hop off hop on?

[darren]

Can't find it anyway, but let's say you're going to take a trip from beginning of the line to the end of the line. But you want to stop along the way, hop off overnight then get back on to continue the next day, is it possible?

 

[haolerider]

Can't find it anyway, but let's say you're going to take a trip from beginning of the line to the end of the line. But you want to stop along the way, hop off overnight then get back on to continue the next day, is it possible?

no, not with the same ticket. you need two reservations.

 

[yarrow]

Can't find it anyway, but let's say you're going to take a trip from beginning of the line to the end of the line. But you want to stop along the way, hop off overnight then get back on to continue the next day, is it possible?

no, not with the same ticket. you need two reservations.

i am aware that separate reservations are needed but what would the price difference be (and why) to book (presumably at the same bucket) sea-chi with no stopovers and the same trip with three stopovers?

 

[MrFSS]

Can't find it anyway, but let's say you're going to take a trip from beginning of the line to the end of the line. But you want to stop along the way, hop off overnight then get back on to continue the next day, is it possible?

no, not with the same ticket. you need two reservations.

i am aware that separate reservations are needed but what would the price difference be (and why) to book (presumably at the same bucket) sea-chi with no stopovers and the same trip with three stopovers?

Most of the time the sum of the parts does not equal the whole. It costs more to do three segments rather than the entire trip at once. That's the pricing world according to Amtrak.

 

[the_traveler]

I think the way it works is that stopovers are allowed on a "regular" paid ticket at no extra charge - IF the journey is resumed in UNDER 24 hours. However, with only 1 train a day, if the train arrives at 9:46 AM, the next one will depart tomorrow at 9:46 AM! That is NOT UNDER 24 hours. Thus, you must have point to point tickets at a higher combined fare.

If there were more than 1 train a day, you could do that. (Example: You arrive at 10:29 AM and depart at 4:37 PM.)

 

[wayman]

Can't find it anyway, but let's say you're going to take a trip from beginning of the line to the end of the line. But you want to stop along the way, hop off overnight then get back on to continue the next day, is it possible?

no, not with the same ticket. you need two reservations.

i am aware that separate reservations are needed but what would the price difference be (and why) to book (presumably at the same bucket) sea-chi with no stopovers and the same trip with three stopovers?

Basically, Amtrak wants to maximize passenger-miles and ensure that their revenue remains steady.

Let's look at a simplified problem, where the Empire Builder only has one coach seat, and only makes one stop between Seattle and Chicago, Minneapolis; and in our simplified world, it's 2000 miles from Seattle to Minneapolis and 1000 miles from Minneapolis to Chicago.

If Amtrak sells a SEA-CHI ticket for a seat, they've maximized passenger-miles for that seat. If they sell a SEA-MSP ticket for a seat, the seat is empty from MSP-CHI, but they've still got a decent chance of also selling an MSP-CHI ticket, and the two together maximize passenger-miles for that seat. They could say "it costs us $300 to pull that seat from SEA-CHI, so we'll charge ten cents per mile: a SEA-CHI ticket costs $300, and a SEA-MSP ticket costs $200, and a MSP-CHI ticket costs $100".

That would make there be no price difference at all if you stop over.

But say they sell a SEA-MSP ticket and they can't sell that MSP-CHI ticket--that's a risk they accept when they sell the SEA-MSP ticket. Maybe nobody else wanted to travel on that day, or maybe a second person wanted to travel SEA-CHI but couldn't because the seat was full from SEA-MSP. Whatever the reason, the seat is empty from MSP-CHI that day.

To compensate for that calculated risk, they raise the price of the SEA-MSP ticket a bit. Likewise, if they sell the MSP-CHI ticket first, there's a chance they won't sell a SEA-MSP ticket, so they raise the price of the MSP-CHI ticket a bit. They've got some sort of formula that tells them what that risk is and what the corresponding "extra bit of fare" is.

Let's use some simple numbers, and say there's a 10% chance that if they sell SEA-MSP, the seat will be empty from MSP-CHI. With 9-to-1 odds, Amtrak needs to charge a SEA-MSP passenger 1/9 the cost of a MSP-CHI ticket: SEA-MSP should cost $200 plus $100/9, or $211. And let's say there's a 20% chance that if they sell MSP-CHI, the seat will be empty from SEA-MSP. With 8-2 odds, Amtrak needs to charge a MSP-CHI passenger 1/4 the cost of a SEA-MSP ticket: MSP-CHI should cost $100 plus $200/4, or $150.

Yes, on a train where they sell passenger A a ticket from SEA-MSP and passenger B a ticket from MSP-CHI, Amtrak makes $361, which is more than if they'd just sold a single ticket from SEA-CHI for that train. But if you look at a month of trains, it should average out to $300 each trip, Amtrak's target in our simplified scenario. Let's test this, and maybe revise our fares. With thirty trains (target 30*$300=$9000)... let's say they sell SEA-CHI on ten of them right off. That's 10*$300=$3000 in Amtrak's pocket, exactly on target. And on another ten, they sell SEA-MSP first, and on the other ten, they sell MSP-CHI first. With the ten SEA-MSP tickets, on nine of those days they then sell a MSP-CHI ticket, so they make 10*$211 plus 9*$150, or $3460; and with the ten MSP-CHI tickets, on eight of those days they then sell a SEA-MSP ticket, so they make 8*$211 plus 10*$150, or $3188. So we're a little over target of $9000 (having made $9648 here), and we can reduce those fares slightly. One way we could do it is to charge $211 and $116; another is $200 and $126; or go the other way to $228 and $100; and there are others. But we can't reduce them all the way down to $200 and $100.

