House Bill proposes Privatize Amtrak Dining
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mfastx
Service Attendant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ
On a more serious note, if done right, this wouldn't be too bad. Currently Amtrak food isn't the best, kinda reminds me of airplane food. Why are a lot of people opposed to this?
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amtrakwolverine
Engineer
Might be better then what it is now. Imagine full course meals that actually make you full and real full portion desserts. that is if the right company gets the job. Maybe outback steakhouse or TGIF will bid LOL.
LoneStarJeffe
Train Attendant
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I personally believe outsourcing food service on Amtrak and invest the savings somewhere else might be a good decision depending on where else you might invest the savings. But what do I know? I do not work at Amtrak and see all the numbers and, most importantly, opportunities and trade-offs being made. And that is my point. Neither does congress see those opportunities and trade-offs.I absolutely believe any such decision should be made by Amtrak and not congress. Stop micro-managing and let Amtrak decide within's it's budget where to invest and where to look for savings. Hold senior management at Amtrak responsible for outcomes instead of dictating every decision within their business!
Bierboy
OBS Chief
You're kidding.....right? I have NEVER left the table in a diner car without being full. The meal portions have ALWAYS been more than adequate.
PaulM
Engineer
And then you have dessert to contend with.
The idea to outsource food service on a train is not new. The Santa Fe Railroad did it back in the 40's and 50's when they contracted the Fred Harvey Company to run the dining cars on the Santa Fe Super Chief. Fred Harvey ended up doing a great job of providing high quality gourmet quality food. The idea to do this on Amtrak trains is based on a possible money savings. Is it better to run your own dining cars, pay your own dining car staff and lose money or subsidize an outside food service and lose less money?
Ispolkom
Engineer
After lunch.
daveyb99
OBS Chief
This is not one store at one station. Any company that bids this would be required to run multiple rolling stores with staff traversing the country. I am not so sure anyone has a business model that supports such intense labor activities.
Oh sure, you can cut pay and benefits (which is what this is all about really). But in the end, do we really want some company trying to make it work?
Failure is written all over this. The service would cater under the weight of the logistics. Onboard, things might be fine, but the rest --- HA.
Of course, AMTRAK will never lose money on this gig because they can always charge the contractor for sleeping accommodations. "Oh, your staff wants to sleep and shower onboard? OK, $75 per night per person". And transport to downline stations: "sure, we can haul that contractor, at $1.00 per mile".
No, I venture no bidders when they get a good look at what they would have to contend with OFF the train.
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As a thirty year veteran of the hospitality/foodservice industry, including doing time with SODEXO and owning my own consulting firm, I feel I am well qualified to comment on this. I have to wholeheartedly agree that AMTRAK does not know how to run food service. Much of what they do is inefficient and designed for the comfort of the crew rather than the guest. They need some serious updates in systems including hand held POS menu management systems. They need to revise their service standards, train the staff in the standards better and hold staff accountable to those standards better.
I did not enjoy my time with SODEXO, but I learned a great deal from them. I believe that a company such as SODEXO or ARAMARK COULD improve AMTRAK dining, but only if they were allowed to make the employees their employees, and remove them from the railroad union. Anything else would just be the same product in a new package.
David
Seattle
daveyb99
OBS Chief
Really? Sure, they could us a tech upgrade (which many companies have done long ago), but that crew works every meal every day. The live in a small roomette for days at a time. I have no clue what you are talking about.
You did not enjoy your time at SODEXO yet you want to throw the Union employees under the bus and make them work there? This whole mess in nothing more than a union busting move, and you want a company you can not recommend to hire these veteran AMTRAK employees ... as what, a lower wage no benefit at-will workforce? Come on ....
The Davy Crockett
Engineer
I think the concerns folks have with this are the following:
1) People see this as union busting
2) There is the perception that Congress is micromanaging Amtrak once again. Folks feel that too often Congress does this for political reasons, and not for the best interests of Amtrak. Kind of like team owners who can't help themselves and must micromange their teams because they think they know better than the veteren professionals who manage the team. People like Dan Snyder of the Redskins and Peter Angelos of the Orioles. Looking at the records of those teams under their ownership, people ask: "Is this a way to run a team (railroad)?"
3) I think also that, due to past events, a lot of people distrust the political party from which this proposal came from. They are concerned that this is another attempt to take Amtrak apart one bolt and nut at a time.
4) Folks are concerned that the priority here is saving money and not maintaining food quality. Particularly when one looks at the not so distant past, when Congress gutted the dining car staff and budget.
