Hoosier State goes from Amtrak to Corridor Capital

[R30A]

My impression is neither added nor different. I suspect that such simply means that the club-lounge normally included on the train will be opened.
However, this probably brings to an end the ability to use the Cardinal's consist on an offday which they have been doing on occasion.

 

[MikefromCrete]

So if this a state support train. Did the state get a bill for the improved features? ...

...

I agree with the new service, but how do you explain it to another state?

I recall an announcement that ALL corridor trains had free Wi-Fi.

ALL except the Hoosier State -- until now? How was it explained

that every other state had Wi-Fi?

OK, Business Class. Does that mean an added car, or merely

a different car? Doesn't sound like a big cost for that upgrade.

OK, light refreshments. Can Amtrak keep costs low and sell

enuff stuff to break even? Because Boardman promised Mica

and the gang of haters that Amtrak will eliminate losses on

food & beverage service. Then if they can break even on food

& beverages on the Hoosier State, then lessons learned can

be applied elsewhere too.

1. It wasn't explained, there was just no wi-fi.

2. A cafe/business class car has been added.

3. Amtrak claims that cafe cars either make money or break even, depending on the train. It's LD dining cars that are big money losers.

 

[fairviewroad]

So if this a state support train. Did the state get a bill for the improved features? ...

...

I agree with the new service, but how do you explain it to another state?

I recall an announcement that ALL corridor trains had free Wi-Fi.

ALL except the Hoosier State -- until now? How was it explained

that every other state had Wi-Fi?

I'm not sure I'd consider the Hoosier State a "corridor train."

 

[Anderson]

So if this a state support train. Did the state get a bill for the improved features? ...

...

I agree with the new service, but how do you explain it to another state?

I recall an announcement that ALL corridor trains had free Wi-Fi.

ALL except the Hoosier State -- until now? How was it explained

that every other state had Wi-Fi?

I'm not sure I'd consider the Hoosier State a "corridor train."

It is by technicality. "Corridor trains" usually means non-LD trains (generally off of the NEC).

 

[MrFSS]

HERE is the latest wish list.

 

[PerRock]

Quite the wishlist. Sounds like IN will be getting Chargers at some point as well (locomotives to be built by Cummins, which is who is helping build the Chargers). It'll be interesting to see if CC can really make any of that happen.

peter

 

[Palmland]

Interesting that the 'wish list' mentions nothing about an improved routing into Chicago. To me, that seems the biggest roadblock to improved rspeed and reliability which would be a big factor in better ridership.

 

[jis]

HERE is the latest wish list.

Last time I looked they had not legalized any Schedule 1 drugs in Indiana yet, had they? Someone has a potent private stash I see. :help:

BTW, just came across this on the Trains website:

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/observation-tower/archive/2014/10/03/lessons-from-indiana-s-experiment-with-intercity-passenger-train-competition.aspx

 

[afigg]

Last time I looked they had not legalized any Schedule 1 drugs in Indiana yet, had they? Someone has a potent private stash I see. :help:

That is generally my reaction to the wish list as well to the list after Phases 1, !-A, and 2. Besides no mention of an improved routing into Chicago (which is not really something under CC's control anyway), there is no mention of funding for capital improvements for the tracks between CHI-IND, IND-CIN or to Louisville. So they are going to run slow daytime service trains without track upgrades for better passenger service?

Page 4 with "Beyond Daytime Corridor Trains" for a CHI - WAS train suggest CC is taking something really potent.

If CC or Amtrak, with subsidies from IN, were to implement Phase 1-A with a daily HS with earlier departure times from IND and CHI, that would allow Amtrak to shift the Cardinal schedule for a little later departure from CHI allowing more connections to be made.

 

[Metra Electric Guest]

The problems I see with their proposal, or the big problem, really, is that, despite congestion on I-65 (and in winter, the stretch around Lafayette is prone to ice storms, shutting the highway down), it's still an hour faster to drive - I did it in two and a half once - and the arrival times aren't great for a days business or visit. There is a certainly a market from Indy for weekend trips to Chicago - they used to advertize musicals playing in Chicago more in Indy than in Chicago, so there needs to be an after work train to Chicago! And to really compete, the train needs to compete with the bus price and time-wise. I like their plan for connections to Ohio, Kentucky and Missouri.

