How did Amtrak shake out an extra sleeper for the Cardinal?

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In my reckoning October 2017 may be possible given the pace of work on BBRR. Until the lengthened sidings become available on BBRR, daily service is highly unlikely. However, meanwhile, retaining the additional Sleeper and substituting a Bag-Dorm for the Baggage car could do wonders.
 
I'm wondering what the sleeper load factors are with the additional sleeper (and/or if the additional sleeper made every run/when it was started).
 
What this sudden jump with sleeper ridership happening with the sudden jump in available sleeper space really means is that their had been an unfulfilled demand on this route.
There is very strong evidence that there is also unfulfilled sleeper demand on the LSL route, the route of the Pennsy/CL from NY to Chicago (but not so much DC to Pittsburgh), DC to Atlanta, Denver to Chicago, etc... hopefully the Viewliner IIs will help some, but I suspect there aren't actually enough of them. About 25 *more* would likely be about right.
Of course there's also unfulfilled demand from NY to Detroit...

One would think with modern computer systems the demand could easily be calculated and projections done
These are predictions about human behavior -- i.e., hard to get the data on. They make very fancy models to try to predict ridership urban rail systems, and they're routinely off by upwards of 20%.
You can do better if you actually distribute a survey to large numbers of people, but that's very expensive.

Concerning the CONO: The loading proportions are a surprise to me. In the past passenger loadings south of Memphis were considerably less than those north of it.
Don't forget the Illini/Saluki are sucking up most of the loadings from Carbondale to Chicago.
 
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Thinking about the Crescent, I wonder if a couple of coaches could be turned at Birmingham?

Seems like there were still a couple of extra tracks remaining adjacent to the platform the Crescent uses there. If doable, the Crescent could run 5 (or 6) coaches NYP-Birmingham and 3 (or 4) coaches beyond.
 
Thinking about the Crescent, I wonder if a couple of coaches could be turned at Birmingham?

Seems like there were still a couple of extra tracks remaining adjacent to the platform the Crescent uses there. If doable, the Crescent could run 5 (or 6) coaches NYP-Birmingham and 3 (or 4) coaches beyond.
One of the issues with setting off/picking up equipment enroute is the need for mechanical personnel (car inspectors) at that location. I can't say for certain, but there may be labor agreement issues requiring mechanical personnel to handle the air, signal, and HEP connections plus performing the necessary brake test on the cars being picked up and then the brake line continuity test on the train after the cars are added.

Back to your original point, I believe that the station at BHM still may have a track or two available to hold equipment. The Crescent has dropped/turned coaches & sleepers at ATL in the past, but the yard (Armour Yard) north of Peachtree Station where the equipment used to be staged has been downgraded by NS and appears to be used only for storing maintenance of way equipment. It would likely need track work to be used to actively stage revenue passenger equipment again. Also, during that period, Amtrak had to cover the cost of a dedicated NS yard crew that was assigned to remove the cars from the train, turn them at Howell Tower, and shuttle them up to Armour Yard. The process was repeated in the evening when the NS yard crew would pull the cars from Armour Yard to Howell Tower, wait for 20 to pass, then shove the equipment north toward the station.
 
Thinking about the Crescent, I wonder if a couple of coaches could be turned at Birmingham?

Seems like there were still a couple of extra tracks remaining adjacent to the platform the Crescent uses there. If doable, the Crescent could run 5 (or 6) coaches NYP-Birmingham and 3 (or 4) coaches beyond.
Besides local crew issues or storage tracks, on the current Crescent schedule, the turnaround time window at Birmingham is too short. The southbound Crescent arrives at BHM at 11:50 AM, the northbound arrives at 2:15 PM. That is less than a 2 and a half hour buffer. What happens if #19 is running 4 hours late because of a grade crossing incident or got stuck behind a broken down freight train? Do they delay #20 to wait on the equipment or tell passengers north of BHM, sorry some of you are going to be out of luck for seats or a sleeper room?

The schedule gap in Atlanta between #19 departing and #20 arriving is 11 hours which provides a substantial buffer if #19 gets delayed.
 
Living near Cincinnati, the Cardinal ridership in whatever class would be improved if the schedule provided a more reasonable embark and disembark time in the Queen City.

