"Drug" searches on my Amtrak round trip - racial profiling?

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BigRedEO

Service Attendant
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
165
Location
Chagrin Falls, OH
Just got back a little over a week ago from a round-trip, CLE to LAX and back.

I took the Texas Eagle out and the Southwest Chief back. Roomettes both ways. When boarding in Chicago, there was a mix-up in the room across from me. I rode out to the train with an elderly woman via the Redcap. She had a ticket for the room across from me. But when we got in the car, there was a black man, probably in his 30s, in the room. I recommended they ask the SCA to get the conductor, because I saw both their tickets and they both looked legit.

The gentleman ended up staying in the room and the lady was put in another Roomette.

The next morning in Longview, TX, I came up from the shower and was stopped at the top of the stairs by a guy in plainclothes who asked where I was going. Looked down the hall to see two other plainclothes guys frisking the guy across from me. I told him my Roomette number and was told I had to wait. After frisking the guy, they pretty much tossed his Roomette. When I was finally let back in, I looked out the window and saw a uniformed cop with a German Shepherd. The gentleman across from me said he was told they were "randomly" searching several rooms/people on the train. I looked out the window and said, "Well they're leaving now."

The man said, "You're kidding me? I'm the ONLY one they searched?"

He ran down to the lower door and I could actually hear him yelling, "Are you kidding me? You said you were randomly searching the train and I'm the ONLY one you search?? Is it because I'm a single black man in a First Class Car?" They ignored him and got in their cars.

The gentleman told me they knew his name, so Amtrak had to give the name to the guys doing the searching. He said they had the drug-sniffing dog go into his Roomette first before frisking him.

On the SWC on the way back, there was a young (probably in his 20s) Hispanic kid. Talked to him for a while, got his name, very well spoken, on his way to Kansas City, his first time on a train. I let him know a few things about the train and what to expect. We got into Albuquerque about an hour late. I ran into the station to use the ATM. Took some pics from the platform and my room, when another plainclothes guy stops outside my open door and says "Hey, how you doin'?" and knocks on the door of the Roomette across from me.

He identifies himself as a cop, knows the kid's first name, asks how he's doing and the kid answers back in his well-spoken English, but after a couple sentences, the cop stops him and asks, "Habla Espanol?" He then proceeded to speak only in Spanish to the kid, even when the kid would speak in English. Then another plainclothes (alleged) cop shows up and they end up frisking him and tossing his Roomette as well.

I found the whole thing very unsettling. It seemed pretty much that the cop purposely spoke Spanish hoping I wouldn't understand that this kid's rights were being violated.

So I have to ask, has this suddenly become standard procedure on Amtrak trains? And what rights do passengers have? Can they refuse having their room and their person searched? Having been on the platform before and seeing these guys enter the train, it was very obvious they only searched this kid's room. And once again they knew his name, so it seemed as if Amtrak had provided it to them. Would I be tossed off a train if I refused to have my person or room searched without a warrant? Or is there some implicit contract when purchasing a ticket?

Quite the interesting trip, including someone dying on the train overnight somewhere in Kansas and my getting rather sick from the fumes because there was no baggage car or employee sleeping car between the engine and our sleeper, but that's another story.
 
I was recently profiled to be questioned and then searched by a Reno Drug Detective. (Read the full report).

In my situation my Roomette trip from SLC-TRU had raised a red flag because I had changed my reservation the evening before because Utah had tons of snow and it hadn't snowed in Squaw in a week (it cost all of $10, just losing my NARP discount on the coach , everything low-bucket). I was supposed to be on the train the previous day. The drug detective explained that the Zephyr was a known route for the transport of drugs by people buying roomettes just before travel.

The detective made it clear that I was profiled because of late purchase, he knew my name and even more creepily that I was from New York, I guess Amtrak also shared my billing address. He basically believed my story and did a very quick search of my room (very quick glance through my backpack, my only piece of luggage, looked under the bed, felt up my overstuffed with gloves and hats ski jacket but luckily didn't search me). It was all very bizarre.
 
I have heard stories about how young men traveling in a roommette by themselves get flagged for search. Would not be surprised if they profiled by race as well.
 
I have heard stories about how young men traveling in a roommette by themselves get flagged for search. Would not be surprised if they profiled by race as well.

Just got back a little over a week ago from a round-trip, CLE to LAX and back.

