LD Train Travel Then vs now

[dlagrua]

Having just begun regularly using trains for LD train travel 8 years ago, I always wonder what it was like traveling during rhe golden age of passenger rail. Today we have far fewer routes, many major cities are no longer served, many beautiful train stations lie closed or fallen to the wrecking ball but long distance trains still survive. The porters (now called SCA's) are still doing their job, the dining cars still serve decent meals and the sleeping accomodations are very similar to what was offered way back when. So what are the main differences?

From reading many books on the subject it appears that the main changes are that todays trains are rather stark and utilitarian. If you look at pictures of say the 20th Century Limited, you will see the use of beautiful hardwoods, wooden furniture, nice carpeting, venetian blinds, lovely curtains and the crews were impecibly dressed (as where the passengers). The dining cars offered wider and more gourmet food choices and it was common to see a whilte tablecloth and a vase of fresh flowers on the table. In the dining cars tables and chairs were used instead of the booths that we now see but the sleepers (except for the Pullman section cars) appear very much as they did back in the day. I determined this after touring many of the old sleeping cars at many RR museums and riding on tourist trains. Trains during the 30's, 40's and 50's also had more than one observation car, a lounge and many had two dining cars. It appeared that train travel was far more elegant back then but it had to be as fares were fixed by the government and railroads had to compete for business by offering better amemities. Today while the glamour is gone we at least have something to enjoy the experience

If there is anyone here who has researched the subject or had the opportunity to expereince travel during that period please share your experience.

 

[MrFSS]

 

[PRR 60]

I rode several of the better trains of the day back in 1963 on a trek around the country in coach: The PRR "General", the California Zephyr, The SP "Lark", and the ATSF "El Capitan." I was also an avid railfan back then and spent many an hour at North Philadelphia Station watching the parade of trains come through. Here are some general thoughts:

The quality of rail travel was very uneven. The best trains were better than anything today. The lesser trains were much worse than Amtrak. For every elegant train like the Broadway Limited there were multiple trains like the Manhattan Limited that were pretty ratty. The PRR General was kind of in between. It was OK, but a Amfleet II or Superliner coach would be better. The California Zephyr and the El Capitan were as good as it gets, at least in coach.

The coach travel on the CZ and the El Capitan was much better than Amtrak coach. On the CZ, each coach had about 48 seats, and each had a dome section with 24 open seats for those 48 passengers. I spent hours up in that dome, day and night. Each car had bathroom facilities under the dome, and the men's and women's rooms were large with multiple stalls, multiple sinks, and chairs for dressing.

The onboard service was quite different than today. Racial relations through the 1960's were not at all like today. The porters of the era were almost exclusively African-American and were more like servants than passenger service personnel. Same with the dining car staffs. Rail travel on the better trains was a social throw-back kind of locked in the 1930's south.

Dining car food was much better than today. The meals were more varied and more reflective of the owning railroad and region. And, of course, everything was prepared on-board.

The trains had unique personalities. The California Zephyr could not be mistaken for The El Capitan. The General could not be mistaken for The Lark. Excepting for the top eastern trains like the Broadway and the 20th Century Limited, the trains west of Chicago were much better than the trains east of Chicago.

Maybe the biggest difference between then and now is financial. All travel back then was expensive. Frequent travelers had to be wealthy. For middle class folks, travel was something you saved years to do. The adult round trip fare in coach for my journey in 1963 was $180. That equals $1300 today. Including family discounts, we paid about $400, or about $3000 in 2011 dollars. Pullman would have at least tripled that cost. We could not deal with that.

In short, some things were better then, and some are better now. The big plus today is that hopping on a train and taking a trip does not require you to be John Paul Getty or Bill Gates.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Maybe the biggest difference between then and now is financial. All travel back then was expensive. Frequent travelers had to be wealthy. For middle class folks, travel was something you saved years to do. The adult round trip fare in coach for my journey in 1963 was $180. That equals $1300 today. Including family discounts, we paid about $400, or about $3000 in 2011 dollars. Pullman would have at least tripled that cost. We could not deal with that.