1) People see this as union busting
2) There is the perception that Congress is micromanaging Amtrak once again. Folks feel that too often Congress does this for political reasons, and not for the best interests of Amtrak. Kind of like team owners who can't help themselves and must micromange their teams because they think they know better than the veteren professionals who manage the team. People like Dan Snyder of the Redskins and Peter Angelos of the Orioles. Looking at the records of those teams under their ownership, people ask: "Is this a way to run a team (railroad)?"
3) I think also that, due to past events, a lot of people distrust the political party from which this proposal came from. They are concerned that this is another attempt to take Amtrak apart one bolt and nut at a time.
4) Folks are concerned that the priority here is saving money and not maintaining food quality. Particularly when one looks at the not so distant past, when Congress gutted the dining car staff and budget.
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I didnt enjoy my time at SODEXO because I thought I knew it all. I didnt. I am grateful for what I learned there. This may indeed be a union busting move, and I am generally a very liberal union supporting person, but perhaps it is time that these employees are no longer represented by the railroad union. As I said in the past, AMTRAK foodservice crews give the impression that we should be grateful that they are there and we, as passengers are but a hinderance to them "completing their trip". In reality they should be grateful that we, the passengers, are there and we are the reason they HAVE a trip.
David
Seattle
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Outside of LA based crews, there is room for huge improvement in obs on all Amtrak trains in the sleepers and the diners. The LA crews in general seemed to be more customer service oriented then Chicago and new York based crews. Do diners do better financially when LA based crews operate them?
The LA based crews work with the same union contract. I don't think the union inherently causes poor service. I think management dealing with the new York and Chicago crews does a poor job. There is a huge lack of consistency in obs on all of those trains. Maybe the union makes it hard to fire these employees. Does the union contract mandate the inefficient business practices in the diner?
The LA based crews work with the same union contract. I don't think the union inherently causes poor service. I think management dealing with the new York and Chicago crews does a poor job. There is a huge lack of consistency in obs on all of those trains. Maybe the union makes it hard to fire these employees. Does the union contract mandate the inefficient business practices in the diner?
I agree I always gain weight on my LD train rides. At the end of my trip I am ready to skip a meal because I am so full. Maybe because I never eat 3 full meals a day when I am not on a train.
Those of us old enough to remember the Automat type cars on the SP, and the Subway Fiasco on the NEC Regional Trains under Amtrak ,would have serious doubts about this micro-management scheme by the usual "run it like a business" self appointed experts in Congress!(I never had the pleasure of ridng on the Super Chief or other Santa Fe Crack Trains had the Harvey Company running the Food Service! )
Sure, Overall, the Food and Service could be more consistent in the Diners if better Training and Hands on Management was provided by Amtrak,but my biggest complaint is actually with the Cafe Cars which sell Convience Store Crap @ High Prices and probably serve the majority of riders since people in Coach outnumber the Sleeper pax by many times!! (A Train Cafe is not Yankee Stadium! )
As others have said, there are serious concerns about having Non-Amtrak Employees working on Trains, and I agree that when for Profit Companies look @ the Books for Food Service on Trains that No-one will want to bid on this idiotic scheme! :excl: :excl: :excl:
)Sure, Overall, the Food and Service could be more consistent in the Diners if better Training and Hands on Management was provided by Amtrak,but my biggest complaint is actually with the Cafe Cars which sell Convience Store Crap @ High Prices and probably serve the majority of riders since people in Coach outnumber the Sleeper pax by many times!! (A Train Cafe is not Yankee Stadium!
)As others have said, there are serious concerns about having Non-Amtrak Employees working on Trains, and I agree that when for Profit Companies look @ the Books for Food Service on Trains that No-one will want to bid on this idiotic scheme!
:excl: :excl: :excl:
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I agree with David. By and far, the worst service I have received on Amtrak was by the dining car crews. Being laughed at when asked if our rolls could be warmed because they were frozen, arguing over who was entitled to meals in the sleeper, etc. There was not one ounce of customer service ever shown to us in the diner. The exact opposite of the sleeping car attendants we have had. Whether it has anything to do with unions or not, it needs improvement. And, who cares if they work everyday while on the train and sleep in a little roomette, that is the job they elected to work, they are not volunteers for whom we should be appreciative. There are others who would love to have a job if they don't want it.
NY Penn
OBS Chief
Wasn't the problem with that that Subway pulled out of it? So it's impossible to know whether it would have been successful.
