Flat Iron Seaks

[cpamtfan]

I had a delicious flat iron steak on the way back from the Gathering. That was leaving NYP Tuesday afternoon November 3.

My wife and I left The Gathering on 11/3 and had the Flat Iron on the LSL after the merge in Albany. It wasn't steak and it was terrible.

The Diner-Lite cars don't have grills, so grilled items are not an option.

Then why do they call it steak and charge $22.50?

They don't actually say its steak. They say "red wine braised flat iron of beef" on the LSL menu. Barely a mention of steak.

 

[BeckysBarn]

...I'll admit that I rarely encounter a steak I really dislike.

Ditto.

 

[guest]

It also goes back to about 2006 when there wern't steaks or freshly cooked meals at all! So just enjoy the food, and if you don't like it, don't get it because steak isn't the only option.

You can't "enjoy the food"it if it is not good. Breakfast was OK, the hamburger I had for lunch was good, but neither dinner of steak or chicken I had was anywhere near what I would call "good" on the Empire Builder. The Chocolate Peanut Butter Pie was very good as was the Cheesecake I had on the second night.

 

[yarrow]

kind of off topic but given the $22.50 steak and what seem to me to be generally overpiced meals on amtrak i wonder how many coach passengers order the steak (or the $22.50 pot roast) and what they think of it? we never eat in the diner when we travel coach (we bring food with us as it's way too expensive for our family).

 

[wayman]

kind of off topic but given the $22.50 steak and what seem to me to be generally overpiced meals on amtrak i wonder how many coach passengers order the steak (or the $22.50 pot roast) and what they think of it? we never eat in the diner when we travel coach (we bring food with us as it's way too expensive for our family).

I almost always travel coach, and always eat in the dining car. I probably have the beef entree (whether or not it's "steak") about a fourth of the time, and I've never been upset with it. Some Amtrak beef entrees have been better than others, and the grilled steak is the best in my opinion.

I don't tend to see many of my tablemates order the beef entree, whether they're from coach or sleeper (and I'd say my tablemates have tended to come about equally from each end of the train). I have a sense that most people order the chicken or vegetarian plates, but I haven't actually kept notes on this. I don't know 1, whether this observation is accurate to begin with, or 2, whether (if it's accurate) for the coach passengers it's more cost-conscious or something else.

 

[had8ley]

I had a delicious flat iron steak on the way back from the Gathering. That was leaving NYP Tuesday afternoon November 3.

My wife and I left The Gathering on 11/3 and had the Flat Iron on the LSL after the merge in Albany. It wasn't steak and it was terrible.

The Diner-Lite cars don't have grills, so grilled items are not an option.

Then why do they call it steak and charge $22.50?

They don't actually say its steak. They say "red wine braised flat iron of beef" on the LSL menu. Barely a mention of steak.

Good golly...if I mentioned sirloin, T-bone or Porterhouse to a hundred people and ask them to fill in the missing word what do you think would be the answer? I've NEVER heard the term "flat iron" used except when to describe a steak. Besides, I have never seen "flat iron stew" on a menu anywhere...including Amtrak.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Good golly...if I mentioned sirloin, T-bone or Porterhouse to a hundred people and ask them to fill in the missing word what do you think would be the answer? I've NEVER heard the term "flat iron" used except when to describe a steak. Besides, I have never seen "flat iron stew" on a menu anywhere...including Amtrak.

While I grant that the average American's grasp of English is so laughably low it makes me want to cry, the way they phrase it is not misleading. A steak is a cut of beef, sure. But we do not call something a "steak of beef". Something that is a steak is called a [name of cut] steak. A sirloin or tenderloin or such "of beef", generally implies it is roasted. I have seen on menus a "sirloin of beef" from time to time reflecting a roasted or braised piece of meat. A sirloin is usually grilled, but not always.

They call it a braised hunk of beef taking from the flat iron section of the cow. And gee golly, Jay, it is... a braised hunk of beef taken from the flat iron section of the cow.

 

[Ispolkom]

A steak is a cut of beef, sure. But we do not call something a "steak of beef".

You are mistaken. A Google search on "steak of beef" comes up with "about 242,000" hits, which proves that it's a pretty standard usage. Language, remember, is what people speak, not what self-appointed authorities think they should speak.

