Keystone #660 late this past Sunday (11/10/13)

[Oreius]

On November 10, I rode Keystone #660. It was late getting into E-Town, having arrived at around 7:48. From there all the way to just east of Lancaster we just putsy-putsyed. We went maybe 30-45 mph as measured by my cellphone speedometer. The conductor explained that "someone had flipped the switch and there had been a power interruption near Middletown. Any reasons why we would be going so slow for such a distance? We ended up being at NYP 31 minutes late.

 

[jis]

Any reason not to believe what the Conductor said?

 

[the_traveler]

There's a very good chance the conductor would know the reason. Much more than any of us, just riders. And we weren't on that train, but (s)he was.

 

[fairviewroad]

No reason to think the conductor wasn't telling the truth, but it's not a very satisfactory explanation. Who "flipped the switch?" What switch? If there

was a power interruption, why was the train moving at all? Once the switch was presumably flipped back into the proper position, why was the train

still going slow (looks like it kept losing time until roughly Coatesville).

That being said, this wasn't a major delay by Amtrak standards, though 30+ minute delays are definitely not the norm on the Keystones.

 

[jis]

Would it particularly help if someone was told that the primary 25Hz feed for the Harrisburg end of the line feeds in at Parkesburg and if the HV feed is down then the entire lot has to be fed out of the other end through catenary which causes higher line losses and hence lower line voltage and hence restriction on how much power can be drawn from the line hence lower operating speed? Honestly I just made it up. But sounds pretty darned impressive doesn't it? And at least quite a bit of it is also quite plausible and fits the facts. Now watch PRR jump up and stomp all over me. Actually I have no idea what the flipping thee switch at the Harrisburg end did, but if said switch knocked out the HV feed into the Roy and Park aubstations, then well..... what happened would happen.

 

[Barciur]

I was on the same train. Was weird, but I was only going to Coatesville so I didn't ask the conductor, just didn't care much. I was actually gonna make a thread about this but I totally forgot.

They initially announced that it would be 10 minute late departure from Lancaster (7:55 scheduled), then they announced that it would be in 5 minutes, but it ended up arriving at LNC at 8:20 - which suggests to me that the staff was not informed that the train would be moving slowly and would be constantly losing time as it goes on. We arrived in Coatesville at 8:45 I believe. I was really surprised that we dragged on the 30-40 MPH (I wasn't sure exactly how fast it was but that was my impression; glad it is confirmed ). It did speed up after Gap and into Parkesburg, however, and it was going at standard speed between PAR and Coatesville.

 

[the_traveler]

Who "flipped the switch?" What switch? If there was a power interruption, why was the train moving at all? Once the switch was presumably flipped back into the proper position, why was the train still going slow (looks like it kept losing time until roughly Coatesville).

Perhaps it was a switch in the locomotive that was "switching off" - by the computer!
That happen to me on a train I was on. Between OSB and NLC, the locomotive "switched off" numerous times, and they had to reset the computer each time.it took. Over 1 1/2 to go that 1 stop (normally about or less than 30 minutes), so they finally took the entire train out of service and. Put all passengers on other trains.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Could have been a restriction as a result of the offending "switch" or whatever.

 

[Acela150]

Me personally, I'd like to be on a moving train then a standing still train. But that's me..

 

[billthebarn]

Must be a "slow news day". All this over a 30 minute late train?

Jis, you may want to think about scheduling a vacation. lol!

 

[afigg]

No reason to think the conductor wasn't telling the truth, but it's not a very satisfactory explanation. Who "flipped the switch?" What switch? If there was a power interruption, why was the train moving at all? Once the switch was presumably flipped back into the proper position, why was the train still going slow (looks like it kept losing time until roughly Coatesville).

I find this thread a rather odd discussion. They could had have a partial power outage or dropout due to transformers going offline (because someone threw the wrong switch?), voltage drops from the feeder lines, whatever. Analog power supply and current is not a binary on versus off state. If the catenary power had the equivalent of a brownout for one or more sections, then the Keystone could have been limited to running at 1/3 or 1/2 speeds. It takes a lot more power to accelerate and run at 100 mph than it does at 30 mph.

 

[Barciur]

Must be a "slow news day". All this over a 30 minute late train?

Jis, you may want to think about scheduling a vacation. lol!

Well, it's a commuter train for all intents and purposes, so it's more understandable.

 

[engr08]

I don't mean to sound wrong but this thread is kinda pointless. A keystone train was 31 minutes late and I.guess you want answers. Sometimes the crew may give information that they were given to the passengers so they are not left in the dark. The train did arrive into ny safely am I correct?

