Food Prices

[tp49]

You must not have been around here very long. AU has a long and vaunted history of topics meandering in different directions. It'll get back to the actual topic of the thread...eventually. If the mods have an issue with it they'll steer things back in the right direction.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Our threads have loads of sidings and branch lines . but like on a nice detour we get on the main line again .

heck some days we run over frogs. some threads split points but Our M.O.W. Mods fix things faster then a a BSNF crew on 20 cups of coffee.

( pardon the bad puns)

 

[NW cannonball]

Our threads have loads of sidings and branch lines . but like on a nice detour we get on the main line again .

heck some days we run over frogs. some threads split points but Our M.O.W. Mods fix things faster then a a BSNF crew on 20 cups of coffee.

( pardon the bad puns)

Amen bro

I like bad puns ! !

Anyhow, expect that on-train food and drink will be -- like Stadium or Airline or -- 3-7 times local prices. That's how it is, unlikely to change -- envy the sausage-sellers at the Globe when Shakes was there

 

[rrdude]

Only anecdotal, but we have ALWAYS stopped at the Subway on the way to the main gate at WDW, and got our lunch. (This was after my near heart attack about 15 years ago buying lunch in the park for 2 afults and my 5 kids, I think it maxed out my CC)

Post 9-11, all of the staff searching the backpacks, diaper bags, etc., never said word one about the mass of wrapped subs.

Of course, it could well be a policy enforcement issue.

Do I think AmCafe prices are "Too High"? Hmmm, marginally at best, but not really. $5 for a deck of playing cards? Are you kidding me? On what planet is that expensive? Look I'm a skin-flint cheap-ass-*******-miser, but $5 for a deck of logo'ed cards, available while you are on the train, seems very, very fair.

Can you get a deck of cards cheaper? Why yes, you can at Walmart, Target, DollarStore, et all. But while on the train, you aren't AT those places, so $5 seems very fair. Tell you what, come to the Gathering, I'll give you a deck of cards, I have a couple, and usually travel alone anyway.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The whole cheap/expensive scale can vary greatly based on your age and income. Many of my spontaneous purchases today would have seemed absurdly expensive when I was younger. These days I'd struggle to tell you what any given item costs at the grocery store, and in many cases I don't even bother to look, but when I was a young adult you better believe I could tell you what every single item cost down to the very last penny.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Excellent post Chris, but another point is that once you reach Retirement age and start living on a fixed income, one returns to those days when prices really mattered!

I'm @ that point now, as are many other AU members that are either young, struggling to live on an ever decreasing real dollar salary or retired like me! ( not including our wealthy Florida retirees! LOL)

That being said, my biggest complaint with the Amcrap served in the Cafes is not the prices per se, but the poor quality and limited selection of the products available @ the prices charged!

Comparing Am food to airlines is not the same thing, unless flying overseas one is only on an airplane for a few hours, not on a train for a day or two with the same poor quality food over and over! It would be comparable to eating every meal @ Mickey D's,Burger Queen or Taco Hell every day! ( but of course the prices are cheaper there!)

 

[Triley]

Excellent post Chris, but another point is that once you reach Retirement age and start living on a fixed income, one returns to those days when prices really mattered!

I'm @ that point now, as are many other AU members that are either young, struggling to live on an ever decreasing real dollar salary or retired like me! ( not including our wealthy Florida retirees! LOL)

That being said, my biggest complaint with the Amcrap served in the Cafes is not the prices per se, but the poor quality and limited selection of the products available @ the prices charged!

Comparing Am food to airlines is not the same thing, unless flying overseas one is only on an airplane for a few hours, not on a train for a day or two with the same poor quality food over and over! It would be comparable to eating every meal @ Mickey D's,Burger Queen or Taco Hell every day! ( but of course the prices are cheaper there!)