Of course, the math is much more complex in reality--many more stops, different demographics and ridership per city-pair, and so on. Oh, and the Empire Builder has more than one coach seat in reality The formulas are going to be pretty complicated, assuming Amtrak wants to take every possible factor into account. Airlines go even further than Amtrak does with their fomulas--they take into account not only what's sold and what remains in inventory, but how many days remain to sell the remaining inventory! But the end result is going to be the same: it will always cost a bit more to go from A-B and then B-C than just straight from A-C. And sometimes a lot more.

 

[wayman]

I think the way it works is that stopovers are allowed on a "regular" paid ticket at no extra charge - IF the journey is resumed in UNDER 24 hours. However, with only 1 train a day, if the train arrives at 9:46 AM, the next one will depart tomorrow at 9:46 AM! That is NOT UNDER 24 hours. Thus, you must have point to point tickets at a higher combined fare.
If there were more than 1 train a day, you could do that. (Example: You arrive at 10:29 AM and depart at 4:37 PM.)

Not in all cases, or at least not when the NEC comes into play.

The Crescent is the same price from Atlanta to Philadelphia as from Atlanta to New York--since the train is discharge only at Philadelphia, Amtrak can't sell the seat from Philadelphia to New York. And if I buy a ticket on the next Regional PHL-NYP, it ain't free

 

[the_traveler]

You're correct with the example of the Crescent, but you could go from WAS-BAL on a Regional, wait for the next train, go BAL-WIL on a Regional, wait for the next train, and then go WIL-PHL on a Regional for the same fare as going WAS-PHL! (And as an added bonus, you would earn the 100 point minimum per train! But it does add many hours to the trip. But you could do it.)

 

[wayman]

You're correct with the example of the Crescent, but you could go from WAS-BAL on a Regional, wait for the next train, go BAL-WIL on a Regional, wait for the next train, and then go WIL-PHL on a Regional for the same fare as going WAS-PHL! (And as an added bonus, you would earn the 100 point minimum per train! But it does add many hours to the trip. But you could do it.)

Interesting! I don't think that's true on the Keystone... if I go from Paoli-Ardmore, hang out for an hour or two, then Ardmore-PHL, I think that costs two $6 tickets... but it's just a single $6 ticket to ride PAO-PHL.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Since we dont have any regionals down here (sigh), my example is the TE/SL! Its the same price from SAS-FTW and SAS-DAL for coach, but if you get off in FTW and ride to DAL the next day its $9 more (of course youll get 400 points with the fall promotion for each leg!), however on the reverse trip (TE #21/#421) it costs more to ride #421 than #21 from DAL or FTW to SAS than on #21??? Since Amtrak closed the same day loophole on trains like this most people ride the TRE train to/from DAL for $1.50 but of course you get no AGR points! When/if the new routing starts between FTW-DAL Amtrak should consider reducing the price to attract more riders since there will also be a stop for DFW airport!

Does the same deal apply to Acela in the NE as to Regionals, in other words can you ride WAS-PHI/PHI-NYP/NYP-BOS for the same price as WAS-BOS?

 

[AlanB]

You're correct with the example of the Crescent, but you could go from WAS-BAL on a Regional, wait for the next train, go BAL-WIL on a Regional, wait for the next train, and then go WIL-PHL on a Regional for the same fare as going WAS-PHL! (And as an added bonus, you would earn the 100 point minimum per train! But it does add many hours to the trip. But you could do it.)

Interesting! I don't think that's true on the Keystone... if I go from Paoli-Ardmore, hang out for an hour or two, then Ardmore-PHL, I think that costs two $6 tickets... but it's just a single $6 ticket to ride PAO-PHL.

That's only true if you make two seperate reservations. If however you book train #652 PAO-PHL for today it costs $6.50 one way with no discounts. Go to the multi-city page and book PAO-ARD on 652 and then ARD-PHL on 654, and it will still cost $6.50 with no discounts.

 

[wayman]

You're correct with the example of the Crescent, but you could go from WAS-BAL on a Regional, wait for the next train, go BAL-WIL on a Regional, wait for the next train, and then go WIL-PHL on a Regional for the same fare as going WAS-PHL! (And as an added bonus, you would earn the 100 point minimum per train! But it does add many hours to the trip. But you could do it.)

Interesting! I don't think that's true on the Keystone... if I go from Paoli-Ardmore, hang out for an hour or two, then Ardmore-PHL, I think that costs two $6 tickets... but it's just a single $6 ticket to ride PAO-PHL.

That's only true if you make two seperate reservations. If however you book train #652 PAO-PHL for today it costs $6.50 one way with no discounts. Go to the multi-city page and book PAO-ARD on 652 and then ARD-PHL on 654, and it will still cost $6.50 with no discounts.

Alan, you have just saved me a ton of cash the next time I do AGR point runs on the Keystone!