Empire Builder vs. Sunset Limited

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blinks

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Hello Amtrak Unlimited people!

I'm planning to use a bunch of Amtrak miles I have saved up for a 2 night roomette trip across the western united states in December.

I've already done the Southwest Chief and the California Zephyr so now I'm trying to decide between the Sunset Limited and Empire Builder.

The plan is to take a friday off work and fly to LAX/SEA or PDX and take the train to MSY/CHI.

I have heard the scenery is better on the Empire Builder, but in the middle of December I'm slightly concerned about delays and missing my return flight on Sunday from CHI.

Any tips/suggestions?

Thanks!!!

-Blinks
 
blinks said:
Hello Amtrak Unlimited people!

I'm planning to use a bunch of Amtrak miles I have saved up for a 2 night roomette trip across the western united states in December.

I've already done the Southwest Chief and the California Zephyr so now I'm trying to decide between the Sunset Limited and Empire Builder.

The plan is to take a friday off work and fly to LAX/SEA or PDX and take the train to MSY/CHI.

I have heard the scenery is better on the Empire Builder, but in the middle of December I'm slightly concerned about delays and missing my return flight on Sunday from CHI.

Any tips/suggestions?

Thanks!!!

-Blinks
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The Builder. Better service, better equipment, and scenery is more interesting.

The only problem with December is the limited about of daylight cuts down on the scenery you will see. But, the Builder is a great train to ride, and the scenery is just a bonus.

Also, consider going westbound on the train and flying back. That may help ease worries of delays if you build in a few days of layover when you get to SEA or PDX by train. I prefer to arrive/depart PDX instead of SEA, but you can’t go wrong with either route. I like Portland better. Their airport is nice, the city is a lot of fun, and going up the Columbia River Gorge is beautiful.
 
the_traveler said:
I moved this topic to allow more members to see it and hopefully provide you with an answer!
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In terms of scenary, the Empire Builder is better. In terms of a flight out of Chicago, no matter what season you should allow a generous cushion for connections from a long-distance train. I almost always schedule an overnight stay at the destination of the LD train before onward travel.

I have only taken the Sunset twice, but both times it had some of the best onboard crews I have had the pleasure to travel with. Of course on that, it is alwasy YMMV. One argument for the Sunset is that it is the perennial whipping boy and would likely be the first to the guillotine if they start cutting LD service, so you could consider it a "ride while you can" situation. The Builder, on the other hand, would probably last until all long distance service was cut.
 
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It depends on what you like.. miles and miles of empty desert on a OK train with a really nice crew and OK equipment or miles of Great Plains followed (or proceeded) by a lovely trip through s couple of awesome mountain ranges on a nicer train with really nice equipment, but (IMO) an OK-ish crew. Personally, Id chose the Builder, but I'm not everyone. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. I love riding trains through the mountains, the desert scenery bores me, unless I see a stray jackalope.
 
Full disclosure, I grew up in a town served by the Empire Builder, so take my EB enthusiasm with a grain of salt, but the lush Wisconsin countryside followed by waking up in wide open North Dakota, [which like eastern Montana can be a bit stark in December], but then during day 2 you get closer and closer to the Rockies and they fold out around you... Beautiful. Not sure when you get to the Columbia River, but it is phenomenal as well. Very green and it really gives you a feel for the power of the Columbia river.

I just did the Sunset Limited, and it was nice when the sun set over the hills in the west, but it wasn't all that impressive. I did like the semi-arid parts but it got a bit monotonous.

I really can't say that I liked the crew or the train itself all that much more when I compared the two of them, the Coastal Starlight was my favorite train and crew and the Crescent was my least favorite, but the SL and EB were similar to me. The food on the two was similar, again not great but better than what I got on the Crescent.

Michael061282 said:
It depends on what you like.. miles and miles of empty desert on a OK train with a really nice crew and OK equipment or miles of Great Plains followed (or proceeded) by a lovely trip through s couple of awesome mountain ranges on a nicer train with really nice equipment, but (IMO) an OK-ish crew. Personally, Id chose the Builder, but I'm not everyone. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. I love riding trains through the mountains, the desert scenery bores me, unless I see a stray jackalope.
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I'd pick the Sunset, personally, but that's more the "ride it while you can" aspect...it's something of an ambition of mine to "ace" the LD network, and that particular leg is going to be a pain to deal with.
 
I am assuming that you mean a 2-zone roomette rather than a 2-night roomette.

This means that you can take a roomette two zones from LAX-PDX-CHI for a 3-night, 2-zone roomette.

Or, go DEN-SAC-PDX-MSP for a 4-night, 2-zone roomette (I don't think they'd let you have that routing for Denver to Chicago since the Zephyr is more direct).
 