I took the Texas Eagle out and the Southwest Chief back. Roomettes both ways. When boarding in Chicago, there was a mix-up in the room across from me. I rode out to the train with an elderly woman via the Redcap. She had a ticket for the room across from me. But when we got in the car, there was a black man, probably in his 30s, in the room. I recommended they ask the SCA to get the conductor, because I saw both their tickets and they both looked legit.

The gentleman ended up staying in the room and the lady was put in another Roomette.

The next morning in Longview, TX, I came up from the shower and was stopped at the top of the stairs by a guy in plainclothes who asked where I was going. Looked down the hall to see two other plainclothes guys frisking the guy across from me. I told him my Roomette number and was told I had to wait. After frisking the guy, they pretty much tossed his Roomette. When I was finally let back in, I looked out the window and saw a uniformed cop with a German Shepherd. The gentleman across from me said he was told they were "randomly" searching several rooms/people on the train. I looked out the window and said, "Well they're leaving now."

The man said, "You're kidding me? I'm the ONLY one they searched?"

He ran down to the lower door and I could actually hear him yelling, "Are you kidding me? You said you were randomly searching the train and I'm the ONLY one you search?? Is it because I'm a single black man in a First Class Car?" They ignored him and got in their cars.

The gentleman told me they knew his name, so Amtrak had to give the name to the guys doing the searching. He said they had the drug-sniffing dog go into his Roomette first before frisking him.

On the SWC on the way back, there was a young (probably in his 20s) Hispanic kid. Talked to him for a while, got his name, very well spoken, on his way to Kansas City, his first time on a train. I let him know a few things about the train and what to expect. We got into Albuquerque about an hour late. I ran into the station to use the ATM. Took some pics from the platform and my room, when another plainclothes guy stops outside my open door and says "Hey, how you doin'?" and knocks on the door of the Roomette across from me.

He identifies himself as a cop, knows the kid's first name, asks how he's doing and the kid answers back in his well-spoken English, but after a couple sentences, the cop stops him and asks, "Habla Espanol?" He then proceeded to speak only in Spanish to the kid, even when the kid would speak in English. Then another plainclothes (alleged) cop shows up and they end up frisking him and tossing his Roomette as well.

I found the whole thing very unsettling. It seemed pretty much that the cop purposely spoke Spanish hoping I wouldn't understand that this kid's rights were being violated.

So I have to ask, has this suddenly become standard procedure on Amtrak trains? And what rights do passengers have? Can they refuse having their room and their person searched? Having been on the platform before and seeing these guys enter the train, it was very obvious they only searched this kid's room. And once again they knew his name, so it seemed as if Amtrak had provided it to them. Would I be tossed off a train if I refused to have my person or room searched without a warrant? Or is there some implicit contract when purchasing a ticket?

Quite the interesting trip, including someone dying on the train overnight somewhere in Kansas and my getting rather sick from the fumes because there was no baggage car or employee sleeping car between the engine and our sleeper, but that's another story.

When you purchase a ticket you give them the right to search.

As far as how people get picked. Several ways. Most likely someone smells a drug or passenger they acts like they are using drugs and someone called and "tipped" off the police. That someone coud be an employee or a passenger. Passengers have called 911 about other passengers without telling any crew memebers or after telling crew members who did not to call the police about a passenger.

Also the police have the passenger manifests. They can match the manifest against passengers in criminal or terrorist list databases.
 
Yeah, I'd love to see the statistics to back that assertion up.

Given that all policemen are hardworking trustworthy individuals, I'm sure that the random searches are completely random and racial profiling has nothing to do with it.
 
Yeah, I'd love to see the statistics to back that assertion up.

Given that all policemen are hardworking trustworthy individuals, I'm sure that the random searches are completely random and racial profiling has nothing to do with it.
lol lol that is the funnyest thing u have ever posted ryan
 
Thanks to Jeremiah it sounds like passengers who make last minute roomette purchases are flagged for search. Now the question is... are the police simply asking the conductor to see the passenger manifest or is someone Amtrak sending a message to law enforcement when suspect tickets are purchased?
 
I like the Another Amtrak Secretary "cashing in" theory, combined with Ryan's spot on post!

And it must be time for another Reno 911 Movie!!
 
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When you purchase a ticket you give them the right to search.

As far as how people get picked. Several ways. Most likely someone smells a drug or passenger they acts like they are using drugs and someone called and "tipped" off the police. That someone coud be an employee or a passenger. Passengers have called 911 about other passengers without telling any crew memebers or after telling crew members who did not to call the police about a passenger.