I can see Had8ley's point of view, though. Let's remember that the flat iron cut was invented quite recently (some sources say 2002) to allow butchers to sell at steak prices a piece of chuck that otherwise would be ground into hamburger. It was heavily promoted as a great new steak, and steak means grilling, broiling or frying to most people (look up the definition of steak in any dictionary). The Amtrak menu, though, tries to have it both ways. It's a "Red Wine Braised Flat Iron of Beef." I'd focus on the word "braised," since that clearly indicates the method of cooking, but I can't blame others from seeing "flat iron" and thinking grilled steak.

On the other hand, I love pot roast (I'm thawing out a chuck roast right now for tomorrow's pot roast), so I doubt I'd be unhappy with this dish. Heck, I really liked the braised lamb shank on the Empire Builder. I think I'll be eating 6 or 7 Amtrak dinners later this month, so perhaps I'll have a chance to try it.

 

[Ryan]

You are mistaken. A Google search on "steak of beef" comes up with "about 242,000" hits, which proves that it's a pretty standard usage.

I disagree, that proves nothing. "Steak" returns about 29 million hits and "beef" returns about 53 million hits, so people using the two in conjunction is comparatively rare. If anything, you've proved GML's point.

steak means grilling, broiling or frying to most people (look up the definition of steak in any dictionary).

Strangely, when you do that it defines steak as a cut of meat and that most times they are prepared grilled or fried, but that its the cut of meat and not the preparation that makes a steak a steak.

 

[tp49]

I have to admit I find it entertaining that the greatest issue Amtrak is facing according to the forums here is the "Great Flat Iron Debate." This has to be the second or third topic on it.

It does make me wonder one thing and this is because there was mention of price. I'm wondering of the passengers who use the dining car on a trip how many come from the sleepers where meals are included in the accommodation price versus the number who come from the coaches and pay out of pocket.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Speaking of which, this page came with an ad that is trying to sell "flat iron" hair straighteners.

 

[Ispolkom]

You are mistaken. A Google search on "steak of beef" comes up with "about 242,000" hits, which proves that it's a pretty standard usage.

I disagree, that proves nothing. "Steak" returns about 29 million hits and "beef" returns about 53 million hits, so people using the two in conjunction is comparatively rare. If anything, you've proved GML's point.

steak means grilling, broiling or frying to most people (look up the definition of steak in any dictionary).

Strangely, when you do that it defines steak as a cut of meat and that most times they are prepared grilled or fried, but that its the cut of meat and not the preparation that makes a steak a steak.

On the first point, I think that you are mistaken. "Beef" and "steak" are words. "Steak of beef" is a phrase. Note that on a quick search I find there are 125k references to "porterhouse steak" and 526k hits for "sirloin steak." So the usage "steak of beef" appears less often than "sirloin steak," but much more often than "porterhouse steak," and in both cases is in the same order of magnitude. Given that both porterhouse steak and sirloin steak are common phrases, I can't see how you can argue that "steak of beef" is an uncommon usage.

I'll grant that Google is a dull knife for this kind of usage frequency study, but I don't have access at home to better sources.

On your second point, I'd argue (as I have before) that the common understanding of steak both involves the cut of meat and the method of cooking. You can most easily see this in the more extensive uses of the word (though I'd be happy to present an etymological argument). A ham steak (92.2k hits) or a swordfish steak (184k hits) have little to do with the cut of meat involved, but much to do with preparation and presentation. I'll grant that "beefsteak tomato" is a harder case, but surely this usage refers to the appearance of both a rare steak and a red tomato.

Me, I can't care less what locomotive is at the front of the train I'm on, but I'm endlessly fascinated by food and language. To each his own.

EDIT: "Porter house steak" gets 577k hits, but doesn't really affect my argument.

 

[wayman]

Speaking of which, this page came with an ad that is trying to sell "flat iron" hair straighteners.

Are they also $22.50?

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Speaking of which, this page came with an ad that is trying to sell "flat iron" hair straighteners.

Are they also $22.50?

The Flatiron Tree.

As D. Vader says, impressive.

 

[The Metropolitan]

I have to admit I find it entertaining that the greatest issue Amtrak is facing according to the forums here is the "Great Flat Iron Debate." This has to be the second or third topic on it.

Agreed.

Methinks its time I start a Baked Potato topic, given that the last time I rode LD, the Baked Potatoes were no longer brushed with coarse Sea Salt, and there was no Sour Cream to be found.

