Governor snubs Amtrak and Stimulus $$$

[Ryan]

Comparing Condi Rice to Sarah Palin is like comparing the TGV to the Cardinal.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I dunno why I brought politics into it, but lets drop them. My mistake, I'm sorry.

 

[volkris]

If you're about to apply for Federal Funding for a project that commits the state to several guarantees, including having to repay that money to the Fed if you don't continue operations for a specified number of years or run X number of trains daily, and you haven't informed your boss the Governor that you are doing that, then that is a failure.

True. But I've not seen a single thing showing that that was happening.

What I've seen is that some people were working on an application. That doesn't mean the application was going to be submitted, that they were on their way to the post office for stamps to submit the application, that they were applying for funding from the legislature, or anything else. They were filling out paperwork in case it would be needed in the future.

So again: all of this is hoopla about some minor government employees working on filling out a form that, in itself, does absolutely nothing. It was pointed out that their work sends a message counter to the non-hypocritical, consistent, and reasoned policy of the administrator, so Jindal clarified. And for that he's called a hypocrite.

It would be hypocritical for Jindal to accept the money while blasting other states for accepting it, or for him to allocate money to rail while lambasting all other rail spending, but he did neither.

I guess you missed that speech where he blasted the rail spending in the Stimulus bill, and in particular the Las Vegas to California train.

Read more carefully: I said "all other rail spending" not rail spending in the stimulus bill. I said that for a reason.

Jindal didn't say it was wrong to spend money on rail--in fact he's said elsewhere that it's an idea worth considering. He said that the stimulus bill was the wrong place for one particular type of funding of rail, and criticized one specific project.

In this case he would be hypocritical if he joined the federal legislature to vote for inclusion of that California rail funding in the stimulus bill. But that's not what he was charged with. He was charged with being willing to accept funding, once it was already allocated and already destined to be spent.

Here in the real world, criticizing the feds for passing out stimulus money while flying around in his helicopter to pass out huge cardboard checks taking credit for the money is the very definition of the word.

Where did I say Jindal wasn't hypocritical for criticizing waste in the federal government while wasting money himself at home? I only said that he wasn't hypocritical for criticizing federal budgeting and then [supposedly] thinking about accepting some already budgeted money.

 

[oldtimer]

That would be a good name for a singing group....."Mike Curb and the Supremes"

Well, Mike Curb is a songwriter and producer - not too far off.

Mike Curb is a little more than a songwriter and producer, he is a major factor in auto racing having sponsored such Nascar drivers as Richard Petty and Dale Earnhart. and also a GOP politician and former Lt. governor of California.

Here is the Wikipedia entry

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Curb

 

[George Harris]

I dunno why I brought politics into it, but lets drop them. My mistake, I'm sorry.

Consider it dropped, at least by me. There are quite a few things in the rail world that are so involved in the political issues, admittedly it is easy to slip over into the politics.

Note to all others: Other political comments that have appears here, I am ignoring.

 

[DET63]

It's hard to keep politics out of the discussion, considering that Amtrak is a federal government-established and -subsidized corporation.

I am concerned about the level of corruption that seems to exist in our government, and how that may affect the quality of our infrastructure. Chicago and many other big cities, as well as Louisiana and other states, have long had a rep for being intensely corrupt. This may be directly related to the quality (or lack thereof) of public transit systems, roads and bridges, airports, and so on in these places.

 

[Donctor]

Chicago and many other big cities, as well as Louisiana and other states, have long had a rep for being intensely corrupt. This may be directly related to the quality (or lack thereof) of public transit systems, roads and bridges, airports, and so on in these places.

They're certainly related in Chicago. We keep getting shitty people appointed to the CTA.

 

[birdy]

What would Huey Long do? He would not only build the rail, he would install an Hitachi Javelin system. 140 mph commuter train.

Huey is reviled as a "demagogue" but he had nothing on the politicians we have now, including Jindal.

Huey never hid his education. He never talked down to people. He never stooped to race-baiting, which was the ticket to political success in the South in those days. He told a lot of downtrodden people many of whom were literally living in the mud, that they were as good as anyone. They believed him, and he proceeded to prove it was true.

He built LSU into an important research university. He gave Louisiana what was at the time a world class health care system. He gave the state a first class transportation system. He did all this during the Great Depression.

It burns me up to see Governor Jindal implicitly buy into the idea that Louisianans aren't good enough for anything first class. Time to get rid of the politicians whose small minds are only exceeded by their small hearts.

 

[George Harris]

Wow Birdy!!

your praise of the Kingfish reminds me of the old joke about a man's funeral:

The wife was hearing the preacher heap praise on the deceased to the point that she whispered to one of her grandchildren:

"Sneak up there and see if that really is your granddaddy in the box."

