Labor Negotiations soon!!!!!!!!

[sutton]

Just wanted to comment on the general topic: as one who loves Amtrak, I don't see that the majority of the workers deserve a raise! After several years of riding, I can say that at least HALF do a poor job of customer service. Half my sleeping car attendants vanished for the majority of the trip; I've had wonderful servers in the dining car, for the most part, though a few surly ones exist there--esp. on the California Zephyr (of the trains I've been on). Amtrak needs the same level of service (and funding, I know) that VIArail has. Only then will passengers take it.

I wasn't aware Herzog was already in Amtrak facilities. Thanks for the tip -- I'll pass it along.

OK - what's Herzog???

 

[battalion51]

Herzog is a private company that operates a number of Commuter railroads and also does railroad construction. Herzog operates commuter outfits like Coaster, Tri-Rail, TRE, ACE, and others. The only crossover I'm aware of between Herzog and Amtrak is that Herzog has the maintenance contract for NCDOT's equipment that is Raleigh based. Herzog does operate Tri-Rail's shops in Miami, but they do not touch Amtrak equipment.

 

[Boxcar]

Just wanted to comment on the general topic: as one who loves Amtrak, I don't see that the majority of the workers deserve a raise! After several years of riding, I can say that at least HALF do a poor job of customer service. Half my sleeping car attendants vanished for the majority of the trip; I've had wonderful servers in the dining car, for the most part, though a few surly ones exist there--esp. on the California Zephyr (of the trains I've been on). Amtrak needs the same level of service (and funding, I know) that VIArail has. Only then will passengers take it.

I wasn't aware Herzog was already in Amtrak facilities. Thanks for the tip -- I'll pass it along.

OK - what's Herzog???

Sutton, as a 35 year member of a afore mentioned Union,CWA, I can say that what you described is fairly common in most occupations. You have both workers and slackers that unfortunately receive the same benefits and fair wages can't be withheld because of that. I do know that when we received a COLA increase, it was considered a pay raise even if we just broke even with inflation which is the purpose of COLA. Never once did that amount equal a 1 cent an hour increase but was usually several dollars.

There are other cards the union could play, assuming they have a "strike authorization" vote from their membership. I'll cite one example, used by the CWA against Verizon.

One has to be careful on the tactics used when a contract has expired. As a 35 year former telecommunications worker and CWA member, I'm surprised that Verizon didn't implement a "Lock out"

being they had everything in place for a strike.

I know back in 1983 during a strike against ATT&T and Southwestern Bell, a hurricane struck the Houston area. CWA immediately notified ATT&T/SWBT that we would call off the strike and return to work, we were told "NO". After a week and a half of seeing the replacement workers and management unable to handle

the restorations, we we called back too work. Even in the mist of all the damage, we were denied any overtime for a couple of weeks as "Punishment" for striking.

I've also witnessed the auto workers in the '70/ '80's strike for higher wages and were out for so long that it took a long time to recover the lost wages.

 

[Sam Damon]

One has to be careful on the tactics used when a contract has expired. As a 35 year former telecommunications worker and CWA member, I'm surprised that Verizon didn't implement a "Lock out" being they had everything in place for a strike.

You're quite right to assert a union has to be careful with tactics.

Much of what happens during any sort of management-labor negotiations has as much to do with personalities involved as with anything else, including economics. I do have to hand it to the many skilled tradesmen Amtrak employs for hanging in there like they are, even when things aren't looking well.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

we were denied any overtime for a couple of weeks as "Punishment" for striking.

As I understand it, that would be a Federal Labor Law violation. I think you MUST pay overtime, under penalty of fines and even prosecution. +

 

[PRR 60]

we were denied any overtime for a couple of weeks as "Punishment" for striking.

As I understand it, that would be a Federal Labor Law violation. I think you MUST pay overtime, under penalty of fines and even prosecution. +

I do not think it was non-payment for overtime worked, but a denial of overtime opportunity.

 

[haolerider]

to put some of this in perspective can someone give us some of the pay scales? for example what does a mechanical department worker make with 15-20 years experience?

 

[Boxcar]

we were denied any overtime for a couple of weeks as "Punishment" for striking.

As I understand it, that would be a Federal Labor Law violation. I think you MUST pay overtime, under penalty of fines and even prosecution. +

I do not think it was non-payment for overtime worked, but a denial of overtime opportunity.

That's correct PRR60....I was even told by a third level superviser, " don't even think you people are going to come back too work and make up for wages lost during the strike." That lasted two weeks and then we started working 15hr days, seven days a week. We hit time and a half on Tuesday evening and double time on Wednesday thru Saturday.

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

Thought I needed to add or correct some misconceptions.