In short, some things were better then, and some are better now. The big plus today is that hopping on a train and taking a trip does not require you to be John Paul Getty or Bill Gates.

Especially if you have enough AGR points......

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

A huge subject.

Some things which are better today: showers, computerized reservations (of course that goes with the culture),food available in the lounge car, trays in the coaches, consistent leg rests in the long distance coaches, working with one company (NOTE:a very few showers existed, I am mean very few).

What do I miss most, as a railfan? The great variety of kinds of trains and kinds of equipment. As PRR said you would never confuse the General with the Lark. Of course one of the places where many trains looked about alike in the old days was in the NE corrider. But there were exceptions even there. Such as the stainless steel Senator and Congressional.

Wide difference in quality. For example, the premier streamlined Crescent and the Southerner took about 14 hours to go from

Washington to Atlanta. But over the same route there was a nameless local, #135 and #136, which made over 110 stops, many of them flags, and took 24 hours and had no diner, lounge or sleeper.There were three other train sort of in between those extremes.

I could multiply that by a thousand examples.

Trains with lightweight equipment (often stainless steel) and with faster schedules, nicer equipment were generally called streamliners. I say that because I think some people think all the trains were streamliners in the "streamlined era" but that is not so. More like about one third. Today every single train is lightweight, which has rendered the word "streaminer: as useless. Sort of like advertising them as "air conditioned" or having "reclining seats", or being "diesel powered" (outside the NE corrider, that is).

I tend to agree that the best was better than Amtrak and the worst was worse.

There were many more things like set out sleepers, such things as happens with the Sunset Limited and the Texas Eagle in San Antonio. All those kinds of switching happened much more, percentage wise and were fascinating to us fans.

Back to those slow trains, keep in mind that many of them carried much much mail,including first class letters, way more than anything that has happened under Amtrak.

Then again, it hard to beat a bedroom (with shower) upstairs in today's Superliner equipment, even if they all look substantially alike (I am not talking about curtains,slight details in the room,etc).

Several things have been mentioned recently about various designs for lounge cars and such. Keep in mind that there were many kinds of sleeping cars, also, besides 10 roomettes and six bedrooms, those were rather common and Amtrak settled on them for uniformity.

As for levels of courtesy, etc, that is so subjective and I can think of so many instances either way between the railroads and Amtrak.

Without question, there were more,sometimes many more trains. But they were most assuredly not all deluxe streamliners of the Super Chief ilk!! No way!!

 

[Anderson]

Maybe the biggest difference between then and now is financial. All travel back then was expensive. Frequent travelers had to be wealthy. For middle class folks, travel was something you saved years to do. The adult round trip fare in coach for my journey in 1963 was $180. That equals $1300 today. Including family discounts, we paid about $400, or about $3000 in 2011 dollars. Pullman would have at least tripled that cost. We could not deal with that.

Ok, this is an interesting point because of what happened to airfares: I seem to recall that a coach airline ticket in 1960 from NYC-LA back then was about $250...which is over $2000 today. Today, a last-minute airfare is $700-800 on that route, but with a few weeks' notice you can get a round trip ticket on that route for under $300, fees included.

Edit: Viewing the Super Chief video, the only "real" difference I've noted in how I'd be traveling is the lounge car situation. The food is still excellent (short of an ultra-expensive steakhouse, I'll recommend an Amtrak steak over just about anywhere else) and the roomette shown in the video is not unlike the first roomette I had on the Lake Shore Limited a few years back (which still had the toilet and sink facilities included).

 

[Larry H.]

Maybe the biggest difference between then and now is financial. All travel back then was expensive. Frequent travelers had to be wealthy. For middle class folks, travel was something you saved years to do. The adult round trip fare in coach for my journey in 1963 was $180. That equals $1300 today. Including family discounts, we paid about $400, or about $3000 in 2011 dollars. Pullman would have at least tripled that cost. We could not deal with that.

