Future of 'regional' services

[stonesfan]

Hi folks

Am planning another bash on the NEC in a couple of months time when I visit. Out of interest, what does the future hold for the current Amfleets and AEM-7/HP8 locomotives that currently operate the regional services?

I actually quite like the old Amfleets. Remind me of how Intercity travel used to be in the UK!

Cheers

 

[TVRM610]

Personally I'm not a fan of the amfleet cars... the idea that train cars should have small windows is crazy to me, the only thing worse if they are tinted green like on the metra in chicago... or if the cars get wrapped (shudders).

However... they are quite comfortable, and they look cool enough.

 

[MattW]

Well, Amtraks equipment plan calls for 3 equipment types: Superliner, Viewliner, and High Speed (Acela II?) so unless something changes, or they go all-high-speed, it'll be sets of Viewliners roaming the NEC. I gotta say though, the shape of the Viewliner doesn't lend itself to thinking about high speed with its trapezoidal frame

 

[the_traveler]

Well, Amtraks equipment plan calls for 3 equipment types: Superliner, Viewliner, and High Speed (Acela II?)

Unless they build other types of Viewliner cars, I doubt they will be used on the NEC! Viewliners (right now) are only sleepers! There are no Viewliner coaches!

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

Well, Amtraks equipment plan calls for 3 equipment types: Superliner, Viewliner, and High Speed (Acela II?) so unless something changes, or they go all-high-speed, it'll be sets of Viewliners roaming the NEC. I gotta say though, the shape of the Viewliner doesn't lend itself to thinking about high speed with its trapezoidal frame

Personally I really don't like the viewliners, never really liked the two sets of windows. Plus I prefer the superliner roomettes anyway.

Also I have never seen the problem with Amfleet that some people seem to have.

 

[haolerider]

Well, Amtraks equipment plan calls for 3 equipment types: Superliner, Viewliner, and High Speed (Acela II?) so unless something changes, or they go all-high-speed, it'll be sets of Viewliners roaming the NEC. I gotta say though, the shape of the Viewliner doesn't lend itself to thinking about high speed with its trapezoidal frame

Personally I really don't like the viewliners, never really liked the two sets of windows. Plus I prefer the superliner roomettes anyway.

Also I have never seen the problem with Amfleet that some people seem to have.

I think you are in the minority with your preference for Superliner roomettes over the Viewliner. Most passengers seem to prefer the two windows, especially if you are in the upper bunk. There is nothing like watching a full moon as you travel through the night! The upper in the Superliner is confining and quite difficult to get into for most people. What is it that you like about the Superliner? Just curious.

 

[stonesfan]

Personally I'm not a fan of the amfleet cars... the idea that train cars should have small windows is crazy to me, the only thing worse if they are tinted green like on the metra in chicago... or if the cars get wrapped (shudders).
However... they are quite comfortable, and they look cool enough.

Arent viewliners and superliners totally unsuited to the kinds of speed that regionals can reach? ie 125mph. My guess is yet another refurb and 10 yr life extension for the Amfleets?

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

Well, Amtraks equipment plan calls for 3 equipment types: Superliner, Viewliner, and High Speed (Acela II?) so unless something changes, or they go all-high-speed, it'll be sets of Viewliners roaming the NEC. I gotta say though, the shape of the Viewliner doesn't lend itself to thinking about high speed with its trapezoidal frame

Personally I really don't like the viewliners, never really liked the two sets of windows. Plus I prefer the superliner roomettes anyway.

Also I have never seen the problem with Amfleet that some people seem to have.

I think you are in the minority with your preference for Superliner roomettes over the Viewliner. Most passengers seem to prefer the two windows, especially if you are in the upper bunk. There is nothing like watching a full moon as you travel through the night! The upper in the Superliner is confining and quite difficult to get into for most people. What is it that you like about the Superliner? Just curious.

The main thing I don't like about the viewliners is the bathroom in the roomette. It just seems really awkward at night and awkward in general. I don't know it just seems like having a toilet in the middle of your living room.

As for my preference of superliners over viewliners I don't really know why I just always have.

 

[battalion51]

I'll definitely agree that the toilet is an oddity, especially if you're traveling with a parent, friend, etc. Really any situation other than solo. :lol: I don't think you're likely to see a Viewliner shell running as the new fleet for the NEC though. Unless they make changes to the structural integrity and configuration it won't happen. They're not going to lose 15 MPH on every train because of a common shell. In all likelihood none of us know what the new cars will likely look like, because a new design will probably be dreamed up. In all reality the design of the Amfleets isn't too bad except for the size of the windows. If you can put in larger windows, why not just go with the same design?

