Love for Amtrak is Waning... But...

[VentureForth]

My wife says the thing that she hates about me the most is my impulsive nature. I find a hobby and wear it out after going all in for a couple of months. But my love for Amtrak has lasted the better part of a third of my life. My only regret is that I haven't had an opportunity to ride it more frequently.

The service cuts, the higher prices - all things that it needs to remain afloat - as well as the changes in AGR (which I don't fully understand yet, but I'm so Anti-Bank of America, that I probably won't switch over) are giving me the urge to throw in the towel.

Y'all probably haven't even noticed that I haven't been here very much lately. The same stories, same problems, same accidents, same politics.... So draining.

But...

For the first time since I've moved to Savannah, I started seeing TV ads while watching COPs, I think, or maybe The Voice.

Brought a tear to my eye.

I love rail travel. I hope to cash out my points before too long. I sure don't want them wasted.

Sorry - a bit of a downer post, I know.

 

[Chey]

You spoke for me as well, and probably others. I've had the attitude that when I cash in my points, that's it.

But somehow I think that *won't* be it. Because I have loved trains and riding trains since I was very young. I don't think it's possible to undo that love..

 

[HARHBG]

Heard it on a TED Talk.....an Architect talking about America today vrs. where America needs to go to remain viable...

..........."With a train system (Amtrak) that would make the Bulgarian's ashamed...".............

 

[andersone]

life is full of cycles,, an ebb and flow,,, I just got back from a weird CZ ride where we had a death on the way out where we sat for an hour waiting on the coroner and a medical emergency on the way back in the middle of nowhere Colorado with an hour waiting on the EM folks,,,, still got the tickets for next spring to make the great circle from Galesburg to the Grand Canyon to LA to Yosemite and back,,, with no plans to change ... go with the flow, do what's right, just don't become a bowler

 

[willem]

"A bad day on the golf course is better than a good day in the office."

My update on that witticism would be that a bad day on the train would be better than a good day on the plane. I rode Amtrak for several years before joining AGR and before finding this site. The degradation in service is lamentable, the devaluation of points is unfortunate, Amtrak's focus on the NEC is discouraging, and the increase in fares seems to outstrip inflation significantly (and it is certainly faster than the rise in my disposable income). However, I expect to keep riding trains. The real hit to train riding will be caused by a change in destinations from cities served by Amtrak to national parks.

Long ago, I lived in California. An acquaintance suggested that I must really love it there because of the cutting edge technology. After pondering a moment, I replied that the best in California might be better than the best anywhere else, but the average in California was worse than the average anywhere else. I further opined that the reason is the endless suppy of new customers. A business could mistreat and annoy everyone who walked through the door and there would still be more people to mistreat and annoy. Amtrak (long distance, not northeast corridor) is like that. Year after year, ridership increases as amenities are cut. The situation is exacerbated by the limited capacity.

Amtrak is both the best game in town and the average game in town, by being the only game in town. I'll continue to play, but it will be more by necessity than for recreation, and so it won't be as often.

 

[dlagrua]

There is only so much that you can do to increase revenue by raising fares and taking away amenities. After you reach a certain point the customer base diminishes very quickly.

The other day I checked fares from PHL to CHI on the Cardinal. Roomettes were an exorbitant $611 while the bedroom fare was almost $1100. Thats for a one way overnight sleeper trip to Chicago in a poorly maintained sleeper and some cafe style food thrown in. Now Amtrak 2.0 comes along and the points total for that trip rises as well.

The coaches were still full to capacity on our Aug 2nd trip but the sleepers were not full. Point is that if you keep increasing the prices of sleepers and giving passengers less you ultimately end up with less revenue not more. It needs to be remembered that salaries are going down while prices are rising. Let's see what happens when 2016 rolls around when Viewliner II sleepers come available and the full effect of AGR 2.0 hits.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Excellent post dlagrua! Ditto!

 

[CHamilton]

Agreed. Amtrak is, I think, betting that they will hold onto their NEC ridership no matter what, and with very few exceptions (like us) long-distance sleeper travelers are not repeat customers. I think they're wrong, and they are doing damage to the company's reputation that will take a long time to repair.

 

[jebr]

Charlie, while I agree with your final point that damage is being done to the reputation of Amtrak, I'd disagree with you that they think that NEC travel is extremely sticky. The bonuses for Acela travel reflect that, and the fact that even under the new system not a ton has changed along the NEC spine is reflective of that.