Due to the badmouthing it recieved here, I skipped the Flat Iron "prepared and cooked Cut of Beef" but all of my tablemates partook of it and were unanimous in giving it a strong thumbs UP. :blink:

 

[Ryan]

On the first point, I think that you are mistaken. "Beef" and "steak" are words. "Steak of beef" is a phrase. Note that on a quick search I find there are 125k references to "porterhouse steak" and 526k hits for "sirloin steak." So the usage "steak of beef" appears less often than "sirloin steak," but much more often than "porterhouse steak," and in both cases is in the same order of magnitude. Given that both porterhouse steak and sirloin steak are common phrases, I can't see how you can argue that "steak of beef" is an uncommon usage.
I'll grant that Google is a dull knife for this kind of usage frequency study, but I don't have access at home to better sources.

Good point, I didn't think of that.

On your second point, I'd argue (as I have before) that the common understanding of steak both involves the cut of meat and the method of cooking. You can most easily see this in the more extensive uses of the word (though I'd be happy to present an etymological argument). A ham steak (92.2k hits) or a swordfish steak (184k hits) have little to do with the cut of meat involved, but much to do with preparation and presentation.

I still disagree here - when I think of a ham steak, for me at least that refers to a slice of ham that's roughly steak shaped, whether I put it in the oven, on the grill or in the frying pan.
At the end of the day, it's still much ago about nothing, since the menu never referred to the braised flat iron as a steak. I stand by my point that for everyone that doesn't post here, they read the menu, order the braised beef if that's what they want, and the dish is judged on its merits. Only folks like us that have an expectation of a grilled stake stand to be disappointed when they don't read the menu and order the beef and get something vastly different than what they were expecting.

 

[Ispolkom]

At the end of the day, it's still much ago about nothing, since the menu never referred to the braised flat iron as a steak. I stand by my point that for everyone that doesn't post here, they read the menu, order the braised beef if that's what they want, and the dish is judged on its merits. Only folks like us that have an expectation of a grilled stake stand to be disappointed when they don't read the menu and order the beef and get something vastly different than what they were expecting.

Oh, sure, but if we didn't have 1) the flat iron steak, 2) tipping, and 3) the Sunset Limited east of New Orleans, where would this forum be?

The perfect post might be to ask how much to tip when you order the flat iron product, whatever it is, on the Sunset Limited.

 

[had8ley]

At the end of the day, it's still much ago about nothing, since the menu never referred to the braised flat iron as a steak. I stand by my point that for everyone that doesn't post here, they read the menu, order the braised beef if that's what they want, and the dish is judged on its merits. Only folks like us that have an expectation of a grilled stake stand to be disappointed when they don't read the menu and order the beef and get something vastly different than what they were expecting.

Oh, sure, but if we didn't have 1) the flat iron steak, 2) tipping, and 3) the Sunset Limited east of New Orleans, where would this forum be?

The perfect post might be to ask how much to tip when you order the flat iron product, whatever it is,

Well for starters we could mull over how many special agents we could assign to Beaumont; oh wait, we don't have a station. Well, let's have a contest to see who can design a depot for Beaumont and Mobile (it has to be Amshack styling.) The winner gets a ride on the Chicken Bone Express between NOL and JAX on heavyweight equipment leased from tourist RR's since we have such a dire shortage of equipment. (Wasn't that a re-built car in last months INK?) Then we have a contest to re-name the NOL east train and the food. Now, how much more exciting is that?

 

[Ryan]

At the end of the day, it's still much ago about nothing, since the menu never referred to the braised flat iron as a steak. I stand by my point that for everyone that doesn't post here, they read the menu, order the braised beef if that's what they want, and the dish is judged on its merits. Only folks like us that have an expectation of a grilled stake stand to be disappointed when they don't read the menu and order the beef and get something vastly different than what they were expecting.

Oh, sure, but if we didn't have 1) the flat iron steak, 2) tipping, and 3) the Sunset Limited east of New Orleans, where would this forum be?

The perfect post might be to ask how much to tip when you order the flat iron product, whatever it is, on the Sunset Limited.

Only if they bring back the Turbo Trains to provide the equipment for the SL East.

 

[frj1983]

At the end of the day, it's still much ago about nothing, since the menu never referred to the braised flat iron as a steak. I stand by my point that for everyone that doesn't post here, they read the menu, order the braised beef if that's what they want, and the dish is judged on its merits. Only folks like us that have an expectation of a grilled stake stand to be disappointed when they don't read the menu and order the beef and get something vastly different than what they were expecting.

