Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[rickycourtney]

Looks like they blew the cover for BoltBus.

Greyhound blew their cover in regards to BoltBus long ago here in the PNW. They've been using the station in Portland to store buses during layovers for years now. Even more visible us the situation in Vancouver where BoltBus and Greyhound operate side-by-side (much like they do in SF). That's why I wonder why they don't have a logo by the front door that says something like "proudly operated by Greyhound" I think it helps improve the Greyhound image in the eyes of some of the companies most high value passengers without really hurting the BoltBus image.

I don't understand how come Greyhound's D4505's have that thick black trim abov ethe window line. Looks like they have double trim while the current D4500CL/CT have single trim. Then it looks like they painted an added thick black stripe all the way to the top above the double black trim.

They didn't do such "decoration" for the DL3, Blue G, or X3-45.

I think the glossy black paint above the windows is a sharp look and makes them look bigger. It reminds me of the look of the X3-45 where the windows wrap up to the roof.

 

[railiner]

I have a different opinion of the long time trend to "blackout" the side windows.....by that I mean, I am so old-fashioned, I love the original "silversides" look where fluted aluminum covered the sides between and up to the windows, as in the old GM coaches of the forties thru the sixties. It was around the early seventies, when the trend to paint the sides black between and around the windows, to give the illusion they were bigger, began....

But then again, I have always expressed my preference for fluted stainless steel, or polished aluminum on all transport from Budd's to Boeing's to buses, over painted......

 

[railiner]

To add to the above.....sometimes it can be "too much".....a couple of weeks ago, I saw a new Rolls-Royce Phantom in Manhattan whose every exterior surface was a mirror-like chrome plating. Talk about "bling".......

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

While I like that look for its detailed, intricate style, the new "blackout" window line seems much more imposing and stylish from a distance.

Technically, the D4505 does have the same side window height as the X3-45, just placed lower, which I still prefer.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Look at what Peter Pan has: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7YJXAr8ygU.

Yes, an intercity D4500CT. They have 12 of them ordered together with the J4500's. Shouldn't be a state-supported order because it was combined with the J4500 order. Apparently they are also disappointed at the D4505.

 

[rickycourtney]

Other than a few cosmetic changes, what exactly is the difference between the D4500CT and the D4505?

Also, Peter Pan's livery is just... awful.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

My experience has been that it is more consistent in terms of ride quality, but I'm not sure why. My ride on YARTS to Yosemite was significantly better than that Greyhound D4505 I rode on the same trip even though both had the same seats and engine. Perhaps the D4505 has some difference that I couldn't find on the spec sheet. You will notice the wheelchair lift door of that unit is quite large compared to the Greyhound D4505's. I think Peter Pan looks fine if they didn't have the "peterpanbus.com" written along the top of the windows.

BTW, the current D4500CT is available with the J4500 interior but it's not listed on the specs. I saw a video of it on YouTube in NJT service. No LED courtesy lighting though, it still has the old J4500 halogen (or incandescent?) lighting strips along the ceiling. I'm sure it's available with LED if one orders it. Probably in the D4505 too but this shows the specs aren't everything. Just like how the D4500CT isn't shown as a line-haul coach, it's shown as "Commuter" but some people use it for line-haul.

Edit: What D is this? https://www.flickr.com/photos/genevievelepine/2413301051/sizes/l. That is a D interior, says ex-Voyaguer, has a blue headliner and enclosed parcel racks. I doubt it's actually ex-Voyageur but I could be wrong.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Bus builders aren't automakers, Swad. I can get whatever I want from MCI, Prevost, Van Hool, or Setra. I just have to pay for it. If I wanted an MCI J4500 with the interior made out of peet moss with a Volvo engine, I'm sure I could get it. Might have to pay a few million, but they'd build it.

 

[rickycourtney]

Took the train down to Portland yesterday and since the Greyhound station is just a couple of steps away from Union Station I snapped a couple of pictures for you Swad:



And another one I snapped in the evening:

Geek away...

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Thanks Ricky. I looked up the timetable, everything in Portland to/from Seattle is now a Los Angeles through service. That explains the D4505's. The BoltBus units, we know what they are doing. The DL3 (or two?) is most likely from Denver. The White G is most likely from Spokane or maybe one of the last left in Los Angeles. The Blue G's, I'm guessing they're from Denver? Because there's no more Seattle-Portland runs that don't go all the way to Los Angeles, and we know Los Angeles is D4505 Land.