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Thank you Mr Harris. I need that. :lol:

 

[volkris]

What would Huey Long do? He would not only build the rail, he would install an Hitachi Javelin system. 140 mph commuter train.
Huey is reviled as a "demagogue" but he had nothing on the politicians we have now, including Jindal.

Huey never hid his education. He never talked down to people. He never stooped to race-baiting, which was the ticket to political success in the South in those days. He told a lot of downtrodden people many of whom were literally living in the mud, that they were as good as anyone. They believed him, and he proceeded to prove it was true.

He built LSU into an important research university. He gave Louisiana what was at the time a world class health care system. He gave the state a first class transportation system. He did all this during the Great Depression.

It burns me up to see Governor Jindal implicitly buy into the idea that Louisianans aren't good enough for anything first class. Time to get rid of the politicians whose small minds are only exceeded by their small hearts.

Wow. That's quite the interesting perspective.

Long did nothing BUT talk down to people. He told them they were special, smart, and as good as anyone else... while believing and counting on the fact that they would be too damn stupid to see what he was really doing. He acted as a savior of lesser men, seeking an iron grip on the government that served to tame the savages.

He built LSU into an important research university... for football. Just about everything else there was and remains second rate. The state's transportation system was basically adequate for the time and has become a significant hindrance due to shortsighted planning of the era (fitting with everything else Long left).

If you want to see a governor treating the people fairly, Jindal's head and shoulders above Long. He's being honest with people, pointing out that no, they actually can't have a "first class" rail line between BR and NO because they can't afford it. Long would have told the people they could have it, trusting that they wouldn't be smart enough to do the math and see that they really couldn't, and when the bills came due he would have hung them out to dry, hanging it on personal enemies while profiting both coming and going.

In fact, one could argue that we can't have the train right now because we're STILL CLEANING UP from the mess Long had a part in creating. Certainly Long's not alone in putting Louisiana where it is today, but his policies amounted to a squandering of boom times, pouring money into populist reelection campaigns instead of economic development that would have left the state in a better place now, maybe with an economy able to support rail between metropolises.

I absolutely have problems with Jindal, and I don't think he'd make a good candidate in any national office, but his work on instilling fiscal responsibility in Louisiana government--including telling people 'no' when 'no' is the honest answer--is just what the state needs right now. I hope a few more years will point the state in the right direction, so we can finally claw our way out of the mire left by wrongheaded, self-serving, dishonest, and, most of all, elitist politicians like Long.

 

[AlanB]

If you want to see a governor treating the people fairly, Jindal's head and shoulders above Long. He's being honest with people, pointing out that no, they actually can't have a "first class" rail line between BR and NO because they can't afford it. Long would have told the people they could have it, trusting that they wouldn't be smart enough to do the math and see that they really couldn't, and when the bills came due he would have hung them out to dry, hanging it on personal enemies while profiting both coming and going.

I'm afraid that we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I do agree with everyone that this line is certainly questionable in need, especially compared to so many other more worthy projects, and that the state would have had trouble paying for it. In fact, I rather suspect that barring some political influence pedaling, that the project probably would have been rejected for Federal funding because it's not strong enough.

But, everything that I've seen still points to the fact that Mr. Jindal killed this project for one reason and one alone. He got caught with his hand in the proverbial cookie jar. If that application had stayed out of the hands of some enterprising reporter, it would have been filed with the Fed.

Low level state employees don't waste countless hours filling out paperwork and gathering numbers to apply for Federal funding without their boss knowing about it. And again, I can't imagine that their boss didn't tell the Governor. If he didn't, then Jindal's first move should have been to fire the man.

 

[had8ley]

If you want to see a governor treating the people fairly, Jindal's head and shoulders above Long. He's being honest with people, pointing out that no, they actually can't have a "first class" rail line between BR and NO because they can't afford it. Long would have told the people they could have it, trusting that they wouldn't be smart enough to do the math and see that they really couldn't, and when the bills came due he would have hung them out to dry, hanging it on personal enemies while profiting both coming and going.

I'm afraid that we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I do agree with everyone that this line is certainly questionable in need, especially compared to so many other more worthy projects, and that the state would have had trouble paying for it. In fact, I rather suspect that barring some political influence pedaling, that the project probably would have been rejected for Federal funding because it's not strong enough.

But, everything that I've seen still points to the fact that Mr. Jindal killed this project for one reason and one alone. He got caught with his hand in the proverbial cookie jar. If that application had stayed out of the hands of some enterprising reporter, it would have been filed with the Fed.