I didn't realize that Cummins was leaving Columbus, Indiana...

 

[neroden]

Nice wishlist, but it's going to founder on the problem of getting agreements with the host railroads.

 

[jphjaxfl]

In the late 60s and early 70s. there was a good passenger train usage between Indianapolis and Chicago. The James Whitcomb Riley left Indianapolis in mid morning and arrived at Chicago Central Station at 12:50pm. It returned leaving Chicago around 5:00pm. Even after Amtrak started, the patronage was good until about 1973 when the tracks from Kankakee to Indianapolis deteriorated. The train was rerouted several times and for a while used an ex C&O route that by passed Indianapolis. If the state of Indiana had bought the former New York Central, Big Four routing from Kankakee through Indianapolis to Cincinnati, it would have been perfect for a higher speed rail route. It was flat and straight and back in the 1950s the faster trains like the Riley used to fly . Sadly the route was abandoned and is no more

 

[MikefromCrete]

Unfortunately, far too many rail lines in Indiana, especially north-south ones were abandoned in the Penn Central/Conrail era. Indiana is not exactly a forward-looking place, so these routes are probably lost forever.

 

[PerRock]

What is news to me, I was told in another forum, that INDOT hasn't actually picked CC to be the provider. They just said that CC is their preferred provider. I thought CC had been picked already; can anyone confirm or deny this?

peter

 

[keelhauled]

HERE is the latest wish list.

It sounds like a railfan's wish list, not something that a business would come up with. I am truly baffled that they could publicly present that without at least mentioning in passing the fact that no money exists to start any of it.

 

[William W.]

HERE is the latest wish list.

It sounds like a railfan's wish list, not something that a business would come up with. I am truly baffled that they could publicly present that without at least mentioning in passing the fact that no money exists to start any of it.

Service to Louisville will never happen, unfortunately. The track condition is deplorable between IND and LOU. I'd love to see Cincinnati service, but that would require Ohio and Cincinnati to play ball. Kasich is rabidly anti-rail, and it took Cincy 10 years just to agree to build a small streetcar route, so I also don't see that being likely either.

The other points seem realistic though. The big thing will be whether the state agrees to fund track improvements between IND and CHI. Without them, any improvements in service frequency and reliability are unlikely to happen.

 

[Ryan]

Wow. I can't believe these people think they're going to be taken seriously.

• Current Hoosier State annual revenues are $908,000. This money automatically goes to Amtrak in Washington; under Corridor Capital that money will stay in Indiana.

• Indiana pays Amtrak an annual subsidy of $2,900,000 for operations and equipment maintenance, all of which goes to Amtrak in Washington; under Corridor Capital that money will stay in Indiana.

• Indiana pays Amtrak an annual cost of $429,000 for equipment capital charges, all of which goes to Amtrak in Washington; under Corridor Capital that money will stay in Indiana. Together, these three items total $4,237,000, all of which leaves the state, and in the future will remain in the state.

Amtrak has no employees in the state of Indiana? None? I hardly think so.

Ridership is expected to grow dramatically; currently Amtrak does no marketing in Indiana for the Hoosier State or its Cardinal long distance service.

I find this nearly impossible to believe.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

As I recall, the Cardinal filled up between IND & CHI last year on my trip to the gathering.

 

[Anderson]

I did enjoy the mention of "an Indian-based marketing campaign". Something tells me that's going to end up with too many Chiefs and not enough passengers...

Joking aside, the basic concept of their plan isn't a bad one...Chicago, Louisville, and Cincinnati are all good destinations from Indianapolis on paper, and the point about better times spiking ridership is a valid one. Frankly, a daily train with better timing should be able to at least double ridership over the present 4x daily operation.

Once you get into practical details, however, things break down...and I think this is a case of a bunch of clueless people looking at the top line and not checking the details (i.e. making sure that CC had, you know, talked with Amtrak about their plans and was willing to cooperate). I'm going to put a lot of blame on CC for this one, though in all fairness I'm also going to spare a dirty look for Amtrak (which could probably have found a way to soak CC on the operating contract for a train that it has clearly not wanted to operate for quite a while).