In short, some things were better then, and some are better now. The big plus today is that hopping on a train and taking a trip does not require you to be John Paul Getty or Bill Gates.

Especially if you have enough AGR points......

Gee, I almost hate to comment here, but I don't have that recollection at all. We often went first class and the price never seemed high. I was not making any money then and don't now, but it was a lot easier to afford a sleeper then and the service and foods were normally much better. Recently someone put up the fare schedule here for the trip between New York and Chicago. It showed that the sleeper fares averaged "half" more than the coach fare. If they hadn't been quite reasonable I could never have afforded them. Now that same room with much less service and style cost from five to 10 times and more than a coach fare. I still don't find it reasonable. Plus if you went as a family the wife and children often paid half the fare and and the charge for the room was half the cost per person compared to the way amtrak now figures it. It used to be if you purchased a bedroom the cost was the same for one person or two. Now the fare is charged as if two are using the room even if your by your self. I used to go parlor car to chicago frequently on the GM&O, the cost was only a few dollars more than a coach seat. Even in the worst of times that Ann Rutledge train served a fine breakfast and other meals with high standards. I know some did not and I rode those as well. I will comment more on that on a different post.

 

[Larry H.]

The most noticeable thing about the streamliners of the 50's was the wonderful difference in the exteriors. The great looking streamline engines with a long row of domes in many cases colored exteriors, you could tell the company by the outside in many cases. I loved the City of St. Louis with its gold striped exterior, always carried a couple domes and lounges with fine deep blue mohair sofas and chairs, writing tables an a book case with postcards. The first class lounge had it own dome, card room underneath and the seating area with sofas and chairs nicely arranged to the rear. The sleeping section was run by Pullman not the railroad and it had its own conductor and car attendants. You never had to load your luggage or remove it your self, it was always done for you. Shoes were shined overnight by putting them in a little box sort of affair that opened to the hallway. The cars were solid and well constructed, not all the duct taped cabinets and falling off doors you see today. Another change which is a sign of the times is that many passengers dressed up, but then they did that to go to the grocery store or department store as well. People were considerate and thus the cars remained neat and quiet. No cell phones and everyone talking at once all around. The food was prepared fresh on board. The diners usually had etched glass panels and individual chairs with white linens and company china and sliver. When the City combined with the same from Chicago going to Los Angles it had a diner in the dome in that section.

I rode the Empire Builder the day they put up the pending turn over of the train to Amtrak. It was a dark green consist with four sleepers, two lounges, dinner, cafe car and five coaches with domes throughout. The most impressive thing about that train was that all the cars had a western theme with western scenes tastefully painted into the car designs. The coaches as was the custom had very large restrooms for both sexes with seating areas and a row of sinks and stalls. The down side to that trip was the fact that the company was pretending to have sold out trains and made reservations nearly impossible until one boarded and discovered an empty train. Just one of the techniques used at the end by companies who wanted a reason to be allowed to drop the service. On board during that trip was the Auditor for the railroad, his wife said they were told the same thing when thirty days out they tried to make a reservation and were told the train was sold out.

Each company that cared, and for a while many did, the trains were a way of pride in the overall company. I know some think its nuts that a railroad might want to run a passenger operation and yet many companies spend many millions of dollars for super bowl ads for a 60 second spot. It used to be a way to build good will for the public. I am not totally convinced that couldn't still be the case. Each company had its premiere trains and its locals or short distance. Those were not always nearly as well operated, but the companies that cared often still ran trains for short distances that carried a full diner and lounge on many routes. Often with a parlor car as well. The Green Diamond of the Illinois Central comes to mind there. I also took a fateful ride on the Wabash Cannon Ball to Chicago and it was a once grand day train that showed the neglect by the company. The drapes were falling off the windows, the cars were less than clean and food not very good. The worst part is they had lovely fan tail parlor car on the rear. It became habit for them to tack a freight car on the back of it in springfield which of course ruined the effect of the rounded read end.