Even allowing long term parking at Union Station in Cincinnati would encourage me to take the Cardinal. But, who wants to ask a friend or relative to take them to the city or to pick them up during the middle of the night?
If they could make the Hoosier State its own train on the days that the Cardinal runs (instead of just throwing Horizon cars onto the rear of the train), this could be possible. The main problem though is that the Cardinal already leaves at an early time out of NYP (0600), and has a late arrival time (2200). In order for the Cardinal to arrive at Cincy at a more reasonable time, they'd either have to find ways to reduce travel time (unlikely) or truncate the train at DC (like it was during the Superliner era). A truncation at DC would allow for a lot more scheduling flexibility, but would be likely to hurt overall ridership.

If they were able to change the arrival time of 51 to 12AM and the arrival time of 50 to 5AM, that would be enough for me. Again though, there doesn't seem to be a way to do that without hosing the departure/arrival times at NYP.
 
Living near Cincinnati, the Cardinal ridership in whatever class would be improved if the schedule provided a more reasonable embark and disembark time in the Queen City.

Even allowing long term parking at Union Station in Cincinnati would encourage me to take the Cardinal. But, who wants to ask a friend or relative to take them to the city or to pick them up during the middle of the night?
If they could make the Hoosier State its own train on the days that the Cardinal runs (instead of just throwing Horizon cars onto the rear of the train), this could be possible. The main problem though is that the Cardinal already leaves at an early time out of NYP (0600), and has a late arrival time (2200). In order for the Cardinal to arrive at Cincy at a more reasonable time, they'd either have to find ways to reduce travel time (unlikely) or truncate the train at DC (like it was during the Superliner era). A truncation at DC would allow for a lot more scheduling flexibility, but would be likely to hurt overall ridership.

If they were able to change the arrival time of 51 to 12AM and the arrival time of 50 to 5AM, that would be enough for me. Again though, there doesn't seem to be a way to do that without hosing the departure/arrival times at NYP.
Ridership to/from NYP isn't negligible, but it isn't a massive share of ridership either...and at least some of that ridership would probably hold on regardless of the train's arrival/departure times.
 
I am optimistic in that I believe that demand itself will drive passenger rail expansion in the future. Numerous big cities and some states are without passenger rail; Nashville, Chattanooga, Louisville, Tallahassee, Columbus, Ft Wayne, Boise, Ashville, Phoenix , Tulsa, Las Vegas, etc. Many of these cities are major population centers where over 1 million people reside. There is an untapped market in some of all of these cities.
 
Yeah; Nashville has been struggling to try to get a second line (Music City Star was the least promising of the lines considered, but the easiest one to get started).

Memphis has its streetcar (which connects to Amtrak). It's been expanded several times and shows strong ridership, though it's suffering an unfortunate suspension currently.

Chattanooga's trying to get local urban passenger rail too, and seems to have come up with a cost-effective and useful plan.

We might see the mood shift firmly towards passenger rail in Tennessee sometime in the next decade.

Oddly, Kentucky seems to be completely disinterested.
 
In my reckoning October 2017 may be possible given the pace of work on BBRR.
I haven't heard any news about the BBRR projects in a long time. How much of them is funded? Has any work actually been constructed?

Until the lengthened sidings become available on BBRR, daily service is highly unlikely.
Well, it's worth it for Amtrak to try to cross the ts and dot the is to deal with any remaining obstructions to daily service in anticipation of the BBRR work being done...
If there's some careful coordination, Amtrak could implement a number of major improvements to eastern overnight service in the 2016-2018 range. There are a lot of track & station projects being finished around then. If Amtrak can finish negotiations regarding schedules while Amtrak is getting new Viewliners -- and fund any small targeted improvements which are necessary to complete those negotiations -- we could have a daily Cardinal, CL-Pennsy through cars, and an earlier eastbound LSL (as noted in the PIPs); all with point-of-sale tracking in the cafe car and dining car, and WiFi. Florida service should get healthier when SunRail finished construction and the new Miami station opens, which again is supposed to be in the same period.

Of course, I don't trust that Amtrak will do any of this coordination. Not sure how to try to convince them to!
 
With the current woes of the CL and the LSL, the Cardinal definitely has the potential to see even higher demand. The possibility of adding another coach needs to be examined, but the shortage of Amfleet IIs does present a bit of a problem.

