Help! SEA-LAX-NYP as a 3 zone

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zephyr17

Engineer
AU Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
8,080
Location
Washington State
I tried to book a 3 zone award by forcing it as a 1 zone SEA-ABQ, then a 2 zone ABQ-NYP, as suggested here. The AGR agent said in order to do that, I'd have to stay overnight in Albuquerque, I couldn't redeem it that way staying on the same train.

I am determined to use this trip to take the Southwest Chief so to ride the current route at least this one more time.

Does anyone have any advice on how to approach the agent to get this routing. The Starlight is over $500 one way for a roomette on the dates I want to travel, and I really don't want to pay it. It would be cheaper to stay overnight in Albuquerque, but I really don't want to break up the trip. For one thing, I like the rhythm of a long, continuous train ride, the other thing is this trip is taking long enough as it is there are other expenses associated (like getting back).

It is kind of funny, because I could do a routing via the Sunset and Crescent or via the CZ perfectly legally.

Finally, if I decide to bite the bullet and take what's offered, does anyone have any hotel suggestions for Albuquerque near the station?
 
Well, you could simply book SEA-ABQ with Agent 1 and then call back and book ABQ-NYP with agent 2.

You could request the same room as you got for the first portion of the trip. Worst case is you'd have to

change rooms in ABQ but since that would happen in the middle of the day it wouldn't be a hardship. But you

certainly wouldn't miss the connection since it would be the same train. The agent you spoke with obviously

isn't the creative type.
 
It might be because of the overnight stay required in LA anyway. If you're only going one way, try going westbound. When I do NYP to SEA on Amtrak.com, the SWC comes up as a valid route.
 
I'd say try another agent or a supervisor, too. I've read every word I can find regarding the new guidelines, and I don't understand why the agent wouldn't let you book your trip, especially as a 1-zone and a 2-zone. Not understanding why they'd insist on an overnight between two awards. Good luck with it, and please let us know how it turns out.
 
fairviewroad said:
The agent you spoke with obviously isn't the creative type.
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Rail Freak said:
TALK TO ANOTHER AGENT &/OR SUPERVISOR!!!!
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the_traveler said:
My advice is to call again.
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Ryan said:
Try a better agent.
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crescent2 said:
I'd say try another agent or a supervisor, too.
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Apparently most folks believe this is just some rogue agent running amok, but I've heard this exact same claim from multiple agents on my own phone calls.
 
DA: That is what is so frustrating in trying to plan a trip.

Compare this thread's OP's experience to that of Rail Freak's thread. He fortunately got a very cooperative agent.

I just like to know what to expect before I call, but I'm not sure there's a way to know even with the published guidelines.
 
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If the agents were really just "clueless" then wouldn't they be coming up with different claims and answers from each other? It seems rather unlikely that multiple agents just randomly invented the exact same claim out of nothing. This has all the hallmarks of an actual policy that may or may not still be in effect. Maybe these conflicting policies will be clarified in our favor. Maybe they won't.
 
Also the new redemption rules were just put into place a couple of weeks ago. (June 6, 2013 IIRC.) So it is possible that the agent didn't know, or thought "... we've always did it that way!", thus the advice to try another agent or a supervisor.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
If the agents were really just "clueless" then wouldn't they be coming up with different claims and answers from each other? It seems rather unlikely that multiple agents just randomly invented the exact same claim out of nothing. This has all the hallmarks of an actual policy that may or may not still be in effect.
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Or more likely, the agents were all trained by the same person.
 
AlanB said:
Devil's Advocate said:
If the agents were really just "clueless" then wouldn't they be coming up with different claims and answers from each other? It seems rather unlikely that multiple agents just randomly invented the exact same claim out of nothing. This has all the hallmarks of an actual policy that may or may not still be in effect.
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Or more likely, the agents were all trained by the same person.
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So now the theory is a rogue trainer. Fair enough.

How do we explain excalation to supervisors resulting in confirmation of the original claim?

Are the supervisors also going rogue?
 
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Called back talked to another agent and then talked to a supervisor. No dice, they are really adament about this, in a polite way. However, he did suggest an alternative of topping off my AGR account by buying enough points so I have another 1 zone redemption available to cover the Starlight. Turns out that is a LOT cheaper than flat out buying a Starlight roomette ticket.

I've hit a brick wall here. The bad news is they are sticking to those new guidelines to the letter, the good news is at least they are clear and appear be being applied consistently.

I also PM'd AGR Insider on Flyertalk.com, but he hasn't replied yet.

Finally, the reason I am not going the "legal" other direction (NYP-LAX-SEA)is that one of the major points of this trip is to ride the Canadian westbound and Via is running the 50% off sale now I have been waiting for. I did eastbound a couple of years ago and want to go the other way.