I also rode from New York City at christmas ( can't recall the name for sure) New York Central perhaps. It was dreadful, that was in 1960. No water in the cars to drink. very poor food, frozen up windows the whole trip, no reclining seats in coach, in general the worst trip I had ever taken. All tactics to make things look worse than they were.

I think the things I miss the most is the anticipation of riding a name train and knowing its a unique experience. Something about getting off the Amtrak Version of the Empire Builder in Chicago and Boarding the Capitol Limited or the City of New Orleans an never know you boarded a different train. I know its foreign to the younger people today and many think these things are not important, but they were at one time for sure. People used to enjoy a decorative and attractive environment and it wasn't considered luxury as many today seem to feel, it was simply the way things were done. A comparison might be that movie theaters of the earlier days were never considered something for the rich, but were one after the other more elaborate all in an attempt to attract the public.

 

[rile42]

I used to take the Clevelander and the Penn Texas from North Philly station to Ohio with my family from the 50's to the early 60's. Most of the time we went coach using my dad's PRR employee's pass. In coach, we used to turn seats around so our family always sat together facing each other (not legal now I think I heard someone say). The restrooms in coach were much roomier. I seem to remember there being small couches in them.

Both trains used GG1's to Harrisburg where the were switched to E or F units I think. While there, a person would come onto the train with a cart that had sandwiches, candy, chips etc. for those in coach to purchase.

 

[Bob Dylan]

As one who is old enough to have experienced a few of the pre-Amtrak trains (mostly mail trains and milk runs but also The Sunset Ltd., the MoPac Eagle and the Broadway limited), my best memory involves the difference between the Steam engines vs. the Diesel Transition, Diesels were considered a step up by most people but little did they know that Steamers would always have the hearts of most riders!

Some newbies/younger folks dont know that you used to have to Pay Extra for the food in the diner and while it wasnt expensive per se, as other posters have pointed out the rail fares on extra fare trains were pricey for the times! Coach fare was very cheap but the comfort level was way below todays Amtrak and as Bill H pointed out showers were VERY rare!

Of course if you look at the videos and pictures from those times people dressed up to travel also so wearing a suit and tie or nice dress to the diner was pretty much what one did!

I also remember that conductors tended to be older but perhaps thats cause I was a kid, and seemed like most were more friendly than todays as a rule! Even though it's generalizing I also remember that the OBS also seemed to provide better service and seemed to always be around, they didnt vanish like some do today! Im glad we have Amtrak, overall Id say were comparing apple to oranges but still thrilled I got to ride in both eras! These are the good old days, ride a train while you can!

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

One point I forgot to stress was the differences between the 50's and the 60's. Meaning most of what was better than Amtrak was earlier. Then as things got more sour for the railroads standards went way below those of today on some lines.

Streamlining,diesel power, etc was just beginning before WW2. Then production stopped during the war.Then after the war ended in the mid 40's the railroads went all out ordering new equipment. It was too little, too late.

But most railroads tried to give good service until the mid 50's. Then as competition from improved airlines,the interstate highway system and loss of the mail contract made the passenger business look very bleak.

Thus many of the railroads became, so to speak, "freight railroads".

 

[FriskyFL]

It appears that just about everybody in those YouTube videos had a cigarette; I can imagine how smoky those lounge cars must have been. At least in that regard, Amtrak is a huge improvement.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

It appears that just about everybody in those YouTube videos had a cigarette; I can imagine how smoky those lounge cars must have been. At least in that regard, Amtrak is a huge improvement.

That and random cameras don't pop up in LAUS with an omniscient voice to advise you on travel.

