Easy question - what does this mean? A ticket means a seat, right?

[BALtoNYPtraveler]

I have seen this in the fine print in several places: "Seating is limited; seats may not be available on all trains at all times."

I was under the impression that they do not sell more tickets than they have seats. I thought that making a reservation means purchasing a ticket ahead of time which means you will have a place to sit down on the train.

What am I missing?

For what it's worth, I saw it here, under the "terms and conditions":

http://www.amtrak.com/NERWinterSale

 

[Thirdrail7]

When that disclaimer appears during a special fare, I've always taken that to mean that seating for that particular fare is limited and seats for that fare may not be available on all trains at all times.

I've never taken it to mean the standard disclaimer about shortage of equipment, etc.

That being said, a ticket "should" mean a seat. However, suppose you're en route and a car is shopped out of line. That would result in a shortage of seats.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

I have been on a "sold out" Regional train, and I had to stand. So did like 100 others.

 

[willem]

I have heard (probably here at Amtrak Unlimited) that Amtrak will not sell more tickets specifically for a train than there are seats on the train. However, there are tickets sold (for example, 10 ride passes) that are good on a train but were not sold specifically for that train. Thus it is possible that there might be more riders than there are seats.

 

[Karl1459]

I have been on a Coast Starlight with standing room only Portland to Eugene. Everyone had seats south of there. My guess is that agents have some leeway to oversell a train for a short day trip where people can fill the lounge car.

 

[BCL]

There are monthly and other multi-ride passes that are sold and not specifically accounted for individual trains. However, I'd think that some issues could be from seat hogs or people who simply don't want to move to another car.

I've heard of some people who bought monthlies just to get around sold out reserved trains. It did help a bit when some routes allowed for the multi-ride passes to be shared (i.e. a group of 5 could use a 10-ride pass for a round trip).

 

[Hal]

I have heard (probably here at Amtrak Unlimited) that Amtrak will not sell more tickets specifically for a train than there are seats on the train. However, there are tickets sold (for example, 10 ride passes) that are good on a train but were not sold specifically for that train. Thus it is possible that there might be more riders than there are seats.

Amtrak will oversell reserved coach seats on Northeast Regional and Acela Business Class. They expect a certain number of no shows based on past ridership. They won't oversell Acela First Class or Northeast Regional Business Class.

 

[saxman]

To answer your specific question, that means that the discount fare will not be available on all trains. If you do get the discount fare, you'll get a seat, as it's a reserved train.

 

[BALtoNYPtraveler]

Thanks for the answers, even if some of them contradicted the others a little bit (to the best of my understanding.) I'm not really worried about it - I could stand if I had to, but I have never seen a situation where people had to stand. (I've only taken a few rides recently, though.) Actually, I think I'd be annoyed if I paid a lot for a ticket and had to stand for more than a half hour or so.

The worst I've seen was my most recent trip when no doubles were available upon boarding (southbound) in New York and people had to ask singles spread out over two seats for the use of the seat next to them. I noticed that many people were too shy to ask for this and forced the conductors to find seats for them. I simply asked a person if I could sit down, and instead of answering, she moved her foot off the other seat in reply. I would have said, "Of course" or something, but I guess manners are not universal. She was probably a teenager, now that I think of it, so I'll give her a break on that basis. But people traveling alone should realize that they paid for only one seat, and if they get to spread out over two, they are lucky - it's not a right. I realize I got on a different topic here. I wanted to make the thread more interesting. Anyone else have stories of truculent seatmates who clearly preferred not to be invaded with your company?

 

[BCL]

But people traveling alone should realize that they paid for only one seat, and if they get to spread out over two, they are lucky - it's not a right. I realize I got on a different topic here. I wanted to make the thread more interesting. Anyone else have stories of truculent seatmates who clearly preferred not to be invaded with your company?

On Capitol Corridor I've seen this one guy who spreads a jacket across two seats and a bag on the seat next to him. So he manages to save an entire table for four for just himself.

 

[Lonestar648]

The airlines typically sell as much as 20% over capacity in order to have each aircraft as close to capacity as possible. No shows could be cancelled flights, passengers changing plans and rescheduling, and some who just don't show and lose their fare. Amtrak try's to limited this oversell as much as possible, but on the NEC and some other coach runs, multi-ride and frequent no shows cause over crowding. Amtrak does try to get you to your destination when over crowded where my experience with airlines has been, first volunteers to fly another day, or someone is selected to fly another day and it may not be tomorrow, might be a day or two.