Low level state employees don't waste countless hours filling out paperwork and gathering numbers to apply for Federal funding without their boss knowing about it. And again, I can't imagine that their boss didn't tell the Governor. If he didn't, then Jindal's first move should have been to fire the man.

I am obliged to totally agree with Alan. As I posted earlier the very next day's headline in the Baton Rouge Advocate was "Company With Ties to Jindal Gets Contracts." The faces and names change but it's still the same state~ LOUISIANA.

 

[volkris]

Well there's another factor in this as well: there's a claim that the state actually could not have applied for the funding if it wanted to because it simply was not qualified in terms of finding a way to chip in its share. Whether or not Jindal killed it for political reasons, if you believe this it would have been rejected without consideration anyway.

Also, as a person who read the Advocate regularly growing up (and even appeared in it a time or two!) it's not exactly a world class marvel of unbiased reporting. What I've been reading over the past year or so--and I'm the first to admit that I don't read it regularly anymore--is full of factually questionable stories and mischaracterizations of Jindal's statements. The Advocate has always been a paper with that "down home" feel, ready to support pals of the editors and not shy away from editorializing throughout the rag.

 

[had8ley]

Well there's another factor in this as well: there's a claim that the state actually could not have applied for the funding if it wanted to because it simply was not qualified in terms of finding a way to chip in its share. Whether or not Jindal killed it for political reasons, if you believe this it would have been rejected without consideration anyway.
Also, as a person who read the Advocate regularly growing up (and even appeared in it a time or two!) it's not exactly a world class marvel of unbiased reporting. What I've been reading over the past year or so--and I'm the first to admit that I don't read it regularly anymore--is full of factually questionable stories and mischaracterizations of Jindal's statements. The Advocate has always been a paper with that "down home" feel, ready to support pals of the editors and not shy away from editorializing throughout the rag.

I can appreciate your lack of love for the Advocate. It is family owned, along with Channel 2 and the publisher, David Manship, used to be one of my neighbors. However...I can understand your not reading deeply into the local rag but if you had you would have discovered that the parishes that the NOL-BTR service would have served had committed to pony up for a portion of the expenses. It didn't specify any amounts but $$ was put on the table. Besides, I don't think you're going to find an editorial about killing train service in Louisiana in USA Today or the New York Times.

 

[volkris]

Well there's another factor in this as well: there's a claim that the state actually could not have applied for the funding if it wanted to because it simply was not qualified in terms of finding a way to chip in its share. Whether or not Jindal killed it for political reasons, if you believe this it would have been rejected without consideration anyway.
Also, as a person who read the Advocate regularly growing up (and even appeared in it a time or two!) it's not exactly a world class marvel of unbiased reporting. What I've been reading over the past year or so--and I'm the first to admit that I don't read it regularly anymore--is full of factually questionable stories and mischaracterizations of Jindal's statements. The Advocate has always been a paper with that "down home" feel, ready to support pals of the editors and not shy away from editorializing throughout the rag.

I can appreciate your lack of love for the Advocate. It is family owned, along with Channel 2 and the publisher, David Manship, used to be one of my neighbors. However...I can understand your not reading deeply into the local rag but if you had you would have discovered that the parishes that the NOL-BTR service would have served had committed to pony up for a portion of the expenses. It didn't specify any amounts but $$ was put on the table. Besides, I don't think you're going to find an editorial about killing train service in Louisiana in USA Today or the New York Times.

As I said before, I know a lot that goes on inside of those parishes because I have relatives working in many of them... and they're broke! Many of them can't even cover the expenses that they've already committed to over the next decade or so, much less ponying up new money for this service. Jindal (and, I'd hope, many other people) know this. To give them the benefit of the doubt, these parishes were hit by the influx of people moving away from New Orleans and accelerated pace of people moving from Baton Rouge. They understandably had trouble shifting gears quickly, and now they're in trouble.

And as you said, they committed to a portion of the expenses. From what I understand the federal application was looking to see a commitment and plan for the entire state's contribution, not just some of it. That sounds like a reasonable requirement to me, as a first pass narrowing down the huge number of requests for the money, so I don't doubt it.

Honestly I have trouble researching this issue because search engines are absolutely choked with blogs and news reports all citing each other and painting Jindal as a hypocrite, as opposed to citing primary sources or presenting new information.

 

[had8ley]

Honestly I have trouble researching this issue because search engines are absolutely choked with blogs and news reports all citing each other and painting Jindal as a hypocrite, as opposed to citing primary sources or presenting new information.

Jindal went into office crying "transparency" then had bills passed that threw mud onto every window that the state capital has. This is Louisiana; there is NO other state that even comes close to political monkey business than here. Amtrak isn't anywhere near as good at last minute surprises that take place here.