As for sleepers, I'm not sure if they see it as one-time-only or just that the travelers are especially "sticky" and unlikely to change. I would hope that they're reviewing statistics of repeat riders carefully, and have determined that the changes they've made will not lose those sticky customers. I do think that there are definite changes needing to be made on sleeper amenities and that cutting those is a bad idea, along with cutting the quality and variety of food in the diner. (I'm glad to see that the salad is more substantial lately, and hope that they realize that entrees should also be more robust.)

 

[jis]

See my post also relevant to this thread at http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/65219-Amtrak-Guest-Rewards-2%2E0-Coming-January-2016/page__view__findpost__p__624375

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Even with the massive devaluation of AGR Amtrak could still keep me as a passenger with substantially lower priced sleepers to go along with the worse scheduling, reduced amenities, and lower quality food. I doubt that's something Amtrak is considering but if they are I'll still take them when it makes sense. In the meantime the vast majority of my domestic travel has switched over to airlines and personal vehicles with Amtrak serving mainly as a temporary distraction when I'm bored.

 

[tonys96]

I agree with the OP. While it is true that I rediscovered Amtrak travel as a single male, it became a lot more fun while the Tejanita and I were together. Since we have split, traveling coach for any long distance is unlikely, and the cost of rooms are out of sight (example: Dal to HOS, in roomette first week of December is over $750), after burning my points, LD train travel will mostly become a thing of the past. Seriously considering getting a SWA credit card, they often offer points bonuses at the State Fair of Texas....

My Amtrak travel will likely consist of maybe one trip DAL to LVW a year, and one FTW to OKC every other year.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Press release from Amtrak/AGR:

Return with us to those thrilling days of yester-year as we copy SPs " Run 'em off" Policies so we can get rid of those pesky LD Trains that lose so much money.

Also, watch in amazement as we copy the Airlines by nickel and diming customers, charging more for less service on shoddy equipment, cutting food and beverage quality while raising prices, and best of all discouraging those pesky AGR members who "Game" the system by using free points to take joy rides call over the country on Long Distance Trains, thus costing us millions in revenue!

Don't expect full disclosure any time soon, details are top secret and the customers don't have a need to know.

Thanks for riding Amtrak,but only if you live on the NEC or a lesser Corridor, and remember our new slogan:

" Amtrak: Less for you for more!"

Good thing this can't actually happen!

 

[dlagrua]

I believe that many of the LD travelers are taken back by what is happening of late. Its only when ridership drops that we can expect a reaction. Perhaps the plan is to make it so unaffordable that it becomes easy to get rid of LD sleeper service BUT on the other hand that the highest source of Amtrak's revenue are the sleeper cars.

We have been able to augment our summer LD trips with AGR points and just bite the bullet on the return trip. If we cannot at the very minimum get a return trip on points (that BTW is paid for by merchants and the bank) passenger train travel loses all value to us. Time will tell, but if the service keeps charging more and providing less while incomes continue flat or edge farther down, LD sleeper ridership has to fall.

Perhaps the basis for the question in the recent survey on the flat turning seats in coach will be Amtraks desire to transform sleeper class to sleeper coach. Then Amtrak can revert back to the days of the Pullman section but without the curtains.

 

[Sauve850]

Im thankful we got away with the AGR point system for as long as we did. I have looked out to my next trip in summer 2016 from west coast to east coast and its really not bad for my plans anyway. I jumped all over the new card. Actually have two coming and will bank the points and use one of the cards for all purchases to gain as many new points as possible. I don't care if the card is Citi , BOA or Bank of New Zealand. As long as I get the points each month it works.

So I will continue to travel on LD trains and my bedrooms will be dated and the food will be marginal ( except breakfast imo) as it has been for many years but I still will enjoy my travels on time or not. I try to have contingency plans and luckily have only had to use twice in maybe 15-20 trips.

As a writer stated earlier its go with flow for me too.

 

[Ryan]

There is only so much that you can do to increase revenue by raising fares and taking away amenities. After you reach a certain point the customer base diminishes very quickly.

The other day I checked fares from PHL to CHI on the Cardinal. Roomettes were an exorbitant $611 while the bedroom fare was almost $1100. Thats for a one way overnight sleeper trip to Chicago in a poorly maintained sleeper and some cafe style food thrown in. Now Amtrak 2.0 comes along and the points total for that trip rises as well.

You've been singing this tune of gloom since you joined here over 5 years ago. As I just mentioned in the other thread, LD ridership has been up in every one of those years but one.

Also, despite ridership being up 3.5% over last year, LD revenue is down 3.7% over last year. That means passengers are paying less, not more than they have in the past.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Must be all those foamers "gaming the system!"