Did you catch the Blue G numbers? I would like to add to my list.

Oh, regarding the D4500CT with the J4500 interior, yes, you can get what you pay for, but NJT gives orders to the lowest bidder.

 

[rickycourtney]

There was a Blue G (#7191) on schedule 1429 to Los Angeles tonight.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Swad: do me a favor and PM me. Is like to stay in contact with you, my friend.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

#7191 you say? Well, I caught it in Reno: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95851032@N07/14367776669/. I'm pretty sure it's based from Denver, someone else caught it getting washed in Denver. Blue G heading to Los Angeles? Did you see it in Portland or Seattle? Perhaps it was going to stop in Portland, hand off to a Los Angeles-based D4505, then run to Denver.

Say, I was looking at various seat specs, and I was wondering what you guys thought about the tables at the rear of motorcoaches? I always thought they would be a bad idea, wasting room for recline. I also remember the old radio modules on Adirondack's National Seating, I bet no one uses it anymore, but they're still listed on some specs. They also have the regular options like tray tables, cup holders, manual and "automatic" footrests, seat backs that match the seat covers or carpeted seat backs, the list goes on and on. I guess winged is preferred over flat or pillow headrests. Really interested in the new National 4210SB10, wonder how it stacks up to Amaya Torino G and A-2TEN.

 

[metrolinecoach111]

Looks like they blew the cover for BoltBus.

Greyhound blew their cover in regards to BoltBus long ago here in the PNW. They've been using the station in Portland to store buses during layovers for years now. Even more visible us the situation in Vancouver where BoltBus and Greyhound operate side-by-side (much like they do in SF). That's why I wonder why they don't have a logo by the front door that says something like "proudly operated by Greyhound" I think it helps improve the Greyhound image in the eyes of some of the companies most high value passengers without really hurting the BoltBus image.

GLI's Portland terminal serves as both a layover facility for the equipment on the Seattle-based runs and as a driver base for runs out of Portland. There are buses that are assigned to Portland which are swapped out for maintenance on a regular basis in Seattle.

Regarding Vancouver, the current GLI stop was the quickest way in without getting involved with additional permits from the city.

A greater "Greyhound" presence aside from the legals on the bottom of the bus would not mesh well with many Bolt riders. Although many people recognize that it's a part of the company, they're taking Bolt because it's not really Greyhound.

Whenever a Bolt trip is covered by a Greyhound or Peter Pan vehicle in the Northeast, no matter if it's the same type of bus or even newer with better features, it's guaranteed to set off complaints the next day. People pay for the Bolt brand and expect it.

Just my two cents.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

At this point I've given up the thoughts of riding Bolt in the PNW since Greyhound upgraded their equipment and Bolt Rewards don't mix with Greyhound Road Rewards. Plus the Blue G's have far better seats than the X3-45's or D4505's, and more legroom too. Add on the chance of riding a H3-45, and yeah, Greyhound is probably better in the PNW now. Just needs some faster service, maybe, but then again, if they make many stops, I can hop off, stretch my legs, take pictures, and say I've been to that place.

But I might ride Bolt on one segment just to show the X3-45 to my travel buddy.

Shows that Greyhound hate is overblown no matter how problematic their Print at Home Tickets system is.

BTW, White G frenzy spotted in El Paso February 2014: https://www.flickr.com/photos/southerncalifornian/15385155792/in/photolist-prhd1D-prwWNL-ppwLYb.

 

[rickycourtney]

Regarding Vancouver, the current GLI stop was the quickest way in without getting involved with additional permits from the city.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with BoltBus operating side-by-side with Greyhound at Pacific Central Station. It's a great facility and served by several carriers.

A greater "Greyhound" presence aside from the legals on the bottom of the bus would not mesh well with many Bolt riders. Although many people recognize that it's a part of the company, they're taking Bolt because it's not really Greyhound.

Look, you truly are the expert when it comes to BoltBus, so I defer to you.

But from personal experience I would argue that *most* BoltBus customers have no clue it's operated by Greyhound. That's why I argue that adding "Operated by Greyhound" (no like co-branding or anything) could help improve the image of Greyhound in the eyes of the companies high value BoltBus passengers.

That's my two cents, which are probably a lot less valuable than yours.