 

[JayPea]

I rode a few pre-Amtrak trains as a young boy, in the mid '60's, and though I don't remember too much, there are a few memories I do have. One is that on a trip to Chicago from Spokane on the Empire Builder, how rough the ride was, both directions. It seems we were always thrown around. And virtually all the EB staff was African-American, and as I recall were helpful, cheeful, always had a smile on their faces, and were eager and happy to serve you. The tables in the dining car had real china, real silverware, linen napkins and tablecloths, and napkin rings. One thing I don't remember but my mother does, is they also had small bowls with water, used for dipping your fingers in. I didn't know any better and picked one of those bowls up and drank out of it. :blink: :blink:

And in general I remember the different lines and the colors of their trains. Spokane, for instance, had the Great Northern, with its green and orange for the Empire Builder, the Northern Pacific, with its two-tone green, and the Union Pacific, with its bright yellow cars and red lettering. I don't recall the color scheme of the S P & S (Spokane, Portland, and Seattle) railroad's cars, and the Milwaukee Road's Olympian Hiawatha was out of business long before my recollection.

As far as the coaches, sleepers, etc, I don' remember much, but do recall the dome cars on the EB as well as the observation car with its rounded end. In fact I remember spending a lot of my time in the dome car with my sister. The best of both worlds; my sister and I got to enjoy the ride without our mom hovering over us and Mom got to nap without us bothering her. :lol:

Today, of course, no napkin rings, finger bowls, or china and silverware. I have had good luck with Amtrak personnel; only a few minor problems here and there. And for the trains I've ridden, the color scheme is all the same or close to it.

I wasn't fortunate to be around during the 1940's or 1950's when passenger rail service was better than it was in the late 1960's. Amtrak has its problems, but it's better than the alternative, which is no passenger rail service at all!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

And virtually all the EB staff was African-American, and as I recall were helpful, cheeful, always had a smile on their faces, and were eager and happy to serve you.

This is not directed to you personally, but to anybody who pointed out that the African-American crews (pre Civil Rights) were more friendly than they were today.

... You guys realize the reason for this is that if they didn't have said smiles, they'd be subjected to the threats of economic slavery and the standard government-sanctioned second-class citizenship that they (back then) held... right?

I just think that this is something to keep in mind. One way to ensure good service is to threaten them with poverty, racism, and have it sanctioned by the Federal government.

 

[palmland]

Passengers are also different. In first class, you found mostly business men and as a result sleepers were mostly guys in coat and tie and a very few families. In the lounge, that same clientele was into cocktails, not much beer and very little wine. And those drinks were served to you at your seat (along with hors d'oeuvres on some trains). Exception was on resort trains like the Florida Special where it was mostly the well to do and well dressed, and their pets, on their annual jaunt to the sunny south. This was long before these folks started flying to foreign destinations for vacations while now it is mostly the middle class who appear on Amtrak heading to the likes of WDW. Changing times and changing culture - you judge if this makes any difference on Amtrak travel today.

Most roads had superlative service. And on a few roads, like the Santa Fe and Seaboard Coast Line, this lasted up to A day in 1971. Another thing that helped maintain that great service was the Pullman Co. They made sure service was consistently good in the sleepers, not matter which road you were on. Consistency of service is one area that Amtrak struggles with, although certainly better in recent years.

 

[henryj]

Having just begun regularly using trains for LD train travel 8 years ago, I always wonder what it was like traveling during rhe golden age of passenger rail. Today we have far fewer routes, many major cities are no longer served, many beautiful train stations lie closed or fallen to the wrecking ball but long distance trains still survive. The porters (now called SCA's) are still doing their job, the dining cars still serve decent meals and the sleeping accomodations are very similar to what was offered way back when. So what are the main differences?

You just named most of them. As you can see from my signature page, I road a just a few of them. The main difference for me is back then I was a young man with no money, so I had to ride the great trains in coach and could rarely afford to eat in the diner. Now I can afford a sleeper. When I shipped out of Fort Polk in the US Army for Brooklyn Army Terminal in New York, however, I got to ride first class which was a real treat(except for being in the Army). The other main differences were that most of the western trains had dome cars, and each train was distinctly different as they were privately operated by the various railroads. If Amtrak covered just a few more routes the difference would not be that much. However, particulary for someone living in Texas or any of the Westerm states except maybe Calif., there are some major gaps.

