Empire Builder Summer Blues Started Early this year

[montana mike]

Today's #8-still in MN is now over 8 hours late! I don't see any connections being made for this train tonight. :-( And, BOTH #7 and #27 are chugging on their way to SEA and PDX-each running about 5 1/2 hours behind (apparently no bustitutions this time, which will mean that #8 and #28 will start their journeys behind the eight ball very late today as well).

Considering the average EB arrival times have been closer to 4 hours late this entire summer, not 2 hours, the service alert is somewhat inadequate, but at least they finally put something up for EB passengers.

I would bet my BNSF guy here in MT would beg to differ a bit on laying most of the blame on BNSF track construction. A myriad of items have come together to cause these delays with the tracks being just one (heat, Amtrak equipment issues,accidents for example). I reiterate, that BNSF told me that even when the construction is over for the season, the significant increase in overall traffic on this line will still cause delays of at least 1-2 hours (and that is after the Amtrak schedule padding is taken into account). There are just too many trains using this line right now. Hopefully after 2016, when all of the improvements are done, we will see things running more smoothly and closer to on time!

 

[yarrow]

the "service alert" seems totally clueless. 2 hour delays eastbound and no delay westbound according to the advisory! today 7/27 is more than 5 and a half hours late into sea/pdx and 8 is over 7 hours late to chi. whoever is in charge of finally issuing an advisory and to issue what they put out is an imbecile

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

A disaster for EB! 27 just arrived in Portland 6 hours late! 8 is still trying to get into CHI, 7:24 late! The next 7 in Montana is dealing with over 3 hours of delays already and it's getting worse and worse!

 

[montana mike]

What amazes me is that BNSF told Amtrak months ago (last Spring), that this would be happening ALL summer and Fall and yet here we are almost September and just now Amtrak announces there might be 2+ hour delays--when the entire summer has tracked at almost 4 hour average delays into CHI--just what BNSF estimated they would be. Oh, well. It is what it is........

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

What amazes me is that BNSF told Amtrak months ago (last Spring), that this would be happening ALL summer and Fall and yet here we are almost September and just now Amtrak announces there might be 2+ hour delays--when the entire summer has tracked at almost 4 hour average delays into CHI--just what BNSF estimated they would be. Oh, well. It is what it is........

Amtrak may have been fearful of losing passengers and/or PR problems. That's all I can think of. They could have even released a temporary schedule for the summer EB.

 

[jebr]

What amazes me is that BNSF told Amtrak months ago (last Spring), that this would be happening ALL summer and Fall and yet here we are almost September and just now Amtrak announces there might be 2+ hour delays--when the entire summer has tracked at almost 4 hour average delays into CHI--just what BNSF estimated they would be. Oh, well. It is what it is........

Amtrak may have been fearful of losing passengers and/or PR problems. That's all I can think of. They could have even released a temporary schedule for the summer EB.

Maybe, but I would think 4+ hour unannounced delays would be worse than owning up to them, even if they're not the fault of Amtrak.

I still think Amtrak just needs to turn the EB in Spokane. It would help keep the delays to just those in the construction area.

 

[Eric S]

the "service alert" seems totally clueless. 2 hour delays eastbound and no delay westbound according to the advisory! today 7/27 is more than 5 and a half hours late into sea/pdx and 8 is over 7 hours late to chi. whoever is in charge of finally issuing an advisory and to issue what they put out is an imbecile

The service alert does mention both eastbound and westbound delays. However it is really awkwardly worded.

Instead of just saying:

"Largely unaffected are Empire Builder trains westbound from Chicago to Fargo, ND, via St. Paul, and Empire Builder trains eastbound from Seattle and Portland to Shelby, MT, via Spokane."

There probably should have been something saying that westbound trains are suffering significant delays west of Fargo to Seattle/Portland and eastbound trains are suffering significant delays east of Shelby to Chicago.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

What amazes me is that BNSF told Amtrak months ago (last Spring), that this would be happening ALL summer and Fall and yet here we are almost September and just now Amtrak announces there might be 2+ hour delays--when the entire summer has tracked at almost 4 hour average delays into CHI--just what BNSF estimated they would be. Oh, well. It is what it is........

Amtrak may have been fearful of losing passengers and/or PR problems. That's all I can think of. They could have even released a temporary schedule for the summer EB.

Maybe, but I would think 4+ hour unannounced delays would be worse than owning up to them, even if they're not the fault of Amtrak.

I still think Amtrak just needs to turn the EB in Spokane. It would help keep the delays to just those in the construction area.

Maybe SPK isn't a terrible idea, but it would probably mean even less loads. And no one outside the railfan community has really made a point about the massive delays, sure there's individual complaints, but no real combined publication against the delays.

