Forest Hills station fire issues

[Guest]

Seems like Amtrak is still working on the problem at Forest Hills stations with delays on the northeastern corridor.

a: Amtrak underfunded replacements of old electrical equipment on the tracks for signals. The vault looks like a very old signal system in that part and it looks to me like replacement work should have already been scheduled for it to modernize up to modern code and standard. I realize outside equipment can have lightning issues but better designs mean swapped components are easier and delays wont last more than a few hours till it is repaird.

B: Amtrak is saying it will take months to fix it. By looking at what was damaged it appears to be basic electrical engineering work and Amtrak should be able to moderize and replace it in a short period of time.

I don't know why Amtrak is dragging their feet on signal electronics while doing good in other aspects like tracks and new locomotives. Also slowness in areas like replacement of escalators and elevators at stations though on the other hand they are in the process of building out new stations but the lead times on those seem quite long.

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak doesn't actually own the tracks in question. Those tracks belong to the MBTA; Amtrak only has a contract to maintain things and dispatch the trains on the line.

So that may have something to do with how things are getting done. Plus of course, one can't shut down thing entirely to replace bad/aged equipment. It has to be replaced in such a way that you don't disrupt the current service any more than necessary and that tends to slow down how fast things get done.

 

[Guest]

MBTA says it will be fixed in a few days and Amtrak was saying it would take months according to the news article. Trains are working on the route but with 30 minute delays apparently.

I know with Amtrak you have multiple parties responsible, but hopefully in the future cost efficiencies and new technologies can make a better system.

 

[RRCOMM]

The signal system in that area is fairly modern and very complex. Repairing a railroad signal and communications system that has been hit by lightning and exposed to fire is not the same as repairing an automotive traffic light system after an accident.

Just to give you an idea, the communications system is fiber optic and wayside to train data radio based, the signal system is three mainline tracks with bidirectional signalling and the Needham branch. The basic system is overlayed with continuous cab signalling and the Amtrak's Advanced Civil Speed Enforcement System (ACSES).

There is also the 25,000 volt electrification power system to contend with.

The railroad makes a great target for lightning, I have seen hits not too far from that location that literally blew the covers off the cabinets in the CIH (Combined Instrument House).

Whatever damaged that occured was probably worsened when the signal power system started to burn cables in the ducts or houses.

When you have this kind of damage, every single wire in the cables have to be tested and certified for use, bad cables have to be pulled out, new ones installed and tested. All defective equipment has to be replaced and programmed, then all functions have to be checked for reliability.

The number one thing on a signal designer or maintainers mind is this: the only kind of system failure allowed is a Fail Safe one.

All while still trying to get a couple of hundred trains a day past with minimum delay.

As far as "new technology" being a solution to all problems, some of the newer systems seem to be more susceptible to environmental damage than the older stuff.

Hope this helps.

 

[Guest]

The signal system in that area is fairly modern and very complex. Repairing a railroad signal and communications system that has been hit by lightning and exposed to fire is not the same as repairing an automotive traffic light system after an accident.

Just to give you an idea, the communications system is fiber optic and wayside to train data radio based, the signal system is three mainline tracks with bidirectional signalling and the Needham branch. The basic system is overlayed with continuous cab signalling and the Amtrak's Advanced Civil Speed Enforcement System (ACSES).

There is also the 25,000 volt electrification power system to contend with.

The railroad makes a great target for lightning, I have seen hits not too far from that location that literally blew the covers off the cabinets in the CIH (Combined Instrument House).

Whatever damaged that occured was probably worsened when the signal power system started to burn cables in the ducts or houses.

When you have this kind of damage, every single wire in the cables have to be tested and certified for use, bad cables have to be pulled out, new ones installed and tested. All defective equipment has to be replaced and programmed, then all functions have to be checked for reliability.

The number one thing on a signal designer or maintainers mind is this: the only kind of system failure allowed is a Fail Safe one.

All while still trying to get a couple of hundred trains a day past with minimum delay.

As far as "new technology" being a solution to all problems, some of the newer systems seem to be more susceptible to environmental damage than the older stuff.

Hope this helps.

The FAA had a mad man cause a fire at a critical facility which damaged the system for awhile but it did get repaired. With Amtrak the system is functioning but delayed and MBTA is bypassing a station due to the issue right now.

In the scheme of things it looks like issue will get better after time and repairs are still getting done.

 

[KmH]

Wow. It would be nice if Amtrak had a budget anywhere near as big as the budget FAA has.

 

[jis]

Yeah but also remember that FAA has way more Enroute Centers (the sort of place where the fire was), which have much broader impact than a trackside control cabinet, than Amtrak has centralized control centers. And beyond that they have Tracons and of course the zillion airport towers too.