You need to remember that the food on long hauls needs to be able to stay good for longer amounts of time due to the duration of the trip, and little/no ability to restock fresh food enroute. On the Corridor we have fresh sandwiches, bagels, salads, fruit cups, veggie dips, etc., that are delivered on an almost daily basis to all three commissaries. I guarantee that the selection and quality of food I sell is better than you'd find on a Cafe on any long haul because of it.

 

[Triley]

Trust me, there are some trains where I will have a line for hours, and simply can't handle any more business.

And I'm not calling you a liar, but I doubt the prices you quote ate accurate. On the NEC... Chips are $2.25, soda is $2.25, and the hot dog is $4.75, for a total of $9.25. And our prices are slightly higher than some other trains. Not sure about compared to the Wolverine, but think about it... You said a hot dog was almost $5, but chips and a soda came to almost $6? Even that would come to $11, not the almost $13. It just doesn't add up!

The national prices for the cafe car menu are available on the Amtrak website: Cafe Menu dated May 2015. The hot dogs are now at $5, the soda still $2.25, the chips $2.25. So the total would have been $9.50 on a NE Regional. The Wolverine as a state supported service might have higher prices, but if the hot dog was $5, the soda and chips would presumably be the same price as the national menu as well.

I was on my phone when I made that post, so did not bother with the hassle of loading the menu. But that being said, the prices in the NER Cafe and Acela Cafe are different. You ask me a price of any item on my menu and I can tell you from memory, as I should. The hot dogs are still $4.75. It does appear that the national menu has had the price changes go in affect already, while ours' is coming later this month or next month (that I don't rememeber). Even so, prices for different items vary widely depending on the route, as you pointed out is possible. For example, nips on the national menu are $7, on the Corridor they're $8, and they've been like that since December.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Triley: Good point from one who works where the steel wheels meet the rails, however I still maintain that the State Supported trains, especially the Downeaster and the California trains, do it better! Amtrak can do lots better in the cafes and the Diners in spite of the Micas of the political world!

Perhaps hiring a professional Food and Beverage Executive to oversee and overhaul the offerings and operations of the Diners and Cafes would be in order, instead of just having some suit that's worked at Amtrak X number of years and has an MBA!!

 

[Lonestar648]

Typically, breakfast is the most profitable service a restaurant has, but is the least pp revenue. With the opportunity for greater profit, why not extend the Breakfast service into Lunch, in an attempt to get more Coach passengers into the DC. Now I realize that the Cook would have a more complicated Lunch service, but with most meals already prepared, it shouldn't be that complicated. The idea is to find more profitable revenue in the DC and Café, while realizing Amtrak's first priority is providing a service to the general public. Congress expects Amtrak and the Post Office to be profitable while still providing the service, and little or no capital support.

 

[rrdude]

Jim, of all the faults I can find in Amtrak's management, and business decisions, and there are a "few", I cannot fault them for not hiring the right F & B personnel. However, these people too are hamstrung, with both hands tied behind their back, in being able to do their job, based on budgetary constraints.

 

[DryCreek]

We are really diverging from the topic of the thread guys. I understand you have problems/arguments about Disney, but that is not for this thread. This thread is to talk about food prices on the trains. Sorry if I am sounding bossy or something but yeah...

anyways,

In all honesty they could charge even more and I would still buy some food there because I honestly like the fact that I'm eating on the train and enjoying the lounge. I can't stay in the coach seats (even though I should, I'm restless all the time)

Actually, I think that we were trying to perform comparisons in pricing with venues having a captive clientele. Some venues create captive patrons through rules (ballparks, other places where no outside food allowed, Disneyland), and others are created by geography or the nature of the event (trains, remote resorts, Disney World).

So, to get to actual pricing, here are some examples I dug up:

One entree it seems all places have in common is the half baked/barbecued chicken with two sides.

From the Texas Eagle Menu - the herb roasted chicken half is $16.50

From WDW's Cosmic Ray's Starlight Lounge Menu (also available at Flame Tree) - $10.99

From Monsters Cafe Menu in Universal Studios Orlando - $10.99

NOTE - I agree that I am comparing a counter-service establishment to a full-service setting; but, given the choice to save $6, would you walk up and order the meal and carry it to your table? The argument about having real plates and a tablecloth are no longer valid. You do get real flatware on Amtrak though.