 

[jis]

Must be a "slow news day". All this over a 30 minute late train?

Jis, you may want to think about scheduling a vacation. lol!

I am perpetually on vacation. I need to schedule some work I guess.
No actually at present I am under a great deal of pressure to meet certain deadlines by Thanksgiving in a project for which I am the Chief Architect - i.e. the buck stops here. So these quick excursions into the bizarre land of AU provide a welcome diversion. And then over Thanksgiving I go off to ride the Aurora Express in Alaska. So yes, indeed, vacation of sorts.

And engr08, you are exactly right. It is completely pointless, that is what makes it entertaining in a bizarre way, since there is absolutely no downside to it.

 

[the_traveler]

Passengers on the EB or CZ must be dreaming for a 31 minute late arrival!

Yes, this thread is very pointless. Just a few weeks ago, my train arrived into KIN over 30 minutes late after leaving NYP on time. Maybe I should have asked why here!

 

[fairviewroad]

And engr08, you are exactly right. It is completely pointless, that is what makes it entertaining in a bizarre way, since there is absolutely no downside to it.

Correct! If having a point was a prerequisite for posting on an internet discussion board, I think there would be no internet discussion boards.

 

[the_traveler]

Well, it is Amtrak after all and the original symbol was the ...... pointless ........ arrow! :giggle:

 

[jis]

...and now it is three sheets to the wind.... which is probably pretty pointless too :giggle:

 

[engr08]

Let me know when I'm suppose to laugh

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

To be fair guys seasoned vets like ourselves probably appreciate the relatively minor 30 minute delay, and true most of us including myself would probably welcome the extra train time; but we must realize that to anybody 30 minutes can mean a connection, a meeting, or who knows what. Amtrak considers itself late after, what, five minutes? Fifteen? Anything beyond that warrants some explanation, and a possible call to customer service.

 

[oldtimer]

...and now it is three sheets to the wind.... which is probably pretty pointless too :giggle:

Actually if you look at the lines you will see that it is the tracks to nowhere! :help:

 

[the_traveler]

Amtrak considers itself late after, what, five minutes? Fifteen? Anything beyond that warrants some explanation, and a possible call to customer service.

I'm not certain about a NEC regional/corridor train, but it may be 15 minutes. An LD train is 30 minutes. And both of these are measured at the origination and destination only! (If the SWC is 1 hour late at KCY or FLG, but arrives LAX 10 minutes late, #3 is considered "on time" for it's run.)

 

[fairviewroad]

Let me know when I'm suppose to laugh

If the topics and discourse don't appeal to you, I believe there are some other websites on the internet. Never checked, personally.

To be fair guys seasoned vets like ourselves probably appreciate the relatively minor 30 minute delay, and true most of us including myself would probably welcome the extra train time; but we must realize that to anybody 30 minutes can mean a connection, a meeting, or who knows what. Amtrak considers itself late after, what, five minutes? Fifteen? Anything beyond that warrants some explanation, and a possible call to customer service.

Well, as a data point, Amtrak.com offers connections from #660 to southbound NER 153 in PHL. This is normally a 28 minute guaranteed connection. The train we're talking about in this thread arrived into PHL 32 minutes late. But NER 153 left on time. So anyone with that connection would have missed it.

Likewise, Amtrak.com offers a guaranteed connection from 660 to Empire Service train 233 in NYP. Anyone on Sunday's 660 would have missed that connection since 233 left on time on Sunday, 7 minutes before 660 arrived into NYP.

So that's what a 30-ish minute delay on a Keystone can mean: Missed connections. For people not making connections, it probably wasn't a big deal.

 

[jis]

...and now it is three sheets to the wind.... which is probably pretty pointless too :giggle:

Actually if you look at the lines you will see that it is the tracks to nowhere! :help:

Of course that is what it is intended to show, but among a group of AU folks it is jokingly referred to as "three sheets to the wind". If I am not mistaken it might have been our old friend the Green Maned Lion who came up with that name.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

So that's what a 30-ish minute delay on a Keystone can mean: Missed connections. For people not making connections, it probably wasn't a big deal.

Also worth noting that just because only one or two people from that train posted on this forum doesn't mean there aren't a hundred or more who were also affected by the delay.

If one wanted to divide that train's compliment by half you'd have the number of man hours lost from a late train. I'm sure there's some formula some technocrat uses to determine the overall loss of productivity due to a half-hour late train.