Double Headed 'toasters'

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stonesfan

Service Attendant
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
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Location
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Thats a good 14000hp available there to rocket those 5 Amfleets along!!

Any reason why double headed locos are used on such a light load?

Managed to grab a pic at Secaucus in the failing light.

1yjtbc.jpg
 
I'd have to guess it was some sort of an equipment move...either from a maintenance facility or to one. Or for any other reason why they'd need to shuttle equipment around. Makes a lot more sense to just attach it to a train than to move it in a completely separate move.
 
This is a common occurrence. They do this whenever one needs moving for one reason or another. Also, if one has been in for maintenance recently, they'll put 2 on, just in case the one returning from the shop has any problems.
 
Since they're both running pantograph up it's a pretty safe bet that it was some sort of Mechanical testing or equipment move. If one of them was dead they wouldn't both have pantographs up.
 
Any time an engine comes out of the shop, it always makes its first run with a second engine just in case.

Also a chance that it could be a power balancing move.
 
About how common is this? When we were on vacation, I took a pic of the Silver Meteor through BWI with two toasters, and saw another doubleheader. I think on both trains the pantographs were up.
 
Depends on PM cycles. Usually power moves into and out of Wilmington happen in bunches, so if there was a whole bunch of power that just came out of overhaul/repair then it's entirely possible you'll see a few trains with doubled up power. Also, end points may vary. The Meteor only runs to New York, whereas the other train might've been dropping its power at New Haven or Boston.
 
MattW said:
About how common is this? When we were on vacation, I took a pic of the Silver Meteor through BWI with two toasters, and saw another doubleheader. I think on both trains the pantographs were up.
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The Meteor is a much heavier train with its Heritage baggage (which weighs more than an Amfleet empty, and much more if its carrying a good sized load), Viewliner sleepers (which are heavy the way only poorly production engineered things can be), the Heritage diner (which has an entire kitchen in it), and the Amfleet II lounge (which because of its enormous water tanks, is also much heavier than an AmCafe). They run it with either a HHP-8 or two AEM-7DCs. The pair of DCs are needed since they don't have the traction control equipment that the other two engines have, not to mention reduced tractive effort, and therefore need to distribute power over more wheels. And it seriously actually needs more than 7000 horsepower to move, particularly through the North River tunnels.

The ten-car Meteor weighs about the same as a (hypothetical) 15-car Regional.
 
They are both the Star, not the Meteor, for one. For the second, the first one has 2 Viewliners, not three. The 10th car is an Amfleet II, which barely weighs more than an Amfleet I. The Silver Star often runs with a single AEM-7DC.

As for the second one, equipment shortages happen. So they chugged outta Penn slower than usual.
 
There's a good news story on the MP36's as well (that I'll post in the appropriate thread), it looks like Christmas is coming a few months early here in MD!

Edit: and nice quote at the end of the article! Good to see publicity for the Riders Advisory Council.
 
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When I was in NJ for few months, I always see double header many times mostly during AM and PM rush hours, its pretty cool but indeed too much power lol
 
TransitRider said:
When I was in NJ for few months, I always see double header many times mostly during AM and PM rush hours, its pretty cool but indeed too much power lol
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Theres always been a view in the UK that American consists tend to have more than ample power available for the task. Maybe its just been a tradition to ensure reliabilty? Ie why 'thrash' one loco hard and increase the chance of failure when you can run a pair more gently and increase their service intervals?

We tend to really thrash our stuff here. Load 16 overnight sleeper trains will only ever have 1 locomotive at the head (none of which are as powerful as a toaster), but will really work hard to keep the train at 80-100mph over most of the route. We used to run our 'deltics' almost flat out for 20 years on load 10-13 express train. As a result, most were absolutely knackered by the time they were up for a relatively early retirement. The mechanics at their depots were always envious of what went on on the other side of the Atlantic.

Going back to the double headed Toasters, I guess they don't want anything wheelslipping and struggling through the North River Tunnel bottleneck, hence doubling them up gives more adhesion and lets them get clear of that multiple unit up their backside........
 
stonesfan said:
Theres always been a view in the UK that American consists tend to have more than ample power available for the task. Maybe its just been a tradition to ensure reliabilty? Ie why 'thrash' one loco hard and increase the chance of failure when you can run a pair more gently and increase their service intervals?
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The biggest reality is these trains have to get up the insane grade coming out of New York Penn. If not for that grade, Amtrak could probably get by with 1500 hp less on their electrics, with the same strain and acceleration most of the time.
 
With the multipl reduced speed areas along the corridor, unless ther is a lot pf power for acceleration, it is difficult to keep schedule. There tends to be a lot more attention paid to reducing weight and improved streamlinig in Europe than in the US. There is a tendency to solve issues with force rather than finesse in the US railroad world. It is actually overall lower cost to do so.
 
Alright, somebody needs to set me straight on this once and for all: Why is it that electric locomotives require so much more horsepower to move a much smaller train? If two Dash-9s (a combined 8800 hp) can handle a 100+ car long manifest over rolling terrain, why is 8000hp just barely cutting it to move 11 heavyweight cars in the NEC? Just another basic concept I haven't been able to grasp yet, since I know next to nothing about electrics.
 
Shotgun7 said:
Alright, somebody needs to set me straight on this once and for all: Why is it that electric locomotives require so much more horsepower to move a much smaller train? If two Dash-9s (a combined 8800 hp) can handle a 100+ car long manifest over rolling terrain, why is 8000hp just barely cutting it to move 11 heavyweight cars in the NEC? Just another basic concept I haven't been able to grasp yet, since I know next to nothing about electrics.
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HEP? IIRC to make those cars longer they have to up the HEP cables that run between the cars... its not an engine issue, its a car issue. If the trains get longer the current 480v cables would be unable to handle the load.
 
It's the acceleration and speed differences, I thought. In the time that it takes that 100 car long train to come up to 60 MPH, the passenger train on the NEC's probably gone from 0 to 125 to 0 and back to 125 MPH. That takes a heck of a lot more power.
 
Hokie pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's not that it takes more power to do it, it's just how quickly you want to accomplish what you're trying to do. You can get an 8 car set up to 110 MPH with a single diesel. But if you put an electric powered train on a parallel track the electric train will be at 110 MPH much faster than the diesel powered set.
 
battalion51 said:
Hokie pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's not that it takes more power to do it, it's just how quickly you want to accomplish what you're trying to do. You can get an 8 car set up to 110 MPH with a single diesel. But if you put an electric powered train on a parallel track the electric train will be at 110 MPH much faster than the diesel powered set.
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Hmm... I still recall hearing that you can only put about 15 cars together before you start having HEP issues.
 
ALC_Rail_Writer said:
battalion51 said:
Hokie pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's not that it takes more power to do it, it's just how quickly you want to accomplish what you're trying to do. You can get an 8 car set up to 110 MPH with a single diesel. But if you put an electric powered train on a parallel track the electric train will be at 110 MPH much faster than the diesel powered set.
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Hmm... I still recall hearing that you can only put about 15 cars together before you start having HEP issues.
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if thats the case how do the canadians do it sense the Canadian can get up to 30+ cars. are all the locos providing hep or do they have a transformer or something to boost the power in the cars.
 
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