 

[gn2276]

The problem turning the train in SPK is the Mechanical has to drive all the way to SPK to work the train and if there is any major parts wrong with the train they would not have the parts with them, that is why if there is alot wrong with the train they bring it all the way into Seattle.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The problem turning the train in SPK is the Mechanical has to drive all the way to SPK to work the train and if there is any major parts wrong with the train they would not have the parts with them, that is why if there is alot wrong with the train they bring it all the way into Seattle.

That sure is a problem because the mechanics have to rest after getting to SPK before they can get to work on the train and by the time they get back to SEA they can't work the Cascades in time.

Edit: or the CS, for that matter.

 

[Empire Builder Tracker]

Empire Builder 8 lost almost 3 hours between Devils Lake & Grand Forks.

 

[montana mike]

Another day of missed connections in CHI.

:-(

 

[yarrow]

Oh, well. It is what it is........

and it is administrative incompetence from smilin' joe on down

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Empire Builder 8 lost almost 3 hours between Devils Lake & Grand Forks.

They always lose a lot of time on that section/ The tracks there are in terrbile condtion and need repairs. BNSF should fix them for the sake of frieght trains up to Winnipeg.

Six hours late for the 8 into CHI today. The following trains are also extensively delayed:

7 (30)

8 (30)

5 (30)

3 (30)

Looks like problems across the board ofr Amtrak. The CZ ans SWC are also trying to deal with issues, plus a bunch of yellow in the upper-Northeast.

 

[AlanB]

They could have even released a temporary schedule for the summer EB.

No they couldn't have. Amtrak can't just up and change the schedule on its own. Amtrak would have to renegotiate any schedule change with BNSF, CP, & METRA. And that is easier said than done. Furthermore, it's unlikely that all would even agree to a temporary change. If they managed to get any agreement, it would end up being permanent.

 

[montana mike]

I agree--that makes sense. I do know full well how difficult it would be to tinker with the scheduling. Nevertheless, it was frustrating, since Amtrak was informed by BNSF officials last Spring, as my BNSF contacts have stated, that these delays would be not just this summer, but continuing at various levels for at least the next several years due to the massive infrastructure improvement efforts by BNSF (they even nailed the estimated amount of delays almost exactly-a little bit scary really. I guess they know their business). The continuing increase in BNSF traffic on the Hi-Line also is a factor causing additional delays and do not generally reflect seasonal issues. Having experienced an entire summer of EBs regularly being 4-5 even 6 hours late, perhaps Amtrak management felt a schedule adjustment to reflect such large delays would be just too challenging to implement.

Maybe Amtrak figures they can deal with the 2 hour delays during the December thru April timeframes and just put out service advisories the rest of the year when active track efforts are underway? I travel the EB and other LD trains frequently and am now building in the likelihood of an overnight stay in CHI-town when my connection is less than 3 hours for any construction season trips. For the winter, except for the CL, I should be able to make my other LD connections almost all of the time.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Gee if Amtrak wants to add a train to a route, they have to study the impact, and pay for improvements to the host railroad, before rolling a wheel.

It seem the host railroad can run all the trains they want, before making any improvements to the line. Sure they own it, but in this case it is impacting Amtrak trains. One thinks the host should do a study, and make improvements before addition traffic is added. Just like they require Amtrak to do.

You can do a slot study once and then fill trains, before adding track. This way you know the point of crossing between fluid and parking lot.

Also slow orders after work is really out-dated. New machine that can leave the track speed at 90 mph right after the tamper / ballast crew go by. Ok it designed for track that maintain for 150 mph or greater, but why not.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Gee if Amtrak wants to add a train to a route, they have to study the impact, and pay for improvements to the host railroad, before rolling a wheel.
It seem the host railroad can run all the trains they want, before making any improvements to the line. Sure they own it, but in this case it is impacting Amtrak trains. One thinks the host should do a study, and make improvements before addition traffic is added. Just like they require Amtrak to do.

You can do a slot study once and then fill trains, before adding track. This way you know the point of crossing between fluid and parking lot.

Also slow orders after work is really out-dated. New machine that can leave the track speed at 90 mph right after the tamper / ballast crew go by. Ok it designed for track that maintain for 150 mph or greater, but why not.

I'm sure they have done studies for the sake of profit. The maintainence and track work right now is going to directly improve the rail congestion on the Great Northern Line. 8 (31) is actually doing decently well, only 42 minutes late out of Glasgow-GGW. It will still lose time on the GFK-FAR over the night, but not too bad.