I can also find similar comparisons to many of the other TE menu items - with one exception. To get a steak or something similar, you have to go to a full-service restaurant. Now, if you have a hankerin' for a burger at a table service restaurant, then Amtrak menus have slightly better price points, but with a much smaller selection. For example, let's take a look at the menu for the Plaza Restaurant on Main Street (very nice, I've only eaten there once). MENU Their burgers are a few dollars more.

Now, at Universal Studios, they have a fan-tabulous place (table service) called Finnegan's Bar and Grill. Here is their MENU - I can attest to their food quality being somewhat (OK, quite a bit) better than what we experienced on Amtrak. Compare their menu offerings and their prices. Oh, and you get real plates along with the flatware.

So, I am trying to make the point that saying Amtrak meal offerings are reasonably priced in comparison to theme parks may not be actually true. I love theme parks, and I love to eat - but I am still a tightwad by nature. I know that the prices charged inside a theme park are higher than surrounding venues, but that is the price of convenience. It is a cost that has to be weighed by each individual. You can take the time to leave the park, find your car, drive to wherever, drive back and walk back to the park - or eat just there. For Disney and Universal Orlando, you can purchase meal plans in conjunction with your lodging. Just like booking a sleeper. Again, it reduces the cost of both (a little) and makes a convenient bundled pricing structure.

For west coast comparison, here is the MENU for a Disneyland cafe we love - the Carnation Cafe. Please take a look at it and compare to the TE/SL or whatever menu offerings and price. Oh, and that is a table-service venue for direct comparison.

Honestly, I think that Amtrak can do better. I may be jaded because my son works at an upscale resort and he has worked in both the Food & Beverage side and is now in the hospitality side. I have seen what a little care and planning can produce - granted it is a much smaller scale than the thousands served daily by Amtrak. I agree with someone else's hypothesis that they need to get a real F&B whiz in there to shake things up instead of promoting some bureaucrat from within!

Now, does anyone else have some more examples of captive-patron food pricing? I'd love to see the comparison. Some have mentioned ballparks, but I refuse to go to any professional sporting event* since their prices have skyrocketed over the last 25 years. Do the ballparks even have anything that compares to what you'd get at a theme park dining venue?

* - OK, I lied - I do attend the local rodeos in our surrounding counties, and I am a banner sponsor for one or two.

 

[seat38a]

We are really diverging from the topic of the thread guys. I understand you have problems/arguments about Disney, but that is not for this thread. This thread is to talk about food prices on the trains. Sorry if I am sounding bossy or something but yeah...

anyways,

In all honesty they could charge even more and I would still buy some food there because I honestly like the fact that I'm eating on the train and enjoying the lounge. I can't stay in the coach seats (even though I should, I'm restless all the time)

Actually, I think that we were trying to perform comparisons in pricing with venues having a captive clientele. Some venues create captive patrons through rules (ballparks, other places where no outside food allowed, Disneyland), and others are created by geography or the nature of the event (trains, remote resorts, Disney World).

So, to get to actual pricing, here are some examples I dug up:

One entree it seems all places have in common is the half baked/barbecued chicken with two sides.

From the Texas Eagle Menu - the herb roasted chicken half is $16.50

From WDW's Cosmic Ray's Starlight Lounge Menu (also available at Flame Tree) - $10.99

From Monsters Cafe Menu in Universal Studios Orlando - $10.99

NOTE - I agree that I am comparing a counter-service establishment to a full-service setting; but, given the choice to save $6, would you walk up and order the meal and carry it to your table? The argument about having real plates and a tablecloth are no longer valid. You do get real flatware on Amtrak though.

I can also find similar comparisons to many of the other TE menu items - with one exception. To get a steak or something similar, you have to go to a full-service restaurant. Now, if you have a hankerin' for a burger at a table service restaurant, then Amtrak menus have slightly better price points, but with a much smaller selection. For example, let's take a look at the menu for the Plaza Restaurant on Main Street (very nice, I've only eaten there once). MENU Their burgers are a few dollars more.