 

[JayPea]

And virtually all the EB staff was African-American, and as I recall were helpful, cheeful, always had a smile on their faces, and were eager and happy to serve you.

This is not directed to you personally, but to anybody who pointed out that the African-American crews (pre Civil Rights) were more friendly than they were today.

... You guys realize the reason for this is that if they didn't have said smiles, they'd be subjected to the threats of economic slavery and the standard government-sanctioned second-class citizenship that they (back then) held... right?

I just think that this is something to keep in mind. One way to ensure good service is to threaten them with poverty, racism, and have it sanctioned by the Federal government.

I realize this now, of course, but at the time, in my five-year-old world, I didn't think of such things nor even realized they were happening.

 

[Larry H.]

And virtually all the EB staff was African-American, and as I recall were helpful, cheeful, always had a smile on their faces, and were eager and happy to serve you.

This is not directed to you personally, but to anybody who pointed out that the African-American crews (pre Civil Rights) were more friendly than they were today.

... You guys realize the reason for this is that if they didn't have said smiles, they'd be subjected to the threats of economic slavery and the standard government-sanctioned second-class citizenship that they (back then) held... right?

I just think that this is something to keep in mind. One way to ensure good service is to threaten them with poverty, racism, and have it sanctioned by the Federal government.

I realize this now, of course, but at the time, in my five-year-old world, I didn't think of such things nor even realized they were happening.

It is a bit hard to place all this into context of the times. Sure there was segregation most of the time the trains ran. I still recall the black passengers being relegated to their own cars when going south. Times have surly changed. But so has the world as so many of you like to constantly point out. I am sure that the job was demanding and service was required. However service was something in all types of work, not just in the railroad industry so it came as pretty normal part of a job to make the passengers feel welcome and to indeed be of help. No more than a good waiter might have been, or a fine salesperson when stores actually had sales people that helped in a way they don't today. And when did the pullman and other service workers unionize? I don't really know the date, but I do know that one could run into a lot of very unpleasant lounge car porters now and then. In fact my uncle used to travel between St. Louis and Chicago often for business in the 50' and I recall him saying he was never taking the train again due to the way the fellow treated him in the lounge car. Of course there were probably some who faked enjoying there jobs, and I would bet from knowing a few that there also for whom it was a job they were very glad to have at a time when most others did not have the kind of salary or tip potential of those jobs. Yes it was a different time for sure, but others are still doing the job, some as well and many with no where near the helpful attitude that was common then.

OK, before I get blasted over this post I googled when the rail road porters unionized. It was in 1935. So I don't think one can say that the workers we met were being unduly mistreated by the pullman company by that stage. In fact I would say most of them were doing much better than their neighbors of the time. As I said earlier here service was something some people prided them selves in, but those days are mostly gone.

 

[LA Resident]

Having just begun regularly using trains for LD train travel 8 years ago, I always wonder what it was like traveling during rhe golden age of passenger rail. Today we have far fewer routes, many major cities are no longer served, many beautiful train stations lie closed or fallen to the wrecking ball but long distance trains still survive. The porters (now called SCA's) are still doing their job, the dining cars still serve decent meals and the sleeping accomodations are very similar to what was offered way back when. So what are the main differences?

From reading many books on the subject it appears that the main changes are that todays trains are rather stark and utilitarian. If you look at pictures of say the 20th Century Limited, you will see the use of beautiful hardwoods, wooden furniture, nice carpeting, venetian blinds, lovely curtains and the crews were impecibly dressed (as where the passengers). The dining cars offered wider and more gourmet food choices and it was common to see a whilte tablecloth and a vase of fresh flowers on the table. In the dining cars tables and chairs were used instead of the booths that we now see but the sleepers (except for the Pullman section cars) appear very much as they did back in the day. I determined this after touring many of the old sleeping cars at many RR museums and riding on tourist trains. Trains during the 30's, 40's and 50's also had more than one observation car, a lounge and many had two dining cars. It appeared that train travel was far more elegant back then but it had to be as fares were fixed by the government and railroads had to compete for business by offering better amemities. Today while the glamour is gone we at least have something to enjoy the experience

If there is anyone here who has researched the subject or had the opportunity to expereince travel during that period please share your experience.

