Employee Undermining Amtrak Revenue Efforts

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Since overstock will be wasted which has a cost there has to be a balanced system. Sometimes it will be better to run out of stock rather than trash a lot of stock. No stocking algorithm is going to be perfect in anticipating demand.
Sure. But any inventory management algorithm requires management assign the costs of over and under stock. If the cost of donating a unit of overstock to some food bank (I sure hope they do that) is very high and the cost of stiffing a customer approaches zero, then you might see the situation that posters are complaining about.

A second point is that Amtrak should have more than enough data to estimate demand. The problem is that it's harder (requires a more sophisticated statistician) to estimate demand of a steak that is out of stock.
 
Perhaps in the new Viewliner II Bags they could have incorporated a Store Room with Fridge and Freezer to store enough inventory. Then if the Diner or Lounge is low on something, Crew just goes to the Bag and takes out what they need, checking it out on some kind of Inventory Control.
 
I was thinking that...if the bag has power and climate control, installing a fridge unit of some kind would seem to be doable, at least on paper.
 
Very rarely is the issue having ample storage for food in the dining car. The bigger issue is accurately predicting what will be in demand on a particular trip. Amtrak would be better served spending that potential capital money on getting a better handle on what items are moving on the trains and stocking accordingly.
 
I don't know if it is utterly defective and you don't know either. It is not obvious. Are you ten years old?
Are you six years old? Yes, it is completely obvious to anyone with half a clue (which you obviously lack) that the "algorithm" for stocking the trains is utterly defective. The OBS crew was rolling their eyes about it and actually *asked* me to complain to Amtrak. 70 side salads and *zero* entree salads; for >400 people on a full train, both sleepers and coach full, with an extra coach and people seated in the cafe car due to lack of seats. This is pretty much guaranteed to be too few.

Neorden, this may be hard to believe, but at least last year cafe service for west of Albany was under LD but Adirondack and Ethan Allen was under NEC or something completely wonky like that. I don't remember the details, but Bruce Becker explained it to me and I came out with my head spinning in disbelief!
Oh good grief! Yeeeeesh, that's confusing... but it would mean that everything I've had trouble with is under the "long distance" department.

Since overstock will be wasted which has a cost there has to be a balanced system. Sometimes it will be better to run out of stock rather than trash a lot of stock. No stocking algorithm is going to be perfect in anticipating demand.
Sure. But any inventory management algorithm requires management assign the costs of over and under stock. If the cost of donating a unit of overstock to some food bank (I sure hope they do that) is very high and the cost of stiffing a customer approaches zero, then you might see the situation that posters are complaining about.
Well, the cost of stiffing me was minimum $28. So there's a data point.

A second point is that Amtrak should have more than enough data to estimate demand. The problem is that it's harder (requires a more sophisticated statistician) to estimate demand of a steak that is out of stock.
Pretty damn near impossible to estimate demand of an out-of-stock item, actually; you would have to do surveys.
People calling up and filing *complaints* due to the item being out of stock should be a solid hint that it's understocked. Of course, when people like me decide that they can't rely on Amtrak food service and start bringing our own food in coolers, then "demand" visible to Amtrak will fall. Which means simply that management is incompetent, nothing more.
 
I was thinking that...if the bag has power and climate control, installing a fridge unit of some kind would seem to be doable, at least on paper.
Bag does not have climate control. It has wall mounted heaters and roof mounted exhaust fans, those big ugly doohickeys on the roof. That's it.
 
Lincoln Service Chicago to St Louis has a constant issue with this over years. No commissary in St Louis to restock. Plenty of times recently and in past I have heard customers being told this or that is out of stock. Sometimes it is a run on popular items such as cheeseburgers. Other times mostly on a Friday night trip - were all you booze hounds devour adult beverages to quickly. Honestly Lincoln Service to me seems to have many passengers that have drinking problems - but revenue is being lost on this route on regular food items being unavailable.
 
Hi,

Just out of interest, I was wondering why an employee, or Amtrak's procedures themselves, undermining their profit was a concern? Obviously if you are hungry and they don't have what you want, or indeed anything, to eat then that goes without saying, but I just wondered why them not maximising profit would be an issue to passengers? I don't know much about Amtrak but from what I've read it seems they often make a loss(?), so is it more based on concern about their preservation as a company so that their train journeys can continue to be enjoyed?
 
RE: salads, they are no longer included with each meal. If you are in a sleeper you have to ask for one, if you are in coach you have to pay for one. I for one kept forgetting to ask and noticed that there were darn few out on the tables. Obviously they are not selling as many as when they were free. BUT when you do remember to ask they are much bigger and have more cherry tomatoes..
 