Now, at Universal Studios, they have a fan-tabulous place (table service) called Finnegan's Bar and Grill. Here is their MENU - I can attest to their food quality being somewhat (OK, quite a bit) better than what we experienced on Amtrak. Compare their menu offerings and their prices. Oh, and you get real plates along with the flatware.

So, I am trying to make the point that saying Amtrak meal offerings are reasonably priced in comparison to theme parks may not be actually true. I love theme parks, and I love to eat - but I am still a tightwad by nature. I know that the prices charged inside a theme park are higher than surrounding venues, but that is the price of convenience. It is a cost that has to be weighed by each individual. You can take the time to leave the park, find your car, drive to wherever, drive back and walk back to the park - or eat just there. For Disney and Universal Orlando, you can purchase meal plans in conjunction with your lodging. Just like booking a sleeper. Again, it reduces the cost of both (a little) and makes a convenient bundled pricing structure.

For west coast comparison, here is the MENU for a Disneyland cafe we love - the Carnation Cafe. Please take a look at it and compare to the TE/SL or whatever menu offerings and price. Oh, and that is a table-service venue for direct comparison.

Honestly, I think that Amtrak can do better. I may be jaded because my son works at an upscale resort and he has worked in both the Food & Beverage side and is now in the hospitality side. I have seen what a little care and planning can produce - granted it is a much smaller scale than the thousands served daily by Amtrak. I agree with someone else's hypothesis that they need to get a real F&B whiz in there to shake things up instead of promoting some bureaucrat from within!

Now, does anyone else have some more examples of captive-patron food pricing? I'd love to see the comparison. Some have mentioned ballparks, but I refuse to go to any professional sporting event* since their prices have skyrocketed over the last 25 years. Do the ballparks even have anything that compares to what you'd get at a theme park dining venue?

* - OK, I lied - I do attend the local rodeos in our surrounding counties, and I am a banner sponsor for one or two.

Cruise ships. Your bar tab when you get off will be about 3 times the price you paid to get on.

 

[neroden]

You need to remember that the food on long hauls needs to be able to stay good for longer amounts of time due to the duration of the trip, and little/no ability to restock fresh food enroute. On the Corridor we have fresh sandwiches, bagels, salads, fruit cups, veggie dips, etc., that are delivered on an almost daily basis to all three commissaries. I guarantee that the selection and quality of food I sell is better than you'd find on a Cafe on any long haul because of it.

In that case, Amtrak should be able to do that on the Empire Service, Virginia Regionals, Carolinian... and therefore also on the Silver Service, Crescent, and Lake Shore Limited. There's no excuse for the low quality of the national cafe menu east of Chicago.

 

[NW cannonball]

Sorry not to post this earlier, but food "near or in station" may be suspect.

The Globe reported https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/25/foodinspections/4tSbujB5qTGH8uo3Q8uJAJ/story.html

Two of the top three (bottom three) food providers in Boston, according to food safety inspectors, were doing business in South Station.

Many many food safety violations.

They may have been shut down by now.

But if you have strong guts, no worries.

 

[rrdude]

We are really diverging from the topic of the thread guys. I understand you have problems/arguments about Disney, but that is not for this thread. This thread is to talk about food prices on the trains. Sorry if I am sounding bossy or something but yeah...

anyways,

In all honesty they could charge even more and I would still buy some food there because I honestly like the fact that I'm eating on the train and enjoying the lounge. I can't stay in the coach seats (even though I should, I'm restless all the time)

Actually, I think that we were trying to perform comparisons in pricing with venues having a captive clientele. Some venues create captive patrons through rules (ballparks, other places where no outside food allowed, Disneyland), and others are created by geography or the nature of the event (trains, remote resorts, Disney World).

So, to get to actual pricing, here are some examples I dug up:

One entree it seems all places have in common is the half baked/barbecued chicken with two sides.