 

[jis]

The main thing I don't like about the viewliners is the bathroom in the roomette. It just seems really awkward at night and awkward in general. I don't know it just seems like having a toilet in the middle of your living room.

There will be no toilets in the roomettes in the new Viewliners. instead there will be two toilets for use by the roomette passengers at one end of the car. This is based on customer preference feedback that Amtrak has received. It also reduces maintenance cost of the cars significantly.

 

[AlanB]

The main thing I don't like about the viewliners is the bathroom in the roomette. It just seems really awkward at night and awkward in general. I don't know it just seems like having a toilet in the middle of your living room.

There will be no toilets in the roomettes in the new Viewliners. instead there will be two toilets for use by the roomette passengers at one end of the car. This is based on customer preference feedback that Amtrak has received. It also reduces maintenance cost of the cars significantly.

It'll probably also help cut down of freeze issues too, with fewer pipes to worry about.

 

[JayPea]

My one and only experience on a Viewliner was last summer on the Crescent, New Orleans-Washington DC. I always did march at a 45 degree angle to most of the rest of the world :lol: but I like the Superliners better, at least for two people. Solo, I could well see where the Viewliner is better. But for two people, I didn't like the Viewliner as well. I like the idea of being able to store luggage downstairs rather that try to cram a couple of suitcases in the small cubbyhole. Nor do I like the toilet in the room. I got to where I'd go to the coaches to use their bathrooms. There are just some things best done in private!

 

[nferr]

My one and only experience on a Viewliner was last summer on the Crescent, New Orleans-Washington DC. I always did march at a 45 degree angle to most of the rest of the world :lol: but I like the Superliners better, at least for two people. Solo, I could well see where the Viewliner is better. But for two people, I didn't like the Viewliner as well. I like the idea of being able to store luggage downstairs rather that try to cram a couple of suitcases in the small cubbyhole. Nor do I like the toilet in the room. I got to where I'd go to the coaches to use their bathrooms. There are just some things best done in private!

Not me. The toilets in the coaches are barely a step above those in your typical dirty gas station. They're awful after about a half day of use. The Viewliner toilets are perfect for if you're traveling solo. Yes it's a problem if two are using the room. The other person just has to leave the room for a few minutes. I think they should leave the toilets and just add a public one somewhere in the car.

 

[battalion51]

I've always found that the Lounge toilets to be in the most decent shape of the public toilets. Most people don't know that they exist, and are never close enough to it that it's the closest one to them.

 

[JayPea]

My one and only experience on a Viewliner was last summer on the Crescent, New Orleans-Washington DC. I always did march at a 45 degree angle to most of the rest of the world :lol: but I like the Superliners better, at least for two people. Solo, I could well see where the Viewliner is better. But for two people, I didn't like the Viewliner as well. I like the idea of being able to store luggage downstairs rather that try to cram a couple of suitcases in the small cubbyhole. Nor do I like the toilet in the room. I got to where I'd go to the coaches to use their bathrooms. There are just some things best done in private!

Not me. The toilets in the coaches are barely a step above those in your typical dirty gas station. They're awful after about a half day of use. The Viewliner toilets are perfect for if you're traveling solo. Yes it's a problem if two are using the room. The other person just has to leave the room for a few minutes. I think they should leave the toilets and just add a public one somewhere in the car.

I used to work at a gas station and I resemble your remark!!!! :lol: Actually the one I used in the coach was kept clean. Maybe a rarity but it was nice and clean.

 

[George Harris]

I gotta say though, the shape of the Viewliner doesn't lend itself to thinking about high speed with its trapezoidal frame

And the logic behind this is?????

I really do not see how the shape in cross section of the vehicle is a speed limiting factor.

The suspension set up can be, but that can be fixed or changed out.

Nothing about the superliner shape should make 125 mph impossible for them, either. If someone knows more about this than I do, feel free to say so, and why it is so.

 

[afigg]

Arent viewliners and superliners totally unsuited to the kinds of speed that regionals can reach? ie 125mph. My guess is yet another refurb and 10 yr life extension for the Amfleets?

It was stated by a number of posters in the threads last year on the Viewliner II request for bids that the Viewliner IIs would be required to be capable of 125 mph speed. Then once the Viewliner IIs started being delivered, the plan was to upgrade the Viewliner I sleepers to 125 mph max speed capability. The main motivation is have the LD trains be able to operate at 125 mph on the NEC to match the Regional speeds to simplify operations and traffic flow.

