovery Cove, one day for Sea World and one spare day. It's cheap and I LOVE Orlando. We're staying on I-Drive because it's easier to get around to restaraunts etc. using the I-Ride trolley. Any recommendations of bars etc. would be good - anyone done Pleasure Island? I've also seen lots of Florida: Sarasota, Tampa, Orlando, Clearwater, Naples, Fort Myers and this summer the Keys are to be added to the list. I also cannot WAIT to do Miami - I wanna drink cocktails on South Beach!

I'm also now considering adding Chicago onto the trip, just before detroit - is it worth it, since it'd cost about $350 extra for 3 nights?

 

[engine999]

There probably are various private bus lines that operate pretty expensive routes to the space center from orlando. You could get to Daytona via a shuttle bus that run from the Orlando International Airport or Amtrak to Deland and then a "thruway" to Daytona Beach Side. The thruway i believe is actually a subcontracted cab, but it cost less then a cab fare from Deland all the way to Daytona most likely.

 

[Kath2003]

There probably are various private bus lines that operate pretty expensive routes to the space center from orlando. You could get to Daytona via a shuttle bus that run from the Orlando International Airport or Amtrak to Deland and then a "thruway" to Daytona Beach Side. The thruway i believe is actually a subcontracted cab, but it cost less then a cab fare from Deland all the way to Daytona most likely.

Thanks for that - if we're not done with the beach by the time we're through with Miami, we'll be sure to pay Daytona Beach a visit (I've never visited the Atlantic side of FL).

So: what are the differences between UK trains and Amtrak? Besides our extortionate prices vs your extremely reasonable ones? I live in Exeter which is about 150 miles from London to the South-West (in Devon), as a student, and to go home to London it costs me £31 return. That's with a student rail card which knocks 33% off the price, too! It's only a 2 hour trip each way.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Oh, good, you are going to the Keys this year. Check out Bahia Honda State Park, a few miles beyond the 7 mile bridge after you leave Marathon (on the way to Key West). Outstanding beach, and areas off the beach that are not white sand bottom are like swimming in an aquarium, thousands of tropical fish, schools of small squid, Florida lobster (they don't have claws), lots of small rays, and that sort of thing, but still shallow enough to just stand up in if you get tired swimming. Take a mask and snorkel, for sure...

 

[AmtrakFan]

With the Lower Level seating I have seen young people sit down in it they assign you the seats.

 

[Kath2003]

Oh, good, you are going to the Keys this year. Check out Bahia Honda State Park, a few miles beyond the 7 mile bridge after you leave Marathon (on the way to Key West). Outstanding beach, and areas off the beach that are not white sand bottom are like swimming in an aquarium, thousands of tropical fish, schools of small squid, Florida lobster (they don't have claws), lots of small rays, and that sort of thing, but still shallow enough to just stand up in if you get tired swimming. Take a mask and snorkel, for sure...

Thanks for the advice, I'll recommend it to my parents as they're kinda unsure about what to entertain three girls (20, 18 and 15) with for a week down there. Personally I'd be happy to sit and crisp nicely in the sun but I think my sisters would get bored.

We LOVE Bonita Springs on the SW Gulf - the most beautiful beach I've ever been to. In fact, I just love the sunshine and warmth so Florida suits me perfectly!