Id suggest riding the Empire Builder to Portland, as was said the Columbia River and Glacier Park are spectacular scenery and the Portland Airport is a nice one to use also! There is only one sleeper on the Portland Section of #27 so its harder to book but with AGR Points the Price doesnt matter!

You might consider booking the EB to PDX, then catch the Coast Starlight :wub: to Richmond in Calif,(same amount of points/2 Zone Award)IF AGR will let you book it??. ride BART to the San Francisco Airport and fly to CHI from SFO! Gives you another night on the Train and you get the PPC and a Great Crew!Id pass on the Sunset unless you Love Desert scenery and want extra time on the Train! (Its three night with a Layover in SAS between CHI and LAX!!)
 
I concur with those who say the Sunset is only worth the trouble if you feel the need to ride it before it's gone. Otherwise the slow ride, boring scenery, pointless eight hour delays, and thrice-weekly service should be enough to deter most folks. EB seems like a much better option to me. In any case I hope you enjoy your selection.
 
Hey stranger!

So file under "it's a really small world", but the OP was in the dome with Trackwtentynine and I when the topic came up. (full trip report to follow).

Anyhow, "ride it while you can", if that's important to you is my advice. I'd be a little more worried about delays in December up there, but it'd probably be a great trip.

Anyhow, awesome to meet you today!
 
George B said:
blinks said:
Hello Amtrak Unlimited people!

I'm planning to use a bunch of Amtrak miles I have saved up for a 2 night roomette trip across the western united states in December.

I've already done the Southwest Chief and the California Zephyr so now I'm trying to decide between the Sunset Limited and Empire Builder.

The plan is to take a friday off work and fly to LAX/SEA or PDX and take the train to MSY/CHI.

I have heard the scenery is better on the Empire Builder, but in the middle of December I'm slightly concerned about delays and missing my return flight on Sunday from CHI.

Any tips/suggestions?

Thanks!!!

-Blinks
Click to expand...
The Builder. Better service, better equipment, and scenery is more interesting.

The only problem with December is the limited about of daylight cuts down on the scenery you will see. But, the Builder is a great train to ride, and the scenery is just a bonus.

Also, consider going westbound on the train and flying back. That may help ease worries of delays if you build in a few days of layover when you get to SEA or PDX by train. I prefer to arrive/depart PDX instead of SEA, but you can't go wrong with either route. I like Portland better. Their airport is nice, the city is a lot of fun, and going up the Columbia River Gorge is beautiful.
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Being winter and with time change just setting in, you wouldn't be able to see any of the Columbia River Gorge at all. However, I do recommend the EB. (Personally, I think SEA is better to leave from, because you have the dining car, Puget Sound, and with Portland, even after the train does connect up, it's a LONG wlak to the diner... one good thing about Portland is the Met Lounge though)
 
I noticed that you mentioned it would be this winter (December), so to clarify, if you take the Empire Builder, you certainly should only consider an eastbound trip on the Builder.The reason is simple... if you go west on the EB, then you will pass through the Rockies and Marias Pass at night - way after dark, it's not even close. If you travel east, you hit Glacier National Park in the morning, which is perfect, because it would even cover a delay of up to 6 or 8 hours (late afternoon through Marias Pass).

Best bet would be to fly to El Paso and take the Sunset to Wolf Point (15,000 Roomette) and then a 2nd 15K award to go from Wolf Point to wherever...

Although Richmond, CA to Minneapolis (via Coast Starlight/Empire Builder) is only 20K and a very good use of points.
 
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Another reason to take the EB Empire builder...eagle watching near Red WIng, MN ( & all the way south toward LaCrosse, WI).

There are at least a half-dozen nesting pairs of bald eagles who live/fly/fish along the Mississippi near Red WIng, and lots more fly down that way when their native northern waters ice over. (There's open water at or near Red Wing all winter long.)

Best place to see them: The SSL car, looking out the left side toward the river.
 
Wow, thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses! (I'm the OP of this question)

Sounds like the overwhelming verdict is to go with the Builder.

Thanks to all the responses and at the urging of Tracktwentynine and Ryan I've now signed up with AU.

(Great meeting y'all btw!)

Even after extensive discussion with my new friends in the Great Dome on the Cardinal yesterday, I'm still torn about Builder vs. Limited - I would kick myself if the Limited got cancelled before i had a chance to ride it. I was able to snag the Orlando - New Orleans part back in '01 so it'd be great to have done the whole route, even if it's split by a decade!!

Either way, I will be sure to write a report when I'm back.