Also the police have the passenger manifests. They can match the manifest against passengers in criminal or terrorist list databases.
Thank you. That answers a lot for me.
 
Given that all policemen are hardworking trustworthy individuals, I'm sure that the random searches are completely random and racial profiling has nothing to do with it.
Kind of a broad brush you are using.
If you want to see a broad brush read up on civil forfeiture. Even though everyone seems to think CF is suddenly dead the only thing that actually changed was an operational directive at the federal level that can be reversed at any time while state based CF remains fully intact.
 
If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear.
That is the most over used anti-liberty, pro-let-government-do-anything-they-want quote constantly being thrown out.

There was a thread on here several years back, about the time of the Vipr incident in Savannah, that was about protecting your civil rights, all while being compliant to Amtrak's carriage rules. I don't have time to dig it up, but it may be time for a refresher.

Just because a ticket says you consent to searches, the 4th amendment can't be annulled by fine print. Amtrak's status as a quasi government agency strengthens this.

IIRC, it goes something like this:

"Hi, what is your name?"

"Bo Jangles"

"Where are you headed, Mr. Jangles?"

"I'm sorry, am I being suspected of a crime?"

"No, we just want to search your stuff."

"Do you have a warrant?"

"No, but that conductor will put you off the train."

"That's fine. Do you have probably cause?"

"No, but that conductor will put you off the train."

You get put off the train, but your rights are protected. Woo hoo!

That being said, unless the cops have a drug pooch that marks your room, you can stand your ground. Having the courage and the wherewithal to do so - especially at the potential of having your trip cancelled - is another issue completely.
 
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If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear.
That is actually not very true. Clearly you have zero experience with any such encounter to be making that statement. You do have much to fear even if you have nothing to hide, if you got caught in a mis-identification situation either deliberately caused by someone or by sheer accident.
 
When you purchase a ticket you give them the right to search.

Sorry, is there some cite to this?

I actually don't believe that the police have a right to search a roomette unless they have probable cause. It's akin, I'd say, to wanting to search a hotel room. A person has a reasonable expectation of privacy when in a hotel room and the police are required to have a warrant to search it. Similarly, a person who has rented a room on a train also has a reasonable expectation to privacy and the police are not entitled to search it unless they have probable cause and, therefore, a warrant.

And I agree with VentureForth that just because the carriage contract actually says that you consent to searches (does it really say that?!), it doesn't make them permissible.

If these types of searches are actually happening, they're likely ripe for review by a federal court.

If an officer asked to search my roomette, I'd respectfully ask (1) whether I'm being detained and if so, for what reason; (2) if not, whether they have a warrant to search the roomette; (3) if they insist on searching the roomette, to ask for the officer's name and badge number; (4) ask that they call their supervisor on the basis that you believe that an illegal search is occurring and would like to speak with them about it; and (5) if they do search, insist that you do not consent to the search. Afterwards, file a legal grievance, if warranted.

Threats of "kicking you off the train" are just that. Just because someone has a badge or uniform on, doesn't given them the right to beat citizens into submission. That's the whole point of the 4th Amendment of the Constitution. Unfortunately, most people are afraid to stand up for their civil liberties, which is a pity.
 
This is very concerning. To me, it potentially places everyone on board the train in danger, since if there is any type of altercation anyone could get hurt in potential cross fire (guy tries to run, police gets trigger happy, fellow passenger gets hurt.)

I would rather have my bag searched upon boarding, airline style, than be subject to searches like this. The guest poster above makes it sound like "standing for your rights" is as simple as saying no. I highly doubt it would be that easy!
 
If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear.
It's like they used to say in Germany before the war,

"If the Jews/union leaders/civil liberties lawyers/

Communists/gypsies/etc didn't do anything wrong,

why are they in jail?"

Hey, in this country, "talking back" to a cop can

get you tasered, beaten, or killed. Aside from that

nothing to fear.
 
Modified post to eliminate names of guilty parties:

Draconian measures like the so called "Patriot Act",No Knock Laws and the phoney, failed

"War on Drugs" are typical over reaction by Governments when they are allowed to get away with it!

There's a reason the Founding Fathers added the 4th Amendment to the Constitution!

Warrants? We're the Government, we don't need any stinkin' warrants!
 
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