Having ridden the Super Chief and City of Los Angeles as a teen, I think that the Pullman roomettes were a step above today's Amtrak economy bedroom. The Pullman roomette had a sink and toilet in the room, tho you had to put the bed back into the wall at night if you needed to use the loo (as the bed came down from the wall and rested on the toilet seat). The room was bigger, too. Today's Economy Bedroom strikes me as the old upper/lower berths set up with a door added, and nothing more. To be sure, it's still preferable to coach.

 

[LA Resident]

Having just begun regularly using trains for LD train travel 8 years ago, I always wonder what it was like traveling during rhe golden age of passenger rail. Today we have far fewer routes, many major cities are no longer served, many beautiful train stations lie closed or fallen to the wrecking ball but long distance trains still survive. The porters (now called SCA's) are still doing their job, the dining cars still serve decent meals and the sleeping accomodations are very similar to what was offered way back when. So what are the main differences?

From reading many books on the subject it appears that the main changes are that todays trains are rather stark and utilitarian. If you look at pictures of say the 20th Century Limited, you will see the use of beautiful hardwoods, wooden furniture, nice carpeting, venetian blinds, lovely curtains and the crews were impecibly dressed (as where the passengers). The dining cars offered wider and more gourmet food choices and it was common to see a whilte tablecloth and a vase of fresh flowers on the table. In the dining cars tables and chairs were used instead of the booths that we now see but the sleepers (except for the Pullman section cars) appear very much as they did back in the day. I determined this after touring many of the old sleeping cars at many RR museums and riding on tourist trains. Trains during the 30's, 40's and 50's also had more than one observation car, a lounge and many had two dining cars. It appeared that train travel was far more elegant back then but it had to be as fares were fixed by the government and railroads had to compete for business by offering better amemities. Today while the glamour is gone we at least have something to enjoy the experience

If there is anyone here who has researched the subject or had the opportunity to expereince travel during that period please share your experience.

Having ridden the Super Chief and City of Los Angeles as a teen, I think that the Pullman roomettes were a step above today's Amtrak economy bedroom. The Pullman roomette had a sink and toilet in the room, tho you had to put the bed back into the wall at night if you needed to use the loo (as the bed came down from the wall and rested on the toilet seat). The room was bigger, too. Today's Economy Bedroom strikes me as the old upper/lower berths set up with a door added, and nothing more. To be sure, it's still preferable to coach.

I should add that the meals were a bit fancier and tastier on the old trains. But I might believe that because an uncle was a Union Pacific Salad Chef.

 

[Guest]

Having just begun regularly using trains for LD train travel 8 years ago, I always wonder what it was like traveling during rhe golden age of passenger rail. Today we have far fewer routes, many major cities are no longer served, many beautiful train stations lie closed or fallen to the wrecking ball but long distance trains still survive. The porters (now called SCA's) are still doing their job, the dining cars still serve decent meals and the sleeping accomodations are very similar to what was offered way back when. So what are the main differences?

From reading many books on the subject it appears that the main changes are that todays trains are rather stark and utilitarian. If you look at pictures of say the 20th Century Limited, you will see the use of beautiful hardwoods, wooden furniture, nice carpeting, venetian blinds, lovely curtains and the crews were impecibly dressed (as where the passengers). The dining cars offered wider and more gourmet food choices and it was common to see a whilte tablecloth and a vase of fresh flowers on the table. In the dining cars tables and chairs were used instead of the booths that we now see but the sleepers (except for the Pullman section cars) appear very much as they did back in the day. I determined this after touring many of the old sleeping cars at many RR museums and riding on tourist trains. Trains during the 30's, 40's and 50's also had more than one observation car, a lounge and many had two dining cars. It appeared that train travel was far more elegant back then but it had to be as fares were fixed by the government and railroads had to compete for business by offering better amemities. Today while the glamour is gone we at least have something to enjoy the experience

If there is anyone here who has researched the subject or had the opportunity to expereince travel during that period please share your experience.