Oh, sure, but if we didn't have 1) the flat iron steak, 2) tipping, and 3) the Sunset Limited east of New Orleans, where would this forum be?

The perfect post might be to ask how much to tip when you order the flat iron product, whatever it is,

Well for starters we could mull over how many special agents we could assign to Beaumont; oh wait, we don't have a station. Well, let's have a contest to see who can design a depot for Beaumont and Mobile (it has to be Amshack styling.) The winner gets a ride on the Chicken Bone Express between NOL and JAX on heavyweight equipment leased from tourist RR's since we have such a dire shortage of equipment. (Wasn't that a re-built car in last months INK?) Then we have a contest to re-name the NOL east train and the food. Now, how much more exciting is that?

OK you all have to stop now because I've been laughing so hard that tears are flowing down my face. But seriously, I really enjoyed the braised beef (OK I shortened it) when I rode the LSL in September and despite the fact that it could only be warmed up, it came very, very hot, In fact, the Chef put a second melmac plate under it as the first was warped by the heat. Or was it really melmac? Perhaps we could start a new thread??

 

[zepherdude]

Like you, I will never gripe about the Braised Beef and promise to leave HUGE tips if we just could reconsider Karaoke nights in the baggage car and piped into the whole train and maybe do look alike contests, westbound, dress like and sing Tennesee Ernie Ford songs, eastbound dress like and sing Kate Smith songs and so on. This could just become soooooo Amtrak! Bless Ma Pea Pickin Heart! What a plan, lets do it!

 

[wayman]

Like you, I will never gripe about the Braised Beef and promise to leave HUGE tips if we just could reconsider Karaoke nights in the baggage car and piped into the whole train and maybe do look alike contests, westbound, dress like and sing Tennesee Ernie Ford songs, eastbound dress like and sing Kate Smith songs and so on. This could just become soooooo Amtrak! Bless Ma Pea Pickin Heart! What a plan, lets do it!

We shouldn't be talking about how great karaoke in the baggage car would be on this internet forum -- we should be writing our Senators and telling THEM we want karaoke in the baggage car!

 

[had8ley]

I had a delicious flat iron steak on the way back from the Gathering. That was leaving NYP Tuesday afternoon November 3.

My wife and I left The Gathering on 11/3 and had the Flat Iron on the LSL after the merge in Albany. It wasn't steak and it was terrible.

The Diner-Lite cars don't have grills, so grilled items are not an option.

Then why do they call it steak and charge $22.50?

They don't actually say its steak. They say "red wine braised flat iron of beef" on the LSL menu. Barely a mention of steak.

Well the 0609 Crescent menu has FLAT IRON "STEAK" specifically printed on the menu. If I wasn't such a dinosaur I'd post it where you could see it. Just go to Amtrak dining options for the Crescent~ the old menu (are we surprised?) is still posted there for all to see. Now that we have that settled just where is Special Agent Pat?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I had a delicious flat iron steak on the way back from the Gathering. That was leaving NYP Tuesday afternoon November 3.

My wife and I left The Gathering on 11/3 and had the Flat Iron on the LSL after the merge in Albany. It wasn't steak and it was terrible.

The Diner-Lite cars don't have grills, so grilled items are not an option.

Then why do they call it steak and charge $22.50?

They don't actually say its steak. They say "red wine braised flat iron of beef" on the LSL menu. Barely a mention of steak.

Well the 0609 Crescent menu has FLAT IRON "STEAK" specifically printed on the menu. If I wasn't such a dinosaur I'd post it where you could see it. Just go to Amtrak dining options for the Crescent~ the old menu (are we surprised?) is still posted there for all to see. Now that we have that settled just where is Special Agent Pat?

6-2009 was pretty close to the menu change, in fact, I believe the change happened early in the month.

 

[wayman]

Well the 0609 Crescent menu has FLAT IRON "STEAK" specifically printed on the menu. If I wasn't such a dinosaur I'd post it where you could see it. Just go to Amtrak dining options for the Crescent~ the old menu (are we surprised?) is still posted there for all to see. Now that we have that settled just where is Special Agent Pat?

6-2009 was pretty close to the menu change, in fact, I believe the change happened early in the month.

For what it's worth, this was the Crescent menu in late September, but on November 1st, Train 20 had a new menu (blue cover, slightly different, LSA said it was the first run with that menu). As I was only on the train for breakfast and lunch, sadly I don't recall what the beef dinner entree was!