Well, the cost of stiffing me was minimum $28. So there's a data point.
The unit cost of a stock out is more than just the lost sale; it includes lost future business and good will. The later is much more difficult to estimate than the cost of stocking an extra unit. So the bean counters usually ignore it and under estimate the cost of stiffing the customer.

Pretty damn near impossible to estimate demand of an out-of-stock item, actually; you would have to do surveys.
Actually, if you also have the number of units stocked, then it is possible. It's similar to an insurance company trying to estimate the size of a claim with deductibles. Just as Amtrak doesn't see the demand for a steak that doesn't exist, actuaries don't see claims under the deductible.
 
Stocking issues have been present in Amtrak for at least 20 years.
Once, 11 years ago I bought the last cheeseburger on a south bound Empire train while we were sitting in the Albany station. The origin of the train was Albany.
 
RE: salads, they are no longer included with each meal. If you are in a sleeper you have to ask for one, if you are in coach you have to pay for one. I for one kept forgetting to ask and noticed that there were darn few out on the tables. Obviously they are not selling as many as when they were free. BUT when you do remember to ask they are much bigger and have more cherry tomatoes..
They refused to give me one when I asked and waved money at them.

Stocking issues have been present in Amtrak for at least 20 years.

Once, 11 years ago I bought the last cheeseburger on a south bound Empire train while we were sitting in the Albany station. The origin of the train was Albany.
Ouch. Pretty outrageous. This is no way to run a business. I'm not really pleased to hear that they've been this incompetent off-and-on for 20 years... but it's good to know how long it's been going on.
 
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Well, the cost of stiffing me was minimum $28. So there's a data point.

The unit cost of a stock out is more than just the lost sale; it includes lost future business and good will. The later is much more difficult to estimate than the cost of stocking an extra unit. So the bean counters usually ignore it and under estimate the cost of stiffing the customer.
Yeah. I reported to Customer Relations and got a certificate; if everyone did this, the cost of stiffing the customer might start to show up on their radar.



Pretty damn near impossible to estimate demand of an out-of-stock item, actually; you would have to do surveys.
Actually, if you also have the number of units stocked, then it is possible. It's similar to an insurance company trying to estimate the size of a claim with deductibles. Just as Amtrak doesn't see the demand for a steak that doesn't exist, actuaries don't see claims under the deductible.
If the number of units stocked is ZERO (as it was with the entree salad), the estimators can't estimate anything without a survey. Similarly, without outside data, actuaries can't estimate claims for something which insurance companies *don't cover at all*.
 
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Food service on Empire Service has been a problem ever since they shut down the Albany commissary. The reason for this is not necessarily obvious since they should be able to carry enough stock for a round trip out of SSDY.
 
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An institutional problem, even when Amtrak didn't use catering companies. Oh the re-stock issues were MUCH less decades ago, but GOD FORBID you are assigned a SOLD OUT TRAIN, and once your par stock is delivered, you ORDER MORE! I can't tell you how many arguments I had with yard or commissary personnel over my (frequent) add-ons to my par stock.

And let's me real here, "...Wanting to solicit more business in the diner...?" BLASPHEMER! That means MORE WORK! (and by the way you dolt, "more tips", and "less stock to count/inventory load/off load" at the end of the trip.

Some people will do whatever it takes to please the customer, others just don't get "it", some can be trained in hospitality, and a few could just care less.
 
And let's me real here, "...Wanting to solicit more business in the diner...?" BLASPHEMER! That means MORE WORK! (and by the way you dolt, "more tips"
Yeah. I know the situation I encountered wasn't the dining car crew's fault, but I wasn't about to leave a tip after the treatment I got (I usually do, but the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth). And after witnessing the situation, the other passengers at the table didn't leave a tip either.
 
Hi,

Just out of interest, I was wondering why an employee, or Amtrak's procedures themselves, undermining their profit was a concern? Obviously if you are hungry and they don't have what you want, or indeed anything, to eat then that goes without saying, but I just wondered why them not maximising profit would be an issue to passengers? I don't know much about Amtrak but from what I've read it seems they often make a loss(?), so is it more based on concern about their preservation as a company so that their train journeys can continue to be enjoyed?
You're sort of on the point there, but I can focus my concern in a bit more...

There are amenities, such as the PPC, which need to generate revenue to justify their existence to certain people in the world. I will even grant that some of this behavior is not without merit (after all, there have been things that Amtrak has done which ultimately made very little business sense and didn't do a decent job of making up for it on the passenger side of things), though it can go a bit far. Most of this centers on food service, though the available service in the PPC is another such item on the Coast Starlight.

I care about these things because they are a non-trivial part of my life: I care about diner service because I use the diner an average of once every two weeks (I regularly take the Meteor home from DC to Richmond, and steak dinners on there are something I regularly look forward to, while I do miss having more variety on the Star north to DC). There's something I love about being able to do this, and I'm inclined to do everything I can to defend it in no small part because I use it with great regularity. To me, this service isn't some abstract item out on a balance sheet...it is something I've used dozens of times and which if I am able to, God willing, will use hundreds more.