I'm looking forward to the day when the Cardinal is a full LD train. I think that the route would be one of Amtrak's more successful LD routes, and I'm glad that it is finally getting the TLC that it deserves.
 
I haven't heard any news about the BBRR projects in a long time. How much of them is funded? Has any work actually been constructed?
The Virginia DRPT finance page has all sorts of nuggets of information. The last section of the FY2015 SYIP (Six Year Improvement Plan) has the line item budgets for the passenger and freight rail projects. The BBRR has gotten a nice pile of funds over the years at about roughly $4-5 million a year via the Virginia Shortline Railway Preservation and Development Program. VDRPT provides 70% of the funding for each project, the railroad or others have to provide the remaining 30%. If Indiana had a rail improvement program funded at the same level as the small VA Shortline preservation program, the CHI-IND corridor could see a series of steady improvements.

The $7 million North Mountain Siding Project received $2.45 million of VA funds in FY2014, it is to received another $2.45M in state FY2016 which starts on July 1, 2015. So BBRR could have the funds to start by next fall on the new long siding for the BBRR North Mountain division which the Cardinal runs on if they are ready to.

Other funded improvements for the NS portion of the Cardinal route (from Orange to Alexandria) is the $31M Nokesville to Calverton Double Track project and $9M for Lynchburg to Alexandria speed improvements split between FY15 and FY16. With the goal of Roanoke service in 2017, my bet is that both of these project will be completed by 2017.

The other source of info are the quarterly finance reports. The June 30, 2014 report shows that BBRR received $4.3 million in reimbursed payments over the previous fiscal year. Since DRPT is providing 70%, my interpretation is that BBRR completed about $6 million in track and signal work over the past year. NS got paid $58.3M, which I think is mostly the remaining track work on the Norfolk service route. With that much state funding, NS is presumably cooperative when VA DRPT wants to talk to them.

So by sometime in 2016, the Cardinal route through Virginia should see a series of track and signal improvements with an unknown completion date for a new long siding on the BBRR. What that means for the chances of a daily Cardinal, we'll see.
 
A daily Cardinal is a long way off. Even if all of the other conditions were met, Amtrak does not have enough qualified crew members to operate the train between Huntington WV and Charlottesville Va.

The length of the run requires 2 engineers in the cab. With the current schedule, each crew makes 3 one way trips per week.

On this schedule it currently takes an engineer almost 2 full years to get qualified.

Also, most of the current engineers are close to retirement and their replacements will need to be trained.
 
A daily Cardinal is a long way off. Even if all of the other conditions were met, Amtrak does not have enough qualified crew members to operate the train between Huntington WV and Charlottesville Va.

The length of the run requires 2 engineers in the cab. With the current schedule, each crew makes 3 one way trips per week.

On this schedule it currently takes an engineer almost 2 full years to get qualified.
This is ludicrous. 300 trips (in a given direction) along the route to be qualified? Absolutely absurd. No sane country in the world would have this regulation, because it's ridiculous. They don't have this rule for truck drivers, and for them it's much more important to know the territory. Abolish the rule, it's dumb. (Actually, in areas with cab signals and PTC and quiet-zone crossings, you barely need engineers at all.)

That said, there won't be enough spare cars for a daily Cardinal for two years anyway. New Viewliners are needed, and with urgent profitable opportunities to put them on other trains, there are unlikely to be enough before late 2016. And new coaches are needed; the only likely source of those is the Horizons, which won't be displaced by the new bilevels until 2016 either.

If Amtrak got started now, it would be easy enough to qualify engineers by 2017. If necessary, send 'em on CSX & BBRR freight trains to speed up the traning. Perhaps this is something which NARP could advocate for; if it really takes so ludicrously long to jump through the FRA hoops, Amtrak needs to get started qualifying engineers now.
 
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The $7 million North Mountain Siding Project received $2.45 million of VA funds in FY2014, it is to received another $2.45M in state FY2016 which starts on July 1, 2015. So BBRR could have the funds to start by next fall on the new long siding for the BBRR North Mountain division which the Cardinal runs on if they are ready to.
Unfortunately, I really doubt that one long siding is enough to reliably run the Cardinal opposite the "direction of traffic" on a daily basis. Has anyone done a needs analysis to figure out how many sidings are actually needed on that division?
 