My understanding was that there was conflicts between Union (Amtrak )Employees and the Subway Hands who werent Amtrak Employees!(And as a result, to this day, there arent Cafe Cars between NYP and ALB that are Open!!!) That's mixing Oil and Water, and as others have said, non Amtrak Employees have no business working/living on Amtrak Trains!
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NY Penn
OBS Chief
That kind of closed-minded thinking is one of the reasons why Amtrak dining is such a failure. Except for the Acela, Amtrak has been mostly unwilling to try new things for a while.My understanding was that there was conflicts between Union (Amtrak )Employees and the Subway Hands who werent Amtrak Employees!(And as a result, to this day, there arent Cafe Cars between NYP and ALB that are Open!!!) That's mixing Oil and Water, and as others have said, non Amtrak Employees have no business working/living on Amtrak Trains!
:hi: I agree with you! I dont blame the Employees, it is Poor Mangement by Amtrak "Suits"That kind of closed-minded thinking is one of the reasons why Amtrak dining is such a failure. Except for the Acela, Amtrak has been mostly unwilling to try new things for a while.My understanding was that there was conflicts between Union (Amtrak )Employees and the Subway Hands who werent Amtrak Employees!(And as a result, to this day, there arent Cafe Cars between NYP and ALB that are Open!!!) That's mixing Oil and Water, and as others have said, non Amtrak Employees have no business working/living on Amtrak Trains!
and Union "Bosses"that is to blame for 1900s Policies/Thinking and "Business as Usual" Operations! !"
Still say that Non-Amtrak Employees have No Business Working on Amtrak Trains!!! :excl: :excl: :excl:
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I agree that the closed mindedness is a major reason for the failures of AMTRAK dining. I believe that current management from a railroad background is not capable of seeing past the "Thats the way its always been done" mindset, whereas a foodservice/hospitality pro from a company dedicated to that business, like SODEXO, Aramark, Eurest, et al could make real substantive changes that would actually increase revenues and customer satisfaction, which could go a long way to ensuring AMTRAK's future.
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daveyb99
OBS Chief
I do not at all disagree with the customer service angle to this. AMTRAK needs to be on that like no tomorrow. Managers grading crews, secret diners, peer reviews even ... what ever it takes to resolve the poor service problem
But the bill does not speak to that point. It says cheaper is better, and the only real 'cheaper' to this is people costs.
This bill should be a wake up to AMTRAK to get the sour grapes out. Time for some hard line negotiation with the Union on this one.
But the bill does not speak to that point. It says cheaper is better, and the only real 'cheaper' to this is people costs.
This bill should be a wake up to AMTRAK to get the sour grapes out. Time for some hard line negotiation with the Union on this one.
amtrakwolverine
Engineer
I agree the dining car crew new of the conditons they were to deal with when they were trained. If they hate there job then quit. there are allot of people out there that would be happy to have a job. just cause you hate your job does not give you the right to take it out on the passengers who are keeping your job. if no one eats in the dining car and the dining car does not make money guess what it goes bye bye along with the job they hate so much.That's why the SSL has a cafe in it so it can make money. if the SSL didn't have a cafe and no money was made from it has no one pays to sit in it then congress would demand the car be cut.
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G
guest
Guest
Rode both the Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin trains last week. The menus in the cafe cars were outstanding, with clam chowder in sourdough bowls, hefty salads, gourmet sandwiches, as well as usual snack food and burgers/sandwiches that a lot of people admittedly do like.
I don't know if the menus are special because Amtrak California is quasi-independent of Amtrak poobahs in Washington when it comes to amenities and customer service treatment.
But the rest of the Amtrak system could take a lesson from the way Amtrak California has worked consistently to improve the menus on the California trains, through constant surveys of passengers and tweaks to the menus on an ongoing basis.
You don't have to have one of two extremes: the sometimes-crappy and customer-unfriendly situations found on certain trains or the minimum-wage, minimum offering alternative possible under the House GOP proposal.
I don't know if the menus are special because Amtrak California is quasi-independent of Amtrak poobahs in Washington when it comes to amenities and customer service treatment.
But the rest of the Amtrak system could take a lesson from the way Amtrak California has worked consistently to improve the menus on the California trains, through constant surveys of passengers and tweaks to the menus on an ongoing basis.
You don't have to have one of two extremes: the sometimes-crappy and customer-unfriendly situations found on certain trains or the minimum-wage, minimum offering alternative possible under the House GOP proposal.
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