The PPC I appreciate because of its uniqueness. It adds significant value to a trip from LA to San Francisco or Seattle, if just because there is extra room there. The wifi, when available and working, is also nice...it helps make the time less of a waste in many respects...

But I digress. I care because I use Amtrak. I know how tenuous what we have is and I know the impact that a single employee making a regular hash of a service can have. For example, block out 4 passengers from dinner once a week and you could easily just have cost Amtrak over $5000; do that on every train with a diner once a week, each way, and you're looking at as much as $140,000 (if not more, once you throw in drink purchases). Shut down the wine tasting once a week and you're looking at a couple thousand dollars there as well. Yes, there's COGS to throw in, but so much of the cost here is fairly fixed that it does matter and efforts on these fronts one way or another can have a non-trivial impact on the cost recovery numbers the diners post.

I'll scale this up a bit more to drive the point home: Let us assume, for a moment, that every diner crew made an effort to fill one more table at dinner on every train throughout 2015. Let us assume that no salads were purchased, that the entree was the average of the 5 available ($19.30), that one half of an average dessert was sold per person ($2.625; I excluded the sugar free option), and that one half of a serving of alcohol was sold per person ($3.00). So your average person just added $24.925 to diner revenue. At four per table, that's $99.70 per dinner; if you do this for each of the dinners served, you get around 35 tables/night, times 365 days...that's something like $1.27m/yr in revenue for the dining car. I can't peg the COGS figure there, but you should be able to do this on a lot of trains without seriously affecting staff allocations...so you'd probably close diner losses by at least $500-700k/yr on that one filled table at each night's dinner. And you know what? $500-700k/yr is a long way towards adding another sleeper to the fleet every few years.
 
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"I care because I use Amtrak."

It might amaze you and many other forum members - how many riders do NOT!! Many are happy to accept mediocre to downright horrible service. Just feel that is how things are and don't see a need to make an effort to try and make sure things change. It might amaze many here - how passengers will actually give dirty looks or look down upon those of us who don't accept status quo and speak our minds onboard.

Many don't realize how easy it would be for their current services to disappear. Some don't have experience on other routes that offer a different customer service standard. They also don't seem to have a clue how hard people have worked to make sure their service stays up and running or gets improved.
 
RE: salads, they are no longer included with each meal. If you are in a sleeper you have to ask for one
Untrue in my experience on 19 a few weeks ago. Our table was offered salads, and I heard every table around us offered a salad, coach or sleeper (those in coach were proactively reminded there would be a charge).
 
On recent Capitol Limited trip - roomette - shared meal with coach and room passengers. Out to DC and back to Chicago - salads where offered to everyone seated. Meal companions did have salad - I declined each time. Customer service on this route was definitely A+.

Honestly can't remember in regards to roomette trip on City of New Orleans - that was early in year. Service with crew to Memphis - not very good at all - never saw sleeping car attendant. Dinner customer service subpar. Much better service on return trip to Chicago.

Don't recall salad being offered with lunch on California Zephyr a few months ago. If it was an option - 3 hour 44 minute late train probably has other concerns other than salad. Customer service levels in diner, room and coach on this route were way above average.
 
RE: salads, they are no longer included with each meal. If you are in a sleeper you have to ask for one
Untrue in my experience on 19 a few weeks ago. Our table was offered salads, and I heard every table around us offered a salad, coach or sleeper (those in coach were proactively reminded there would be a charge).
Seriously. On the outbound SWC last month, salads were placed on our table after we sat down. On the way home, the server asked if we'd like a salad.
 
Stocking issues have been present in Amtrak for at least 20 years.

Once, 11 years ago I bought the last cheeseburger on a south bound Empire train while we were sitting in the Albany station. The origin of the train was Albany.
A few months ago I bought the PPC's last bottle of Jack Daniels shortly after departing our very first station. Their entire stock for two days of service was exactly two shots. I asked if any more would be stocked en route but apparently that's not part of the process. Which will lead me to bring my own in the future since I can no longer count on the carrier to stock enough of their own to be practical. Presumably the cafe attendant had their own supply, but I've had them cafe attendant run out just as quickly as the PPC on other trips.
 
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It's looking like the stocking procedures are the real weak point here, especially after what rrdude wrote. If the stock is available, 90+% of the dining car staff does the right thing. (Apart from the guy Anderson dealt with, who should be reported to his boss.)

But if the stocking isn't done right... it seems like there are no consequences. Even if the stocking level is absolutely ridiculous and any fool would realize that it was too low.

This seems like a high-level management problem. Hmm.
 
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