 

[BALtoNYPtraveler]

That's a good story, BCL. I have a friend in Chicago who has witnessed that behavior, but not on Amtrak, just on a commuter train. He took a pic of the person, posted it on twitter, and labeled the offender a [expletive deleted.]

:giggle:

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

I have heard (probably here at Amtrak Unlimited) that Amtrak will not sell more tickets specifically for a train than there are seats on the train. However, there are tickets sold (for example, 10 ride passes) that are good on a train but were not sold specifically for that train. Thus it is possible that there might be more riders than there are seats.

Amtrak will oversell reserved coach seats on Northeast Regional and Acela Business Class. They expect a certain number of no shows based on past ridership. They won't oversell Acela First Class or Northeast Regional Business Class.

One would think that Amtrak itself would be aware that there are customers who have monthly and other multi-ride passes, and actually undersell trains. For example, when Amtrak knows a certain train usually has around 100 passengers using monthly and other multi-ride passes, that they should stop selling regular tickets when they reach max capacity minus 100. Selling out a train to max capacity so that it ends up with 100 over capacity is just plain incompetency.

 

[Hal]

I have heard (probably here at Amtrak Unlimited) that Amtrak will not sell more tickets specifically for a train than there are seats on the train. However, there are tickets sold (for example, 10 ride passes) that are good on a train but were not sold specifically for that train. Thus it is possible that there might be more riders than there are seats.

Amtrak will oversell reserved coach seats on Northeast Regional and Acela Business Class. They expect a certain number of no shows based on past ridership. They won't oversell Acela First Class or Northeast Regional Business Class.

One would think that Amtrak itself would be aware that there are customers who have monthly and other multi-ride passes, and actually undersell trains. For example, when Amtrak knows a certain train usually has around 100 passengers using monthly and other multi-ride passes, that they should stop selling regular tickets when they reach max capacity minus 100. Selling out a train to max capacity so that it ends up with 100 over capacity is just plain incompetency.

They do take into account passengers using multi ride tickets. And the oversell is no where near 100. It is a few percent of capacity and usually does not end up over capacity. In other words the oversell works most of the time.

By the way the monthly and monthly ride tickets are unreserved and not guaranteed seats. Those riders are supposed to give up the seats if a passenger with a reserved tickets need them.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I wanted to make the thread more interesting. Anyone else have stories of truculent seatmates who clearly preferred not to be invaded with your company?

Here is post of something I encountered.

I recently watched a passenger pour her large coffee directly on the seat next to her. Then she proceeded to tell everyone that they probably didn't want to sit next to her since the seat was wet and there was a leak.

After a while, I had enough so I sat next to her. She was quite shocked. Too bad it was in the quiet car because I would have surely attempted to get on her nerves by having some sort of ludicrous conversation.

I suppose you could call her move "passive aggressive," because when I sat next to her, she kind of pouted in her computer.

 

[BCL]

I've told this story, but I saw the opposite the one time I rode New Jersey Transit from Trenton to NYP. I was supposed to be with my wife and kid, but that didn't happen for some odd reason I won't get into. That was also the ride where I overheard someone commenting about an Amtrak train passing us on the inside track ("That's the rich people train.").

This train was packed and the conductors were making sure that seats got filled. One woman was standing and looking kind of uncomfortable. One conductor suggested that she take an empty seat that happened to be next to a clean cut guy, reasonably well-dressed, and who looked like he was a college student. He wasn't hogging a seat, but then pulled his stuff in to make sure there was enough room for her to sit down. Her response was kind of bizarre.

I DON'T KNOW THIS GUY!

Then she walked away to another car. I looked at the guy who she refused to sit next to, and asked exactly what happened. He just shrugged his shoulders.

 

[neroden]

I've seen an oversold Lake Shore Limited. The extra passengers were a small number; they were all given seats in the lounge car until seats became available in other cars.

 

[Montreal Ltd]

I have seen the CL pick up LSL passengers when both trains are running late to CHI. Same if it is the LSL getting ahead of CL. Passengers with connection do get priority.