All of that being said, even adding in the business class and food service is likely going to help a lot in terms of ridership simply by making a humane riding experience available...right now, the Hoosier State feels like a presentation of the worst performance SP put on back in the 60s: Slow operation, mediocre-at-best OTP, no food service, no upgraded seats available (and probably a fair share of frozen toilets in the winter to boot). Wifi should also help...at the very least, these improvements should allow the train to grab some more connecting passengers out of Chicago.

One other thing: At least to me, the takeaway from this isn't about Amtrak rewarding states for treating it badly. The takeaway is that Amtrak and Indiana had a relationship that was horridly broken both ways for quite a while...Indiana didn't care about the Hoosier State and Amtrak never even made a passing attempt to make the train work better. State politics aside, I can't blame Indiana for looking for another operator at all...Indiana and Amtrak treated one another badly for a long, long time and this is simply that relationship playing out naturally.

 

[iggy]

When I did a round trip on Hoosier State last Fall - ridership numbers seemed comparable to other routes I have ridden. Business class and Cafe are long overdue and as far as I'm aware have been requested for some time. Amtrak can't do much about on-time performance do to congestion coming into and leaving Chicago - not sure how a new operator could get around such a problem.

Leaving Chicago I had a very long wait until train got signal to proceed. In video on my website - Hoosier State conductor clearly states we could arrive in Chicago early because this was possible on Sundays.

Thank you for riding the Mighty Hoosier State - time marker 9:36

Search engine my name with train name should get you to content.

 

[afigg]

Boardman has written a letter to Indiana and INDOT which was published in the Lafayette Journal and Courier: Amtrak CEO: Decide what you want in Hoosier State. He is basically telling INDOT, get a clue as to how to run a passenger railroad service.

Excerpt:

I believe there have been inaccuracies and misinformation regarding Amtrak’s operation of the Hoosier State train service under a contract with the Indiana Department of Transportation.

This was brought to focus most recently when Amtrak hosted community leaders and elected officials on an inspection tour of the route. I learned a lot during the tour about community desires for this service, and I believe the community representatives gained some valuable insights into the challenges and complexities of operating a safe and efficient passenger rail service. I’d like to more broadly share these issues with your readers.

Today, Amtrak operates the Hoosier State with our train equipment and crews, manages the ticketing process and performs equipment maintenance. We are responsible for paying the host railroads who own the track used for the service. We must meet federal regulations for crew training and supervision, any food service that is provided, the on-board water quality and waste disposal.

The Hoosier State operates on six different railroads between Indianapolis and Chicago. Authorization to operate over those railroads, rail access charges and indemnity need to be arranged with each of the freight railroads who own a segment of the rail where the train travels. Arrangements for service and maintenance of the train cars have to be made. Schedules and the impact on federal safety requirements have to be considered if current layover times are adjusted, especially if it creates a need to hire additional crews. Today, Amtrak accomplishes all of that for the Hoosier State based on a cost allocation among all of our state-supported services.

What the heck is CC claiming about their equipment?

The leasing company designated as Indiana’s vendor claims to have “indestructible” railcars that are “available now,” but it was unable to meet the Oct. 1 deadline to assume the service. Instead, Amtrak and Indiana have extended the Amtrak contract until the end of January.

Unless the railcar is made out of a Puppeteer hull, it is not indestructible. h34r:

 

[Ryan]

Wow, strong words there.

Interesting that he leads off with the "VRE Model", since Amtrak's loss of the operating contract for VRE was considered a major blow to Amtrak when it happened.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

What New Mexico train operator is Boardman talking about?

"Recently, a private operator providing trains in New Mexico lasted only four months before failing on a route much shorter and less complicated than the Hoosier State."

 

[Paulus]

What New Mexico train operator is Boardman talking about?

"Recently, a private operator providing trains in New Mexico lasted only four months before failing on a route much shorter and less complicated than the Hoosier State."

X-Train was running some nonsense thing down there.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

So a pie in the sky failure is a reason that Amtrak is the right selection for the Hoosier state.

Sorry too much BS flying around this topic.

Is this how ever state contract is reward? Fancy words, and loose facts.