 

[jis]

For some facts do not seem to matter when they are on a roll

 

[Kat314159]

It may well go directly to some archive folder of stuff customers think would work. However, it couldn't hurt to voice some of this feedback to Amtrak. I sent them an email outlining why thier new system sticks in my craw.

 

[Pastor Dave]

Not much to add to this topic other than to say that whenever I take a trip my reaction is either, "This is the last time I'm ever wasting my time and effort on Amtrak again," to, "I can't wait for the next trip." But that being said, no matter my initial reaction I'm always getting back on at some point.

 

[benale]

Our LD trip this past June on AGR points will probably be our last for some time. We've taken LD trips on points for several years. Those 100 point minimums really added up,especially during Double Days. As great as the trip was we noticed declines in amenities..no free wine tasting on The Coast Starlight, no welcome champagne on the Builder and the Starlight, coffee only available in the morning, no ice, same exact food on every train,etc. As other posters have mentioned, the long distance sleeper traveler is last on Amtrak's priority list after Acela and Business Class with a heavy emphasis on the NE Corridor.

I'm accumulating Double Points now with several inexpensive trips planned in the next two months and I'll cash them in before the end of the year for a nice trip next year. I love train travel. I've been riding Amtrak every year since 1990 cross country and back. I've ridden coach and sleepers. The price of sleepers has gone way out of control. Yes, I know supply and demand, but $600 for one night on the Cardinal? Outrageous! .

 

[warrencbennett]

You know, I am new to this forum but I had some thoughts on this post. The first is that I love train travel, not Amtrak specifically. I take Amtrak because that is the main way to ride the train in this country. It there were other options, I'd look into them but there really isn't. The second is I guess I'm in a minority because i don't really look for amenities and such on the train. I bring my own stuff with me, such as food and entertainment and the like. I'd love to get a 'room' and not just a seat, but those have always been out of my price range. I remember the rooms costing around 400 to 500 bucks back in 2000 when I first road an Amtrak train, so the price they are now doesn't really surprise me. I also always brought food with me because the dining car and the cafe have always been really expensive. I guess I'm just not rich, so some of the prices have always seemed outlandish to me. I always figured it was like eating at a sports stadium: They have a trapped customer base so they can charge anything they want. The third thing is that I'm not riding to accumulate points for guest rewards. Those are a nice bonus (I suppose. I didn't know they existed until a week or two ago) but I ride the train for the enjoyment of traveling.

I'm sure not everyone is comfortable sleeping in a coach seat or bringing their own food - but I just think the OP should think about the enjoyment of the ride more than what amenities and such Amtrak offers. I mean, I'm able to see the country from almost literally one end to the other for under $200 bucks. That is amazing. Riding on a train forces me to destress as well. There is nothing I can do about anything happening back home or at my destination. I either don't worry about it or spend 3 days in a metal tube going nuts. I choose to not think about it.

Maybe the love of Amtrak is waning because the OP is forgetting what the love of traveling by rail is like. Traveling by train isn't the easiest thing in the world but it is something that is both rewarding and and unique. My last train trip wasn't the most fun, but I took a bus across country on from NY to Arizona last year - Let me tell you that whatever you think about Amtrak services, it is 100 percent better than riding the old gray dog.

Anyway Didn't mean to intrude.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Nobody is expecting deluxe amenities or special treatment in coach. In fact I don't expect much of anything at all. If things get bad in coach it's basically Lord of the Flies unless and until the conductor feels like dealing with it. Meanwhile in the sleepers we're paying several times the price of a coach ticket, including when we buy AGR points, and in return we're expecting more service for that money. Amtrak's network is so sparse and so slow that I'm often forced to fly to catch a train. As a result I have to pack light and can't drag several days worth of food and drink behind me. I wouldn't consider myself rich either, but I do expect value for money, and at today's prices Amtrak sleeping compartments are competing with first class airfare. At this rate in a few years Amtrak may be competing with cross country limo service or even charter aircraft. I'm not sure why you apparently think full service sleeper tickets should be viewed through the lens of a limited service coach ticket, but I would have to disagree.

 

[warrencbennett]

Hah, yah. I'm just part of the great unwashed group of plebes back in coach I understand you want what you pay for, but sometimes you just gotta sit back and enjoy the ride.

Anyway - here's to hoping things turn around for ya. *Lifts up a pint then quaffs it*

 

[Chucktin]

Ridding Amtrak back from 10 days in PA. Wife didn't want to fly or drive. Just 1/2 hour ago she said "Should've flown". $ and time and effort and finally ...