From the Texas Eagle Menu - the herb roasted chicken half is $16.50

From WDW's Cosmic Ray's Starlight Lounge Menu (also available at Flame Tree) - $10.99

From Monsters Cafe Menu in Universal Studios Orlando - $10.99

NOTE - I agree that I am comparing a counter-service establishment to a full-service setting; but, given the choice to save $6, would you walk up and order the meal and carry it to your table? The argument about having real plates and a tablecloth are no longer valid. You do get real flatware on Amtrak though.

I can also find similar comparisons to many of the other TE menu items - with one exception. To get a steak or something similar, you have to go to a full-service restaurant. Now, if you have a hankerin' for a burger at a table service restaurant, then Amtrak menus have slightly better price points, but with a much smaller selection. For example, let's take a look at the menu for the Plaza Restaurant on Main Street (very nice, I've only eaten there once). MENU Their burgers are a few dollars more.

Now, at Universal Studios, they have a fan-tabulous place (table service) called Finnegan's Bar and Grill. Here is their MENU - I can attest to their food quality being somewhat (OK, quite a bit) better than what we experienced on Amtrak. Compare their menu offerings and their prices. Oh, and you get real plates along with the flatware.

So, I am trying to make the point that saying Amtrak meal offerings are reasonably priced in comparison to theme parks may not be actually true. I love theme parks, and I love to eat - but I am still a tightwad by nature. I know that the prices charged inside a theme park are higher than surrounding venues, but that is the price of convenience. It is a cost that has to be weighed by each individual. You can take the time to leave the park, find your car, drive to wherever, drive back and walk back to the park - or eat just there. For Disney and Universal Orlando, you can purchase meal plans in conjunction with your lodging. Just like booking a sleeper. Again, it reduces the cost of both (a little) and makes a convenient bundled pricing structure.

For west coast comparison, here is the MENU for a Disneyland cafe we love - the Carnation Cafe. Please take a look at it and compare to the TE/SL or whatever menu offerings and price. Oh, and that is a table-service venue for direct comparison.

Honestly, I think that Amtrak can do better. I may be jaded because my son works at an upscale resort and he has worked in both the Food & Beverage side and is now in the hospitality side. I have seen what a little care and planning can produce - granted it is a much smaller scale than the thousands served daily by Amtrak. I agree with someone else's hypothesis that they need to get a real F&B whiz in there to shake things up instead of promoting some bureaucrat from within!

Now, does anyone else have some more examples of captive-patron food pricing? I'd love to see the comparison. Some have mentioned ballparks, but I refuse to go to any professional sporting event* since their prices have skyrocketed over the last 25 years. Do the ballparks even have anything that compares to what you'd get at a theme park dining venue?

* - OK, I lied - I do attend the local rodeos in our surrounding counties, and I am a banner sponsor for one or two.

While I personally haven't been to an Orioles game in about three years, overall, most MLB ballparks in general have really upped their f/s offerings. You can get upscale meals at most venues now, not at every concession stand mind you, but somewhere in the park. The offerings are quite a far stretch from the old hot dog and fries era.......

 

[VentureForth]

Sorry - after working for Tokyo Disneyland and Walt Disney World for a combined 8 years, I must just say that this thread is very nostalgic and is indulgent of all my favorite memories.

When at WDW, our food was way cheaper than Universal. I think that's worked itself out. But the quality of Disney is much better.

As for Disney's WAY high full table dining service, almost no one can complain of going hungry for the price you pay. They know they aren't cheap, but they cost what the market will bear and they provide excellent value for the most part.

When I worked there, the cast member discount made it much more tolerable.

At Tokyo Disneyland, they used to have a policy of rounding sales tax to the nearest 10-yen, avoiding dealing with chump change (1, 5-yen pieces). You could actually save a buck or two over the course of a day if you bought in really small increments! But that perceived loss was well compensated by only having to deal with four sets of coins rather than 6.

FWIW, all the theme parks still offer coin lockers to stash your personal stash.