1 - Amtrak does not strike. A strike, if one occurs, is by the employees, and what drives them to strike more than anything else is poor treatment by management.

2 - comparing wages of a senior worker in any department is worthless. What must be compared is the "mean adverage" of all grades in the clasification, then do a "mean adverage" of all the departments and then you have a true picture of the wages within the company.

3 - Any strike over 4 days both side loose as any possible increase is never enought to replace lost wages, If one is over 4 days there usualy very serious problems between management and labor to force that type of stand.

5 - In trying to figure out the possibilities through out the best and worst situations something else will occour.

 

[guest]

Generally COLA increases for government workers has been in the 3-4% range, at least over the past several years. I believe this is the same level of increase seen in Soc. Sec. benefits, but I am not sure about that. In my mind, a COLA increase is a pay raise.

I personally would be more than happy with that kind of a wage increase every year. We are lucky if we end up with a raise of 1-2% per year. We worked for a couple of years without a raise at all, not even a cost of living increase! So, while I feel for the workers, they are not alone in their 'suffering'! There are others in the same situation, and, unfortunately, we don't make that much to begin with.

Please don't get me wrong here; I am an Amtrak rider, and I hope that they get everything resolved. But, like I said, they're not alone....

 

[Boxcar]

1 - Amtrak does not strike. A strike, if one occurs, is by the employees, and what drives them to strike more than anything else is poor treatment by management.

Just have to kid you a little GG-1, but I believe all strikes are by the employees and not the companies. Strikes by employees without the support of the unions or members are called "Wildcat Strikes" and for the most part are always considered illegal.

As for poor treatment being the cause of most strikes I don't know that to be factual but all that I was involved in was over wages, benefits and job security. Poor treatment by management was usually handled by grievance procedures even if it has to go all the way up to the CEO to be resolved.

 

[Miami Joe]

Everyone gets paid the same rate, regardless of "time of service".

Electricians, Carmen and Sheet Metal Workers get the same hourly rate.

Electricians with a "Tech" rating get 50 cents an hr more! A/C rate is 20 cents if doing HVAC. Carmen get $5 if they do welding that day. Loco Techs make $2 an hr more, but fall under "hour of service".

MJ B)

 

[rmgreenesq]

Everyone gets paid the same rate, regardless of "time of service".

Huh? Now that's just stupid personnell policy. Those who have worked with Amtrak longer should make more money. Its good for the employee becasue it gives them an incentive to stay with the employer and not leave at the drop of a hat or the promise of $0.50 an hour more.

Its even better for Amtrak because employees with work expereince with Amtrak are more productive. Even though they are a perfectly competent welder, electrictian, or mechanic, senior employees know how to do things "the Amtrak way". It also cuts down on costs in the HR department trying to find and hire workers. Generally, there is less attrition especially among the more senior positions. Those jobs are usually vacated by retirement or death.

Rick

 

[PennCentralFan]

Amtrak employees need our support. Instead of striking they could slow things down by going by the book. We need to be in solidarity with Amtrak workers and even ride Amtrak if they do a slow down to show our support. Remember it's the employees not the employers who make Amtrak work. Without labor nothing has value.

 

[haolerider]

Not being involved with a union, I have always questioned the value of the union management in situations like this. If there is a strong union management, they would be more vigilant in forcing negotiations with company management, rather than letting this situation fester for so many years. If I were a union employee, I would strongly question why I was paying union dues if nothing is happening, especially if it has been going on for many years as the Amtrak employess seem to be saying.

Also, to the point of everyone getting paid the same rate regardless of time of service, it seems to me that is what the union agreed to when they signed the contract, so it is really not a bad personnel policy, rather a bad piece of negotiation on the part of the union.

 

[Sam Damon]

Not being involved with a union, I have always questioned the value of the union management in situations like this. If there is a strong union management, they would be more vigilant in forcing negotiations with company management, rather than letting this situation fester for so many years. If I were a union employee, I would strongly question why I was paying union dues if nothing is happening, especially if it has been going on for many years as the Amtrak employess seem to be saying.

Haolerider,

If only things were that easy.

Let me put it to you this way, as a longtime union professional staff member put it to me. "When you have a union, you get a couple cards to play," he said. "When you don't have a union, you don't get any cards." I should add also, that I have been quite frankly, screwed by a union during a contract negotiation. That same union later fought for me when I could have been laid off, and preserved what job I have left. So I am extremely ambivalent about unions, and union membership.

The truth is that there exist a number of reasons for both sides to delay negotiations. People could be happy with the status quo. The company might figure it will save money if it doesn't cut a new deal. The union might not have a level of unity that it's happy with during negotiations. And so on.

 

[GG-1]

Everyone gets paid the same rate, regardless of "time of service".