 

[rickycourtney]

I saw 7191 in Seattle, bound for Los Angeles. Didn't have time to take down the fleet numbers while in Portland.

I don't know why the buses would be switched out in Portland... as long the engine has a partculate filter, the G4500 can run in California.

As far as BoltBus vs Greyhound here in the Pacific Northwest... the difference is time. BoltBus is a much faster trip, but it doesn't sound like that matters much to you.

 

[rickycourtney]

Say, I was looking at various seat specs, and I was wondering what you guys thought about the tables at the rear of motorcoaches? I always thought they would be a bad idea, wasting room for recline. I also remember the old radio modules on Adirondack's National Seating, I bet no one uses it anymore, but they're still listed on some specs. They also have the regular options like tray tables, cup holders, manual and "automatic" footrests, seat backs that match the seat covers or carpeted seat backs, the list goes on and on. I guess winged is preferred over flat or pillow headrests. Really interested in the new National 4210SB10, wonder how it stacks up to Amaya Torino G and A-2TEN.

Amtrak California's new D4505's and their slightly older C2045's have 2 tables in the back and they've been a hit. Families and groups love them and flock to be the first on the bus hoping to grab those seats. On the technical side of things, the seats that face the tables have their reclining mechanisms removed, but the seats are spaced so that the seats in front of them can still recline.
Amtrak California also experimented with "snack trays" on the C2045s. They proved unpopular because they're small and not strong enough to support the weight of an iPad (forget using a laptop). While I haven't heard anything official, I suspect that they elected to not use tray tables because of the expense.

 

[Pink Furred Tiger]

Thanks, Swad. You are a real friend!

 

[Pink Furred Tiger]

Thanks, Swad. You are a real friend!

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I saw 7191 in Seattle, bound for Los Angeles. Didn't have time to take down the fleet numbers while in Portland.

I don't know why the buses would be switched out in Portland... as long the engine has a partculate filter, the G4500 can run in California.

As far as BoltBus vs Greyhound here in the Pacific Northwest... the difference is time. BoltBus is a much faster trip, but it doesn't sound like that matters much to you.

The G4500's were built 2001-2003, they don't have a particulate filter. None of them have been seen in California. Google Maps recently updated their Street Views in many California cities. Complete D4505 domination. Greyhound wouldn't want to install a particular filter if they don't have to, considering the loss of fuel economy. Nobody said a DPF was required in a 2001-2003 Blue G and nobody is forced to run it in California. With all the D4505's in place in Los Angeles, it wouldn't be difficult to switch out the coaches in Portland.

Besides, like Metrolinecoach111 said, coaches rotate through Portland to reach Seattle for maintenance. Though in that case, I can't understand why #7191 would not have gone back to Denver instead. I'm also certain it's a Denver coach.

BoltBus isn't "much faster", Bolt is about 3:15 or 3:30, Greyhound is 4:05. The Blue G seating is much more comfortable than a X3-45, so I don't really care about that 50 minutes. Like I said, I would be on vacation anyway, and I would be earning Road Rewards.

BTW, Greyhound runs the "local" Denver to SLC via US 40 as an express. They list many stops but don't make most of them because US 40 is a two-lane road so the driver just sees if anyone is getting on or of (usually zero people) and passes through without stopping.

Besides, not all Greyhound drivers are created equal. For example, you complained about your driver letting baggage block the aisle, but Kit insisted that it must not block the aisle. Some drivers get you there much faster than others. And the specific bus matter too, older coaches without DPF's, like the Blue G or DL3, drive faster than the newer ones.

Also, those stops give me the chance to "visit" every little town for a few minutes.

Say, I was looking at various seat specs, and I was wondering what you guys thought about the tables at the rear of motorcoaches? I always thought they would be a bad idea, wasting room for recline. I also remember the old radio modules on Adirondack's National Seating, I bet no one uses it anymore, but they're still listed on some specs. They also have the regular options like tray tables, cup holders, manual and "automatic" footrests, seat backs that match the seat covers or carpeted seat backs, the list goes on and on. I guess winged is preferred over flat or pillow headrests. Really interested in the new National 4210SB10, wonder how it stacks up to Amaya Torino G and A-2TEN.