 

[seat38a]

Amtrak really needs to enforce the 10 ride, monthly, Metrolink monthly pass riders. ESPECIALLY Metrolink monthly pass holders. Why should someone who pays for an Amtrak ticket, which is significantly higher in cost, have to stand because of commuter fare riders. I personally, think when they give out the seat checks, they add some sort of mark on the seat checks, and have them stand when there are no seats for Amtrak ticket holders.

 

[BCL]

Amtrak really needs to enforce the 10 ride, monthly, Metrolink monthly pass riders. ESPECIALLY Metrolink monthly pass holders. Why should someone who pays for an Amtrak ticket, which is significantly higher in cost, have to stand because of commuter fare riders. I personally, think when they give out the seat checks, they add some sort of mark on the seat checks, and have them stand when there are no seats for Amtrak ticket holders.

I believe the policy mentioned was for reserved trains, but where one can still ride on a multi-ride ticket such as a monthly without having to reserve for a specific train. I've looked it up, and it is possible to get 10-ride tickets for endpoints that are only served by trains like the San Joaquin, which is always reserved. The Downeaster is described as a "reserved service", but the caveat they give is that "Multi-Ride Passes are valid for unreserved coach travel only".

http://www.amtrakdowneaster.com/tickets

http://www.amtrakdowneaster.com/multi-ride-passes

I'd be surprised if there's any policy distinction between ticket types for any unreserved coach. And where would your proposal stop? Maybe a priority schedule based on price? 1) Flexible 2) Value 3) AAA/NARP discounts 4) multi-ride 5) Shared service (like Metrolink's Rail 2 Rail or COASTER) 6) Child/senior 7) Fare specials 8) AGR redemptions.

Heck - COASTER seems to have one heck of a deal too. I looked up SAN-OSD and it's $18 on the Surfliner, but COASTER charges this as a 3-zone for $5.50, which the Surfliner will accept for 3 specific trains in each direction. Seems like a good deal to me.

However, there is nothing I can find in Amtrak's policies that states that passes or Metrolink pass holders have lower priority for seats on the Surfliner. Nothing on Metrolink's website and nothing in Amtrak's unreserved train policy that sets a distinction.

http://www.amtrak.com/onboard-the-train-seating-accommodations

Unless specific seats are assigned, seating is on a first-come, first-served basis. On unreserved trains, there are no guaranteed seats.

 

[seat38a]

Amtrak really needs to enforce the 10 ride, monthly, Metrolink monthly pass riders. ESPECIALLY Metrolink monthly pass holders. Why should someone who pays for an Amtrak ticket, which is significantly higher in cost, have to stand because of commuter fare riders. I personally, think when they give out the seat checks, they add some sort of mark on the seat checks, and have them stand when there are no seats for Amtrak ticket holders.

I believe the policy mentioned was for reserved trains, but where one can still ride on a multi-ride ticket such as a monthly without having to reserve for a specific train. I've looked it up, and it is possible to get 10-ride tickets for endpoints that are only served by trains like the San Joaquin, which is always reserved. The Downeaster is described as a "reserved service", but the caveat they give is that "Multi-Ride Passes are valid for unreserved coach travel only".

http://www.amtrakdowneaster.com/tickets

http://www.amtrakdowneaster.com/multi-ride-passes

I'd be surprised if there's any policy distinction between ticket types for any unreserved coach. And where would your proposal stop? Maybe a priority schedule based on price? 1) Flexible 2) Value 3) AAA/NARP discounts 4) multi-ride 5) Shared service (like Metrolink's Rail 2 Rail or COASTER) 6) Child/senior 7) Fare specials 8) AGR redemptions.

Heck - COASTER seems to have one heck of a deal too. I looked up SAN-OSD and it's $18 on the Surfliner, but COASTER charges this as a 3-zone for $5.50, which the Surfliner will accept for 3 specific trains in each direction. Seems like a good deal to me.

However, there is nothing I can find in Amtrak's policies that states that passes or Metrolink pass holders have lower priority for seats on the Surfliner. Nothing on Metrolink's website and nothing in Amtrak's unreserved train policy that sets a distinction.

http://www.amtrak.com/onboard-the-train-seating-accommodations

Unless specific seats are assigned, seating is on a first-come, first-served basis. On unreserved trains, there are no guaranteed seats.