Cheers,

-sitzplatz17
 
If you're going for a 100% completion rate of the entire LD network then yeah, you might want to check off the Sunset sooner rather than later. It's one of two local trains for me. I've ridden it many times and at this point a substantial portion of the route is rather boring to me. But, on my very first ride I thought it was pretty cool and it's certainly more interesting than taking I-10. Maybe you will enjoy it more than the rest of us currently anticipate. I'll be riding this train at least two or three times myself before the end of the year.
 
sitzplatz17 said:
Wow, thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses! (I'm the OP of this question)

Sounds like the overwhelming verdict is to go with the Builder.

Thanks to all the responses and at the urging of Tracktwentynine and Ryan I've now signed up with AU.

(Great meeting y'all btw!)

Even after extensive discussion with my new friends in the Great Dome on the Cardinal yesterday, I'm still torn about Builder vs. Limited - I would kick myself if the Limited got cancelled before i had a chance to ride it. I was able to snag the Orlando - New Orleans part back in '01 so it'd be great to have done the whole route, even if it's split by a decade!!

Either way, I will be sure to write a report when I'm back.

Cheers,

-sitzplatz17
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It was good meeting you, too Sitzplatz. Welcome Aboard!
 
Texas Sunset said:
If you're going for a 100% completion rate of the entire LD network then yeah, you might want to check off the Sunset sooner rather than later. It's one of two local trains for me. I've ridden it many times and at this point a substantial portion of the route is rather boring to me. But, on my very first ride I thought it was pretty cool and it's certainly more interesting than taking I-10. Maybe you will enjoy it more than the rest of us currently anticipate. I'll be riding this train at least two or three times myself before the end of the year.
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Interesting, since it sounds like you're a veteran of the route do you have a recommendation regarding EB vs. WB on the Limited?

The Builder sounds like a better EB trip...
 
I've ridden both and If you must choose, then it's certainly Eastern Montana vs. West Texas.

In fact: I prefer the EB, but the Sunset Limited has it's charms too.

So my recommendation is:

1.) If you want to have ridden every LD-Train one day, then definitely go for the Sunset Limited

2.) If you just want to have a great trip with nice scenery go for the Empire Builder.
 
sitzplatz17 said:
Interesting, since it sounds like you're a veteran of the route do you have a recommendation regarding EB vs. WB on the Limited? The Builder sounds like a better EB trip.
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With regard to the Sunset Limited's scenery there is not a substantial distinction between the two directions. At least not in my opinion. Although there is some variation in daylight both directions are going to look rather similar from my perspective. If it's on-time the Westbound Sunset Limited (1) easily connects with the Northbound Coast Starlight (14) with no more than a two hour layover. Trying to make a connection between a southbound Starlight (11) and an Eastbound Limited (2) generally requires an overnight stay in LA. So there's that. There are lots of interested ideas for improving the efficiency and effectiveness of the Sunset Limited's schedule, but I don't expect UP will allow most of those plans to ever be implemented. Better to ride it now while you can than wait for Amtrak to get clearance for adjustments that may never come.
 
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Given a choice of the Sunset Limited and the Empire Builder, I'd choose the Builder. When I ride the Empire Builder, I get more of a sense of how that train is part of the communities it serves, and how so many different people come to depend on Amtrak. I'm especially fond of the long stretches through North Dakota and Montana.
 
I rode the Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle (422) recently from LAX to CHI.

For two days, we were in Texas. Except for the people on the train,

I didn't see anyone until we reached SAS, then one Jim Hudson boarded

the train and we had breakfast together from SAS to AUS. During the

time in Texas all I saw was desert and sagebrush. No people, no houses,

no Texas Longhorn cattle, no Oil Wells or Cowboys wearing Ten Gallon Hats!!
 
Shanghai said:
I rode the Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle (422) recently from LAX to CHI.

For two days, we were in Texas. Except for the people on the train,

I didn't see anyone until we reached SAS, then one Jim Hudson boarded

the train and we had breakfast together from SAS to AUS. During the

time in Texas all I saw was desert and sagebrush. No people, no houses,

no Texas Longhorn cattle, no Oil Wells or Cowboys wearing Ten Gallon Hats!
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You didn't see any people or houses or oil wells, or cowboy hats while passing by El Paso, Marfa, Alpine, Marathon, Sanderson, Del Rio, Hondo, La Coste, San Antonio, New Braunfels, San Marcos, Kyle, Buda, Austin, Taylor, Temple, McGregor, Cleburne, Forth Worth, Dallas, Mineola, Longview, Marshall, or Texarkana? Was there some sort of dense state-wide fog going on? Was the train suffering from a fully enclosed advertising wrap? :lol:
 
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