The planned 130 car Viewliner II order is for baggage, baggage-dorm, diner, and sleeper cars. Amtrak has to get the funding for this order and the electric locomotive replacements in place first before they can get serious about follow-on orders to start replacing the Amfleets (or better, expanding capacity as the Amfleets are slowly retired). Amtrak has submitted a supplemental $446 million request for FY11 funding for the equipment orders, but Congress has to provide the funding in bills which are likely not to be passed until after the November elections.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I'll definitely agree that the toilet is an oddity, especially if you're traveling with a parent, friend, etc. Really any situation other than solo. :lol: I don't think you're likely to see a Viewliner shell running as the new fleet for the NEC though. Unless they make changes to the structural integrity and configuration it won't happen. They're not going to lose 15 MPH on every train because of a common shell. In all likelihood none of us know what the new cars will likely look like, because a new design will probably be dreamed up. In all reality the design of the Amfleets isn't too bad except for the size of the windows. If you can put in larger windows, why not just go with the same design?

There is nothing limiting the Viewliners speed except for the trucks. There is simply no reason to maintain Viewliner equipment to speeds higher than 110, because that's what the Heritage cars they run with are limited to. From what I understand, the new series of "conventional" equipment will be Viewliner shelled, LD with one Vestibule as: Baggage, Baggage-Dorm, Diner, Sleeper, coach, and lounge, and two-vestibule SD in coach, food service, and business class. With 125 speed rated trucks.

As for the "structural integrity of the trapezoidal shape", I assume you are talking about the structural integrity of the Viewliner, rather than the OTHER trapezoidal Amtrak car, the Acela?

Lastly, the Surfliners and California cars are rated for 125 already, with two door openings. A 125-mph, 1-door Superliner would not be impossible, or even difficult. In fact, I can't think of a reason why the existing Superliners could not be upgraded.

I've always found that the Lounge toilets to be in the most decent shape of the public toilets. Most people don't know that they exist, and are never close enough to it that it's the closest one to them.

I, personally, have NEVER seen a Diner-Lite configuration car with an unlocked bathroom. Some are locked, others just don't have them.

 

[VT Hokie]

Nothing about the superliner shape should make 125 mph impossible for them, either. If someone knows more about this than I do, feel free to say so, and why it is so.

The Alstom Pacific Surfliner coaches have a design speed of 125 mph, so it is certainly possible. The Surfliner cars of course have the same exterior dimensions as the Superliners.

 

[dlagrua]

Can't speak for other regionals but the NE Corridor regional in the last few years has experienced explosive growth. Most seats are often taken and some trains are entirely sold out, including the high priced Acela. I read that Amtrak has 60% of the passenger traffic on the NE corridor and that the airlines split the remaining 40%. This is because on regional runs, the train is faster and more efficient, plus you don't have to be subjected to the degrading and dehumanizing security searches done by rude and sleezy people with a third grade education.

 

[Chris J.]

I'm not a fan of the in-roomette toilet in the Viewliners; and I've never found the Superliner sleeper toilets to be too bad.

If they ever got Viewliner coach cars they would free up the Amfleets to NEC corridor duties. The smaller windows is probably less of an issue for the regionals; commuters care less about the views (and if you want big windows you can always fork out for Acela). The only flaw in this argument is that if they ever actually get around to getting Viewliner Coaches the Amfleets will be past it.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

My understanding is that their will be two basic Viewliner shells. One will be for long-distance trains with twin-windows, and a single vestibule with manual exterior doors.

That category includes:

1) Baggage car for used on bi-level trains.

2) Baggage-Dorm for use on LD trains serving New York.

3) 56-seat coach with a large ADA accessible Bathroom/lounge, two smaller regular bathrooms, footrest/legrest seats, space for a wheelchair, and a large end luggage rack.

4) 48-seat dining cars with real kitchens

5) A buffet-lounge with a snack bar at one end with (suspend your disbelief!) room allocated for long lines and booth seating. The car may include wrap-around upper windows, but likely will not.

6) An 11-roomette, 2 bedroom, 1 Accesible Bedroom sleeper with an attendants room, 2 communal bathrooms, and a shower.

The second will be for short-distance corridor service, with two vestibules with automatic doors and a single-row of larger windows. That will include:

1) A 50-seat cab-car with 2 ADA bathrooms, space for several wheelchairs, and a wheel chair access point next to the cab.

2) A 74-seat coach with 2 regular bathrooms, no end luggage racks.

3) A 70-seat coach with ADA space and 1 ADA and 1 Regular bathroom, ditto.

4) A 60-seat business class coach.

5) An 18-seat 2+1 business/snackbar/24 booth seats car.

6) A 50-seat all-table food-service car with snack bar at one end and space for a line to form.

 

[MattW]

Hrm, I need to retract my previous statement denouncing Viewliners as a high-speed car. I ran a consist of 9 behind an AEM-7 in Train Simulator, and I must say, they didn't look bad.