I digress...

Back to Amtrak, I have found that a lunch time cheeseburger in the diner is a better value than in the Cafe. Sorry - that's my only contribution to the topic of this thread.

 

[Manny T]

We should add a political dimension to this discussion. It would help explain Amtrak's on-board food pricing.

There is a congressional mandate requiring Amtrak to make a profit on food services. In short, it's the law--Amtrak must make a profit on food.

Amtrak has never done so, and probably never will. But this explains a tendency to price HIGH.

Food cannot be a loss-leader, or a pure amenity. That's why e.g. the pre-trip wine & cheese party on the LSL went away.

Also consider this: when you pay for food on board, you are also paying for the salaries & benefits of the food-service staff. There was a congressional hearing about this recently.

It took a legal counsel's memo to determine whether labor costs should be included in food costs when determining Amtrak's profit or loss on food service. The answer was, include labor costs.

Nothing explains the (relatively) high cost of food on Amtrak better than this imo.

I read the transcript of the congressional hearing and wish I could provide a link. Interesting reading.

Many congressmen chimed in with their opinions of what a Pepsi should cost on Amtrak, based on their experiences at Walmart, ball-parks, grocery stores, etc. Very entertaining. And very sad.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Perfect example of how the hired Puppets of the Ruling Class ( Congress) are out of touch with reality!

Comparing Wal- Mart ( we love our employees enough to advise them how to get food stamps!)to Amtrak is like comparing "W" to Thomas Jefferson, it just doesn't compute!

Let them eat cake indeed!

 

[stageman12]

Sorry - after working for Tokyo Disneyland and Walt Disney World for a combined 8 years, I must just say that this thread is very nostalgic and is indulgent of all my favorite memories.

When at WDW, our food was way cheaper than Universal. I think that's worked itself out. But the quality of Disney is much better.

As for Disney's WAY high full table dining service, almost no one can complain of going hungry for the price you pay. They know they aren't cheap, but they cost what the market will bear and they provide excellent value for the most part.

When I worked there, the cast member discount made it much more tolerable.

At Tokyo Disneyland, they used to have a policy of rounding sales tax to the nearest 10-yen, avoiding dealing with chump change (1, 5-yen pieces). You could actually save a buck or two over the course of a day if you bought in really small increments! But that perceived loss was well compensated by only having to deal with four sets of coins rather than 6.

FWIW, all the theme parks still offer coin lockers to stash your personal stash.

I digress...

Back to Amtrak, I have found that a lunch time cheeseburger in the diner is a better value than in the Cafe. Sorry - that's my only contribution to the topic of this thread.

I'm in the same boat (or train, if you will)... spent 11 years at Universal Orlando (merchandise management) while my wife worked WDW for 7 years. Didn't have to pay admission to any FL theme park there for awhile, and our daughter was an expert at queueing by 2 years old... The food was hit or miss usually, and you needed to know where the hidden gems were. Mythos at IOA was always one of my favorites- not too expensive for table service and solid quality.

 

[zephyr17]

The sit-down table service restaurants at WDW have uniformly excellent service, some of the best restaurant service I've ever seen. The food is very good to great as well. I've been to most of them, and most of them more than once. My daughter and I went to WDW every year from the time she was through college and we always took a mid-afternoon break and had a good sit down meal. It was expensive, but getting off your feet and out of crowds was well worth it.

I am not an Amtrak basher at all, but you really can't compare the quality of service in an Amtrak dining car, and I've been on lots of those too, to the very consistent excellent service that the sit-down restaurants at WDW provide.

Stageman, that is not to slight Mythos at Islands of Adventure, it had excellent service as well.

 

[stageman12]

Stageman, that is not to slight Mythos at Islands of Adventure, it had excellent service as well.

No worries, as we too enjoyed the WDW restaurants. California Grill, Flying Fish Cafe and Citricos come to mind. Tying back to Amtrack, I haven't been in a dining car since 1997, but we enjoyed that trip immensely.