What I'm saying, is they should be given a lower priority. Why should I or someone else who pays an Amtrak fare, have to stand because of a Coaster / Metrolink rider who paid a fraction of the cost? As you have mentioned, we are NOT talking about a dollar or two difference here.

 

[BCL]

What I'm saying, is they should be given a lower priority. Why should I or someone else who pays an Amtrak fare, have to stand because of a Coaster / Metrolink rider who paid a fraction of the cost? As you have mentioned, we are NOT talking about a dollar or two difference here.

Doesn't the agreement go both ways? Wouldn't a Surfliner pass holder need to stand on Metrolink? It wouldn't be a matter of cost, but placing a higher priority on your own customers.

As the rules exist on all unreserved Amtrak services, a seat is first-come, first-served with seats not guaranteed. Conductors having to decide who to remove from seats is going to lead to angry passengers. As it stands, it's a rare thing even on reserved trains.

 

[seat38a]

What I'm saying, is they should be given a lower priority. Why should I or someone else who pays an Amtrak fare, have to stand because of a Coaster / Metrolink rider who paid a fraction of the cost? As you have mentioned, we are NOT talking about a dollar or two difference here.

Doesn't the agreement go both ways? Wouldn't a Surfliner pass holder need to stand on Metrolink? It wouldn't be a matter of cost, but placing a higher priority on your own customers.

As the rules exist on all unreserved Amtrak services, a seat is first-come, first-served with seats not guaranteed. Conductors having to decide who to remove from seats is going to lead to angry passengers. As it stands, it's a rare thing even on reserved trains.

Yeah but why would anyone in their right mind buy a Surfliner pass for 2 to 3 times the price, if Metrolink already goes there? In theory its possible, but unless you got a lot of money to blow, I doubt anyone is going to buy a pass for 2x the money and decide to ride Metrolink. The problem on the Surfliner is that Metrolink pass holder clog up the train. I've discussed this with the train crew before. Even though Metrolink will depart 10 min early, they will wait for the Surfliner because its more comfortable and also because they serve up booze.

Especially on the 7 series train, its a daily thing down here in SoCal. According to the train crew, there are plenty of people who also try to pull the "I didn't know" BS and trying to board with a single day Metrolink ticket.

The ultimate point, is Amtrak people pay A LOT more and should not be forced to stand vs someone with a Metrolink / Coaster ticket all decide to board for a better ride.

 

[BCL]

What I'm saying, is they should be given a lower priority. Why should I or someone else who pays an Amtrak fare, have to stand because of a Coaster / Metrolink rider who paid a fraction of the cost? As you have mentioned, we are NOT talking about a dollar or two difference here.

Doesn't the agreement go both ways? Wouldn't a Surfliner pass holder need to stand on Metrolink? It wouldn't be a matter of cost, but placing a higher priority on your own customers.

As the rules exist on all unreserved Amtrak services, a seat is first-come, first-served with seats not guaranteed. Conductors having to decide who to remove from seats is going to lead to angry passengers. As it stands, it's a rare thing even on reserved trains.

Yeah but why would anyone in their right mind buy a Surfliner pass for 2 to 3 times the price, if Metrolink already goes there? In theory its possible, but unless you got a lot of money to blow, I doubt anyone is going to buy a pass for 2x the money and decide to ride Metrolink. The problem on the Surfliner is that Metrolink pass holder clog up the train. I've discussed this with the train crew before. Even though Metrolink will depart 10 min early, they will wait for the Surfliner because its more comfortable and also because they serve up booze.
Especially on the 7 series train, its a daily thing down here in SoCal. According to the train crew, there are plenty of people who also try to pull the "I didn't know" BS and trying to board with a single day Metrolink ticket.

The ultimate point, is Amtrak people pay A LOT more and should not be forced to stand vs someone with a Metrolink / Coaster ticket all decide to board for a better ride.

Isn't it up to LOSSAN to figure that out? But until they figure it's not worth it, then that's just another passenger riding the train to me.

Certainly a Surfliner pass holder has a right to access to seats on an equal basis. That's a loyal customer.