PS-It also appears they are noting things in my customer record there, so to call back to shop for a yes may no longer work. I was very polite to everyone, by the way.
 
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I guess I don't understand. Is the "problem" that you are making back-to-back awards reservations for the same train?

If so, just buy a cash ticket from ABQ-LMY for $20 or so in coach, then make your second AGR redemption from LMY-NYP.

Yeah, you'd have to schlep your stuff around the train (though you could probably just leave your bags in the same sleeper

downstairs racks) but it would be much cheaper than burning another 15,000 points for a separate one-zone award on the CS.

And you wouldn't be violating some rule--real or imagined--about back-to-back awards reservations. People make award-paid

"transfers" on the same train all the time.

And you wouldn't have to tell any phone agent what you are planning, since you would make the SEA-ABQ reservation with

Agent 1, buy ABQ-LMY online, then make LMY-NYP with agent #2.

Downside is that if there is a "note" in your customer service record, they may figure out what you're up to.
 
Don't know the reason. The agent gave me some song-and-dance about it could kick them out because of "duplicate reservations" although since they are between different points that seems like BS to me. But both agents and the supervisor said the same thing and did mention a rule against back-to-back awards. It didn't occur to be to book a ABQ-LMY coach ticket, though.

Burning the other award was a better alternative for me than buying a SEA-LAX ticket, that would have blown too big a hole in my budget. After talking to the supervisor, I figured I was at the end of the road and went ahead with the 3 + 1 redemption to do the trip.

The agents I talked to and the supervisor did mention they were noting my AGR account. They presented it as a positive, that once I got the extra points they'd be able to understand what I wanted and help me with minimal fuss. But it was clear they were noting unusual requests.
 
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I also don't understand the "problem.

Last October, I did KIN-ELP, then on the same train ELP-ABQ, then on the same train ABQ-PHL. (Of course I didn't list all the connecting cities.) In March, I did KIN-ELP, then on the same train ELP-WPT,then on the same train WPT-KIN. (Again I didn't show the connecting cities.)

Every time I travel on an AGR award, I separate the 2 zone award and the 1 zone award at the border city. I always stay on the same train also.
 
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I don't pretend to understand the "problem" either, but 3 different folks at AGR said it was a "problem". Traveler, when was the last time you did it? I get the feeling this "problem" started when they put the guidelines into effect this month.
 
zephyr17 said:
I don't pretend to understand the "problem" either, but 3 different folks at AGR said it was a "problem". Traveler, when was the last time you did it? I get the feeling this "problem" started when they put the guidelines into effect this month.
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In my experience the forced stopover rule has been in effect for months prior to the most recent changes.
 
crescent2 said:
17: Please elaborate on what you were originally trying to do. I don't think I understand, either. I'm trying to learn the AGR rules. Thanks-
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I wanted to travel SEA-NYP using a routing SEA-LAX on 11, LAX-CHI on 4, and CHI-NYP on 48 on a 3 zone award. This was disallowed by 3 different AGR folks (2 agents and a supervisor). The basic reason is that routing is not a "designated route" in the Arrow system between SEA-NYP. Trying to do it as a 1 zone award, SEA-ABQ, and a 2 zone award, ABQ-NYP did not work, even though both those segments are in Arrow as "designated routes" (even with the overnight layover in LA) because what Devil's Advocate aptly calls the "forced stopover rule"...that they won't book award travel into and out of the same station on the same day on the same train as two awards. You apparently now must stay overnight for to book it with 2 award redemptions. The rationale they gave for it didn't make a lot of sense to me ("could look like a duplicate booking and be cancelled"?!), instead it really seems to boil down to "we make the rules for this and we say so."

It is a little absurd because both SEA-SAC (11), SAC-CHI (6), CHI-NYP (48) and SEA-LAX (11), LAX-NOL (2), NOL-NYP (20) are legal designated routes SEA-NYP. I could have swung down through LA and New Orleans (with an overnight layover), which about as indirect a routing as you can get, and booked that as legitimate 3-zone award. But I couldn't do it via LA and Chicago. Further, exactly the same routing is a legal designated route going the other direction NYP-SEA: NYP-CHI(49),CHI-LAX(3),LAX-SEA(14).
 
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Devil's Advocate said:
zephyr17 said:
I don't pretend to understand the "problem" either, but 3 different folks at AGR said it was a "problem". Traveler, when was the last time you did it? I get the feeling this "problem" started when they put the guidelines into effect this month.
Click to expand...
In my experience the forced stopover rule has been in effect for months prior to the most recent changes.
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Can't disagree. Since they just made pretty significant changes this month and absent other information and that was all right sometime in the past, it seemed a reasonable hypothesis that they put that in place with the other changes. I take it as disproven.
 
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