Amtrak California's new D4505's and their slightly older C2045's have 2 tables in the back and they've been a hit. Families and groups love them and flock to be the first on the bus hoping to grab those seats. On the technical side of things, the seats that face the tables have their reclining mechanisms removed, but the seats are spaced so that the seats in front of them can still recline.
Amtrak California also experimented with "snack trays" on the C2045s. They proved unpopular because they're small and not strong enough to support the weight of an iPad (forget using a laptop). While I haven't heard anything official, I suspect that they elected to not use tray tables because of the expense.

Really? I don't understand the popularity of the tables, but oh well, I guess people like to draw and play cards instead of viewing the scenery. Can't understand why Amtrak California's contractors are using such fuel-guzzling equipment as the D4505. BTW, they are currently selling 2007 and 2009 Van Hools. No surprise, they don't last long.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Thanks, Swad. You are a real friend!

No problem. Need help with something?

 

[rickycourtney]

The G4500's were built 2001-2003, they don't have a particulate filter. None of them have been seen in California. Google Maps recently updated their Street Views in many California cities. Complete D4505 domination.

I don't know what the hell you're talking about. The last time I was in Southern California I saw an G4500, X3-45, and the D4505. Plus, a cursory look at street view shows every model in Greyhound's fleet (102DL3, G4500, X3-45, D4505) in the yard.

Greyhound wouldn't want to install a particular filter if they don't have to, considering the loss of fuel economy.

The DPF doesn't have as big of an impact on performance that the EGR system does.

Nobody said a DPF was required in a 2001-2003 Blue G and nobody is forced to run it in California. With all the D4505's in place in Los Angeles, it wouldn't be difficult to switch out the coaches in Portland.

It's required if Greyhound runs them in California, which they still are. Yes, they could switch it out in Portland, but it would be a pain in the ass to make sure those buses never run in California.

Besides, like Metrolinecoach111 said, coaches rotate through Portland to reach Seattle for maintenance. Though in that case, I can't understand why #7191 would not have gone back to Denver instead. I'm also certain it's a Denver coach.

Why wouldn't it be a Seattle based coach?

BoltBus isn't "much faster", Bolt is about 3:15 or 3:30, Greyhound is 4:05. The Blue G seating is much more comfortable than a X3-45, so I don't really care about that 50 minutes. Like I said, I would be on vacation anyway, and I would be earning Road Rewards.

That's why I said "it doesn't sound like that matters much to you."

Those times are what the run is scheduled at, but every trip I've taken on BoltBus has arrived early (due to padding on the schedule) making it more like 3:00 or 3:15. But BoltBus is 20% faster than Greyhound, in my book that's "much faster". But that being said, I've never been on the G4500, but I imagine the seats are more comfortable (they couldn't be much worse).

I guess people like to draw and play cards instead of viewing the scenery.

Bingo.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

That Street View shows a single White G4500 only. See a Blue G4500? What I heard from Greyhound employees was that the Blue G4500 would never operate in California. It is possible they got a waiver to operate a few White G4500s as reserve units from California until all of them could be retired or moved out, which is happening fast, as more White Gs have been seen in Texas already. That waiver on the basis of Greyhound's promise to remove them ASAP, which also explains the lack of Blue Gs.

This other Street View shows a bunch of White G4500s getting parted out at Los Angeles: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0340131,-118.2374595,3a,15y,252.91h,84.69t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s2Arwv75i0ezwdOQ940-IPg!2e0.

#7191 isn't a Seattle-based coach because it's based from Denver. How the heck would a Seattle-based coach end up in Reno? It would have to go from Seattle to Los Angeles, then to San Francisco, then to Reno. Or it would have to go from Seattle to Portland then to Denver then to Reno. Both are highly unlikely. And it can't pass through California anyways, as far as I know.

There's also a row of White DL3's parked across from the G4500s and Viaggios, but they appear to be intact and operational, leading me to believe that they are charter-only units or units for sale.

Edit: Here's another possibility. Greyhound and Americanos both have some late-model G4500's with CAT engines. It's possible these have DPFs, but since CAT engines are so problematic to maintain, Greyhound may have decided not to rebuild them, and thus they will never be Blue G's. I know Greyhound #7229-7244 have CAT engines.

 

[Guest Blue Main Lyon.]

Thanks, Swad. You are a real friend!

No problem. Need help with something?

I told you, Swadian. I would like to keep in touch with you since I am no longer posting on this forum. If this interests you, please personal message me and send me a means with which we could do so.