This one does not suprise me, seems to be the only way to keep the bottom up, what gets forgotten, is a valued employee can be paid above the minimum.

Electricians, Carmen and Sheet Metal Workers get the same hourly rate.

Not knowing exactly what the skills are this seems ok to me.

Electricians with a "Tech" rating get 50 cents an hr more! A/C rate is 20 cents if doing HVAC. Carmen get $5 if they do welding that day. Loco Techs make $2 an hr more, but fall under "hour of service".
MJ B)

This last part welding (Certified ?) seems to be ridiculous, much to low, certified welders make around 45 dollars per hour + benefits.

I don't seem to remember what the dollar values are for these maint. possitions were and I seem to recal the "on road rates" near 25 dollars per hour so I hope the base for maint. is at least 30-35 dollars

 

[oldtimer]

This last part welding (Certified ?) seems to be ridiculous, much to low, certified welders make around 45 dollars per hour + benefits.
I don't seem to remember what the dollar values are for these maint. possitions were and I seem to recal the "on road rates" near 25 dollars per hour so I hope the base for maint. is at least 30-35 dollars

The current rate is less than $20.00/hr and remember that is also taxed for Railroad Retirement in addition to the equalivant for Social Security and Medicare Taxes. The unions are very much united in their fight against a pesidential appointed board of directors. This Board wants to eliminate all job classifications so any one can do anything regardless of their experience and abilities, restrict the seniority of employees to pick their jobs and virtually eliminate all work rules, while their final pay offer is less than even the hourly rate for a ticket agent. Long time employees can remember the past when they went from 1981 to 1992 with a total of 6.6% raises and no cost of living increases. During the same time period the rate of inflation was between 46% and 66% depending on whose figures you use. The current management has through attrition allowed the number of craft emploees to fall to 60% of the forces of ten years ago, and insists on pushing more work on an aging work force. The reason the work force is aging is that as soon as young employees learn the trade they leave for freight and commuter railroads where they can make 6 to 20 thousand more a year without working overtime! The workers need the attention of the media and the support of the public. If they do strike then president bush will step in and stop it by appointing a presidential emergency board that will make reccomendations that if they are not accepted will be imposed by congress. It should be obvious to everyone in a labor vs managemnet issue where bush and congress's loyalties are.

Please support Amtrak workers.

 

[GG-1]

Please support Amtrak workers.

Aloha

Nothing more to Add except Good Luck, or as in the theater "break a leg"

 

[oldtimer]

Just to correct some of the misinformation posted earlier, the currently bargaining employees do contribute to their health care via a wage offset of approx. $1.50/ hour. Most individuals never read the agreements when they are put out for ratification. They only look at the amount per hour they will be making. The health insurance is terrible even worse then the national freight carriers plan. The freight railroads see that a little over $100 per month is taken from their checks, now Amtrak wants to take the $100/ month + the approx. $3,000 per year that we do not see.

Again PLEASE SUPPORT AMTRAK WORKERS

Thanks

 

[frj1983]

I may be way off here,

But it seems to me that a better tactic than striking...or at least something to try before striking, would be for the Union Management to meet with current Senators and Congressman(who are supportive of Amtrak) and share the information with them. Who knows, a suitably irate Representative/s might be able to get the ball rolling on negotiations. This would also make the Union look like it is trying to do something about the situation while management is not.

 

[Sam Damon]

You've kinda hit the target squarely with that last post.

Amtrak workers are de facto government employees, even if from a legal perspective, they are not. As much as I am understanding and appreciative of the Amtrak workers' situation, in today's budget climate, getting any sort of new contract becomes problematic.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

And while I can certainly see a need for good faith negotiations, the current medical situation of

the health insurance is terrible even worse then the national freight carriers plan. The freight railroads see that a little over $100 per month is taken from their checks, now Amtrak wants to take the $100/ month + the approx. $3,000 per year...

doesn't really resonate very well with me, since my wife and I are currently having to scrape up $965 per month to pay for our medical insurance. Want to trade?

 

[haolerider]

I have to agree with Amtrak WPK. Most people in the real world are paying hundreds of dollars per month to cover the cost of medical and dental insurance and the companies are paying almost the same. If you are being asked to pay only $3,000 per year, you should be thankful and not complain about it.

The fact that companies pay any amount is something that does not go back very far in time. Not too many years ago, things of this nature were the individual's responsibility - just as life insurance, car insurance, flood insurance are now.

 

[MrFSS]

I understand from speaking with some who have worked at major auto manufacturing companies that this is a reason the companies are in deep financial trouble. The company has to pay large amounts for employees and retirees for their medical and it has gotten so expensive no one can afford it any longer.