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A daily Cardinal is a long way off. Even if all of the other conditions were met, Amtrak does not have enough qualified crew members to operate the train between Huntington WV and Charlottesville Va.

The length of the run requires 2 engineers in the cab. With the current schedule, each crew makes 3 one way trips per week.

On this schedule it currently takes an engineer almost 2 full years to get qualified.
This is ludicrous. 300 trips (in a given direction) along the route to be qualified? Absolutely absurd. No sane country in the world would have this regulation, because it's ridiculous. They don't have this rule for truck drivers, and for them it's much more important to know the territory. Abolish the rule, it's dumb. (Actually, in areas with cab signals and PTC and quiet-zone crossings, you barely need engineers at all.)

That said, there won't be enough spare cars for a daily Cardinal for two years anyway. New Viewliners are needed, and with urgent profitable opportunities to put them on other trains, there are unlikely to be enough before late 2016. And new coaches are needed; the only likely source of those is the Horizons, which won't be displaced by the new bilevels until 2016 either.

If Amtrak got started now, it would be easy enough to qualify engineers by 2017. If necessary, send 'em on CSX & BBRR freight trains to speed up the traning. Perhaps this is something which NARP could advocate for; if it really takes so ludicrously long to jump through the FRA hoops, Amtrak needs to get started qualifying engineers now.
Based on the current schedule, a daily Cardinal would likely need a third train set. That's a tall order indeed.

1-2 locomotives, a baggage car/bag-dorm, two sleepers, a diner, a cafe, and 3-4 coaches.
 
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Based on the current schedule, a daily Cardinal would likely need a third train set. That's a tall order indeed.

1-2 locomotives, a baggage car/bag-dorm, two sleepers, a diner, a cafe, and 3-4 coaches.
Yes, a daily Cardinal would require 3 consists. How much additional equipment that would be needed for a daily Cardinal (and replacing the Hoosier State) was discussed in the FY2010 Cardinal PIP report.

When the new Viewliners are delivered, there will easily be enough equipment to supply a baggage/bag-dorm car, 2 sleepers, and a full service diner car for a 3rd Cardinal consist. There are 25 Amfleet II diner/cafe cars and there should be enough to support a 3rd Cardinal.

Getting 3 additional Amfleet II coach cars are the issue, but the delivery of the corridor bi-level cars to the Midwest will free up Horizon coach cars starting in 2017. There are Amfleet II coach cars used on the Pennsylvanian, Adirondack, and Maple Leaf which are all now state supported corridor trains. Perhaps Amtrak can use state capital equipment payments to refurb and convert a batch of Horizon coach cars into medium-long distance corridor cars for use on the Pennsylvanian, Adirondack, ML, Carolinian. However, the Horizons don't do well in cold winter weather, so using them on trains to Montreal or Toronto may not be the best idea. Might be simpler to refurn and convert 20-25 Horizons into LD coach cars and keep them on the southern routes in the winter.

As for locomotives, there are to 32-35 new Siemens Charger diesel locomotives delivered by mid-2017. Some of these will be used for service expansions, but some will free up P-42s used on Midwest corridors, so Amtrak will have more P-42s available for other routes.
 
Well, and let's not forget that the Three Rivers (as far as I can tell) used Horizons (at least, based on the fact that at least one Horizon Cafe/BC was still signed for said train back in January).
 
"Unfortunately, I really doubt that one long siding is enough to reliably run the Cardinal opposite the "direction of traffic" on a daily basis. Has anyone done a needs analysis to figure out how many sidings are actually needed on that division?"

I assume you're referring to empty coal trains. Is there any other feed in of traffic besides the BBRR? I live within earshot of those tracks in CVS and honestly there are is only one or, at most, two of those trains rumbling through daily. Fewer on some days. I really can't see how that much traffic whatever it's length could be that much of a problem. This is as opposed to the NS tracks which are within sight of where I sit: I easily believe the assertion that there are 20-25 trains a day on that line.
 
Hmmm. It might really be viable, in that case. In which case bring it on ASAP; my guesstimate is that daily service would improve the Cardinal's bottom line by over $4 million/year.
 
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