Empire Builder flood disruptions

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anir dendroica

OBS Chief
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I see all #7/#8 trains are in "service disruption" status once again after a few weeks of trouble-free operations. Per a reliable source on the Empire Builder Yahoo group, high water between Rugby and Minot will force a re-route between Fargo and Minot on the Surrey cutoff. Depending on what happens with Devils Lake, this could be permanent - time will tell if Rugby, Devils Lake, and Grand Forks saw their last Amtrak train this morning.

#7(7) left Rugby this morning but never reported into Minot, so I'm wondering if that train got stuck on the wrong side of the high water...

Mark
 
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#7(07) is on its way back to Fargo, ND to take the KO sub to Minot. Currently estimated into Minot, ND about 17 or 18 hours late.
 
anir dendroica said:
I see all #7/#8 trains are in "service disruption" status once again after a few weeks of trouble-free operations. Rumor (i.e. the Empire Builder Yahoo group) has it that high water between Rugby and Minot will force a re-route between Fargo and Minot on the Surrey cutoff. Depending on what happens with Devils Lake, this could be permanent - time will tell if Rugby, Devils Lake, and Grand Forks saw their last Amtrak train this morning.

#7(7) left Rugby this morning but never reported into Minot, so I'm wondering if that train got stuck on the wrong side of the high water...

Mark
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Where do you get permanent out of this???
 
This water will recede, since it's the Mouse River. If Devil's Lake rises enough this spring, though, the line between Minot and Grand Forks might never be reopened because the tracks will be flooded near Church's Ferry, which is east of Rugby. Same spring thaw, same railroad line, but two different watersheds.

I'm probably the only person who would have liked to have been on this #7, probably the longest Amtrak trip through North Dakota ever. No accounting for taste, since most people seem to want to cross the Great Plains as fast as possible.
 
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New Rockford has supposedly set up a station for Amtrak, just waiting for the inevitable.
 
bretton88 said:
New Rockford has supposedly set up a station for Amtrak, just waiting for the inevitable.
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New Rockford has actually constructed a station? Or, as has been reported in the past, New Rockford has been mentioned as a possible/likely stop if/when the Empire Builder is permanently re-routed?
 
Eric S said:
bretton88 said:
New Rockford has supposedly set up a station for Amtrak, just waiting for the inevitable.
Click to expand...
New Rockford has actually constructed a station? Or, as has been reported in the past, New Rockford has been mentioned as a possible/likely stop if/when the Empire Builder is permanently re-routed?
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I imagine that they're planning to rehab the station in the background of this photo. I've not been in New Rockford in many a year, but I dimly remember it still standing.

Edit: According to this Web site "New Rockford: The passenger railroad station originally built by the GN here remains."
 
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I believe the old GN depot in New Rockford is still standing, but has been moved to their Steam

Threshers park as part of a pioneer building display.....
 
anir dendroica said:
I see all #7/#8 trains are in "service disruption" status once again after a few weeks of trouble-free operations. Per a reliable source on the Empire Builder Yahoo group, high water between Rugby and Minot will force a re-route between Fargo and Minot on the Surrey cutoff. Depending on what happens with Devils Lake, this could be permanent - time will tell if Rugby, Devils Lake, and Grand Forks saw their last Amtrak train this morning.

#7(7) left Rugby this morning but never reported into Minot, so I'm wondering if that train got stuck on the wrong side of the high water...

Mark
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Here is an article: http://www.wdaz.com/event/article/id/6866/
 
You are right, I was wrong to rely on my increasingly foggy memory. According to the New Rockford paper, they plan to build a new station if the Empire Builder is rerouted.
 
TraneMan said:
It's not sounding pretty right now on that train.. A guy posted on FB and he's pretty upset.
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I just read all the posts. Poor Claude is having a rough time. Complaining that the conductor wouldn't let him off the train when it stopped 3 miles short of Minot, no free food, why didn't Amtrak plan ahead for the flooding, blah, blah, blah. I feel soory for him, but Amtrak didn't cause the flooding. They are just trying to get him safely to his destination. Also, he doesn't seem to understand that the freight company owns the track and pretty much tells Amtrak when and where to stop or detour.

I'd love to be on that train for the extra train-time and the adventure. But I'd hate to be sitting next to Claude!
 
Trainmans daughter said:
TraneMan said:
It's not sounding pretty right now on that train.. A guy posted on FB and he's pretty upset.
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I just read all the posts. Poor Claude is having a rough time. Complaining that the conductor wouldn't let him off the train when it stopped 3 miles short of Minot, no free food, why didn't Amtrak plan ahead for the flooding, blah, blah, blah. I feel soory for him, but Amtrak didn't cause the flooding. They are just trying to get him safely to his destination. Also, he doesn't seem to understand that the freight company owns the track and pretty much tells Amtrak when and where to stop or detour.