 

[montana mike]

#8 arrived in CHI 4 hours and 34 minutes late today, a little disappointing, since BNSF did cut back on some of their construction efforts this weekend. Looking at the past week, delays ranged from 3 to over 7 hours behind schedule into CHI. Hopefully #8 plugging away thru MT and ND tonight (now just under an hour behind) will lose less than 3 hours overnight, so perhaps we have a good shot at an Empire Builder being between 2 and 3 hours late tomorrow evening as it pulls into Chicago!!

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

At least 7 (31) is making up time and could arrive into SEA less than 2 hours late. That is a pretty good improvement. The eastbound trains seem to be doing worse than westbound.

 

[ERH]

I was scheduled Sea to Chi to Sea starting September 25th from Sea and September 30th from Chi. Cost about $1400 in a roomette but the chance to relax and enjoy was going to be worth it. After seeing the delays I cancelled the east bound (at a penalty. The cost to rebook to a day earlier was going to be several hundred dollars and an additional hotel night. Incidentally, because I paid partially in cash and partially by credit Card it takes six weeks to get a refund...absolutely incompetent BS) ) because it would very possibly not get me to Chicago in time for events i had to attend. At this point the stress of worrying about getting back home, I live a couple of hours from Seattle, in time for a reasonable night's sleep before an important early breakfast meeting the next day seems problematic.

Amtrak has screwed this all up so badly they are losing my support and certainly my future travel. A company simply cannot perform like the EB has so consistentlythis summer and act like the customer doesn't need to be considered. Regardless of the source of the problem some kind of adjustment or rescheduling has to be done. it feels like Amtrak is not even trying to communicate. In fact, if not for this forum it would be extremely dificult to anticipate that might be any problems at all if one depended on Amtrak.

Thanks for letting me vent. Customers should not have to tolerate what we do from Amtrak on the EB now.

 

[yarrow]

I was scheduled Sea to Chi to Sea starting September 25th from Sea and September 30th from Chi. Cost about $1400 in a roomette but the chance to relax and enjoy was going to be worth it. After seeing the delays I cancelled the east bound (at a penalty. The cost to rebook to a day earlier was going to be several hundred dollars and an additional hotel night. Incidentally, because I paid partially in cash and partially by credit Card it takes six weeks to get a refund...absolutely incompetent BS) ) because it would very possibly not get me to Chicago in time for events i had to attend. At this point the stress of worrying about getting back home, I live a couple of hours from Seattle, in time for a reasonable night's sleep before an important early breakfast meeting the next day seems problematic.
Amtrak has screwed this all up so badly they are losing my support and certainly my future travel. A company simply cannot perform like the EB has so consistentlythis summer and act like the customer doesn't need to be considered. Regardless of the source of the problem some kind of adjustment or rescheduling has to be done. it feels like Amtrak is not even trying to communicate. In fact, if not for this forum it would be extremely dificult to anticipate that might be any problems at all if one depended on Amtrak.

Thanks for letting me vent. Customers should not have to tolerate what we do from Amtrak on the EB now.

you are correct, customers should not have to tolerate what amtrak is giving us on the eb either this summer or last. i have wondered what those non-railfans who just decided to drop the cash and take amtrak have been thinking. i can't see amtrak's long distance trains surviving much longer and, though i love the train, i am not sure how much of a loss it would be

 

[gn2276]

Most of the on-time performance on the EB route is not Amtraks fault as most of the delays have been due to BNSF track work upgrades that when done will make on-time performance better. Also this route is also subject to delays due to tempeture which when it is very hot out is done for the safty of the train.

 

[FreeskierInVT]

Most of the on-time performance on the EB route is not Amtraks fault as most of the delays have been due to BNSF track work upgrades that when done will make on-time performance better. Also this route is also subject to delays due to tempeture which when it is very hot out is done for the safty of the train.

The average customer taking Amtrak for the first time surely wouldn't understand this, and would likely forget about ever taking a train again. Being on a train that's 7+ hours late would be tough for even me to swallow. even though I love taking the train.

 

[montana mike]

Sorry to say this, but even with a reduced construction schedule this weekend #8 is pulling into CHI about 3 hours late, so the primary cause for the delays, at least this weekend was not BNSF construction. And it wasn't the heat either--temps were delightful in the 60's and 70's thruout ND and MN. As I said before, aside the construction, the number of trains now on the hi-line are causing everything to slow down. I travel this route regularly and can attest to the increase in BNSF traffic, especially Intermodal and Energy related trains. Yes, in a couple of years when all of this is work is done BNSF believes traffic will move much better, but that doesn't help matters for current travelers on this route and there is no easy fix or answer. It's just going to be slow for some time to come.