If you really want a taste of the best of what railways had to offer during the streamlined and dome car era, take a trip on Via Rail's, Canadian. It's an expensive trip but it's about as close as you can get to the glory days of trains such as the orignal California Zephyr. Service, food, scenery and equipment are superb.

The things I miss most are that you used to be able to go almost anywhere on a sleeping car any day of the week, often with several daily choices and the food in the diner was usually far better than what is offered today.

Gord

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I think my one favorite car in pre Amtrak times was the dome diner on Union Pacific's City of Los Angeles and City of Portland. At that time dining "upstairs" hardly existed. There was the high level equipment on the El Capitan but that did not seem as luxurious to me as the UP cars,dome diner and dome lounge.

One of the earlier posters mentioned drinking the water out of the finger bowl.I almost did the same thing but my mother caught me in time. But she had her own history, some years before that she misunderstood the fancy table wear and poured syrup into her coffee.

Pullmans had copies of the Hotel Red Book and either copies of timetables and/or maybe even the Official Railway Guide in the hallways. These could be found in the lounge car also. Plus stationery desk for writing letters, if anybody can remember what "writing a letter" meant. Some of my favorite souvenirs is stationery and envelope with the train name or at least the railroad name on it.

I think the food was definately better on the whole in the past and certainly more variety.But one of the past downfalls,which I have mentioned before, is that before Amtrak not too many lounge cars offered a less expensive food option. Some lounge cars were mostly for beverages, however beautifully decorated.

IF anyone is intrigued by this old stuff I suggest you go to ebay or something and look for old timetables or the old Official Railway Guide. Preferably from the 50's as much started declining after that and not much fun to see.

 

[LA Resident]

I think my one favorite car in pre Amtrak times was the dome diner on Union Pacific's City of Los Angeles and City of Portland. At that time dining "upstairs" hardly existed. There was the high level equipment on the El Capitan but that did not seem as luxurious to me as the UP cars,dome diner and dome lounge.

One of the earlier posters mentioned drinking the water out of the finger bowl.I almost did the same thing but my mother caught me in time. But she had her own history, some years before that she misunderstood the fancy table wear and poured syrup into her coffee.

Pullmans had copies of the Hotel Red Book and either copies of timetables and/or maybe even the Official Railway Guide in the hallways. These could be found in the lounge car also. Plus stationery desk for writing letters, if anybody can remember what "writing a letter" meant. Some of my favorite souvenirs is stationery and envelope with the train name or at least the railroad name on it.

I think the food was definately better on the whole in the past and certainly more variety.But one of the past downfalls,which I have mentioned before, is that before Amtrak not too many lounge cars offered a less expensive food option. Some lounge cars were mostly for beverages, however beautifully decorated.

IF anyone is intrigued by this old stuff I suggest you go to ebay or something and look for old timetables or the old Official Railway Guide. Preferably from the 50's as much started declining after that and not much fun to see.

As a kid growing up in San Diego, our family used to go over to Coronado and dine at the Hotel del Coronado every Sunday night. What a hotel! (Still is.) The lower level shopping arcade, all paneled in redwood, had a huge display at one end filled with the train schedules of every railroad in the country. I would always take one of each; it's how I learned geography, I suspect. The Penn Central and Union Pacific schedules in the late 1950s were magnificent. Gosh how I wish I had saved some of those schedules!

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

Pullmans had copies of the Hotel Red Book and either copies of timetables and/or maybe even the Official Railway Guide in the hallways. These could be found in the lounge car also. Plus stationery desk for writing letters, if anybody can remember what "writing a letter" meant. Some of my favorite souvenirs is stationery and envelope with the train name or at least the railroad name on it.

Yep, I have two official guides (April 66 and 67), one is marked for the lounge of the California Zephyr and the other for the Denver Zephyr.