I'd love to be on that train for the extra train-time and the adventure. But I'd hate to be sitting next to Claude!
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Yeah, I wouldn't mind the extra time... and wouldn't want to be next to him.
 
I'm currently on the 7-8 train, and there is some interesting radio traffic. Apparently, there will soon be an issue with the Amtrak engineers hours. However, there is a BNSF engineer aboard (picked up during a BNSF crew swap, I believe), with enough hours remaining to allow him to get the train further along, to a better stop....rather than stopping the Amtrak cold, and trucking out a new Amtrak engineer. The dispatcher and conductors are going through the rule books, and apparently a BNSF engineer can operate the Amtrak engine/equipment under the direct supervision of an Amtrak engineer.

Their question is - does that supervising Amtrak engineer also need to be within their hour limit? The rule book apparently doesn't spell that contingency out, so they are asking for a "higher up" ruling.

From the tone of the conversation, it appears that the BNSF dispatcher and Amtrak really want to work out a solution to the delays, and not hold up the Amtrak any longer than necessary.

Just an observation.

Brad.
 
Interesting, I don't think Claude is being unreasonable in his posts on the amtrak FB page. What is the standard protocol in terms of providing food for coach pax with very long delays? I can sort of see his point in that what was supposed to be a 9 hour train ride has now turned into a 32 hour ordeal. What if he didn't bring any food or money because he thought he could go nine hours without eating? It is also very frustrating when the train stops just short of a station so that trapped pax could choose to disembark early if they wanted.
 
Cross-posted from the Empire Builder Yahoo group:

Update:
Train 7-7 that was stopped by high water near Norwich, and ran all the way back

to Grand Forks and Fargo this morning is by Selz, ND, 62 miles east of Minot, at

804 AM, which means should Amtrak elect to run the train west of there, it will

be over 24 hours late departing. The train arrived back in Fargo about 900 PM

April 8. But these types of detour moves are always subject to delays, and of

course, there are crew issues. Also, the line through New Rockford was

temporarily out of service yesterday due to high water, too, because of plugged

culvert on a nearly county road. This morning there are 26 trains fighting

their way across BNSF's KO subdivision (Dilworth, MN to Minot).

Train 8-7 arrived Minot about 4 hours late last night. Its lateness was due

mostly to an encounter with a disabled coal train around Bonners Ferry, Idaho;

it departed Minot at 400 AM, about 6 hours late, so expect it to be much later

into the Twin Cities with the traffic and slow track conditions Spring in this

area always brings.

Train 7-8 is fighting is way west on the KO subdivision; about 77 minutes late

into Fargo, by Nolan 610 AM.

Train 8-8 is due into Whitefish Saturday morning about 30 minutes late.

Since the equipment for trains 8-9 and 28-9 is still in North Dakota (train

7/27-7), these trains have been annulled.

--Mark Meyer
Click to expand...
 
amamba said:
Interesting, I don't think Claude is being unreasonable in his posts on the amtrak FB page. What is the standard protocol in terms of providing food for coach pax with very long delays? I can sort of see his point in that what was supposed to be a 9 hour train ride has now turned into a 32 hour ordeal. What if he didn't bring any food or money because he thought he could go nine hours without eating? It is also very frustrating when the train stops just short of a station so that trapped pax could choose to disembark early if they wanted.
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I was told by a crew member that over 4 hours late (IRC) you get free emergency snacks and after 6 hours they break out the free dinty moore beef stew but my brain is a little furry today!

i was bussed twice on the EB in the past few months.....between Whitefish and Havre and Havre and Minot......we got a free sandwich after 10 hours (5 hours on the bs from Whitefish, hen 5 hours in the Havre station...YIKES) but otherwise, it would have been 10 hours without easy access to food. (ye there is food in Havre but that day was very messy, and not many people wanted to walk...)

IMO, at that time, the EB was having service disruptions so often that Amtrak should have been better able to deal with things like food for the passengers. Yes weather and freight trains are not under their control, but the reaction TO the situation is fully under their control. However, we got to where we were going and I did call and got a very nice travel voucher ......my issue was more about the actual lack of organization and the poor attitude of the sleeper attendant....
 
No news in the past couple of days. One report that there is a sign at the St. Paul (MN) station stating no service west of St. Paul until further notice. Anyone have better information?
 
Also, is there any truth to the rumor being reported over at TrainOrders.com that Amtrak has agreed to a permanent re-routing of the Builder via the Surrey Cutoff ?
 
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