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Amtrak classics
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Though I wasn't around back then, if anyone knows anything about Amtrak's heritege fleet pleese say something.
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I miss the heritage fleet very much. I love the look of single level passenger cars, especially those of all stainless steel construction with those beautiful fluted sides. There was just such a "look" about them that I think was so majestic. I recall the sheer beauty of the late great "Super Chief" gliding into a station stop not far from where I grew up. On certain Sunday nights many, many years ago, my dad would drive us out to the station just to see it roll in. It's absolute magnificence is something that I shall never forget.....all that stainless steel behind those warbonnet F-units......what a "entrance" it would make. A fantastic memory from long ago and far away.....
I wish Amtrak had kept the single level look. They would have been better as far as I am concerned. What makes me wonder what happened to those many coaches that were in good shape in 1972 that could have been used for Amtrak and didnt. I was on a steam excursion out of Chicago in 1966, which used Chicago Eastern and Illinois Coaches that looked very new. ??? Also Santa Fe kept hier equipment in good shape, what happened to that????
bill
Mike S.
Service Attendant
I've got mixed feelings. I like the look of heritage cars, but I would want the interiors to be gutted and really modern. That way, if your inside, you'd never know the car was 60 years old. I ate in an unremolded heritage dinner last month (no Temoinsa Rebuild) at it was depressing and beat looking.
I don't mind the look of the high-level cars since most are used on the longer runs and are really about "cornering". No train corners that well, but I'm sure the lower levels cars have a lower center of gravity.
I just want modern, clean, consistient consists.
I don't mind the look of the high-level cars since most are used on the longer runs and are really about "cornering". No train corners that well, but I'm sure the lower levels cars have a lower center of gravity.
I just want modern, clean, consistient consists.
I rode n the Lake Shore Limtedl last week and the teminosa rebuild was showing its age too. The gray, bland interior did not help much. It seemed dirty and warn. Perhaps if they had used that wood look that is on the Superliner sleeper rebuilds, it would look much better. I don;t think they had that material when they did the rebuilds on the heritage diners though.
I thought the heritage fleet coahces with the big windows were great. After they took those off, I just deccided that I would always go first class because the Amfleet II's just dont get it done.
I thought the heritage fleet coahces with the big windows were great. After they took those off, I just deccided that I would always go first class because the Amfleet II's just dont get it done.
Mike S.
Service Attendant
What first class are you refering too?
Sleeper.
I'll admit that I haven't been inside a Temoinsa it like 2 years, but I don't remember too much gray in there. It's mainly pinks and greens. Are you sure it was a Temoinsa? :unsure:
If you've got the car number we can look it up.
Mike S.
Service Attendant
I agree. I think he was in a non-rebuilt dinner. Let me tell you, they don't seem dirty and warn....THEY ARE!
Mike S.
I have some fond, and a few not so fond memories of the heritage equipment days.
My fonder memories are of the City of St. Louis from SL to San F. Somewhere out west it hooked up with the City of Chicago I think? It became a very long and impressive train.. Wonderful old pullmans, first class lounges with librarys and writing tables, overstuffed sofas and swivel chairs with tables and lamps. Domes with Game rooms underneath and when the two trains mixed the Dinner in a Dome was added. As someone already mentioned a view of any Santa Fe train sitting next to you in a station was a wonder to behold. I recall being so fasinated while waiting to leave Kansas City by a SF lounge car with wonderful paneling, and bookcases, striking lamps and sofas all very tastefully aranged. The last month before Amtrak came into being I rode the original Empire Builder and recently looked at the old photos from that trip. Such terrific looking indian designs on the walls in bold colors. A well appointed diner with etched glass panels at thirds of the car, recessed lighting, real tables and cloths with padded chairs that you could actually move. There were many more but not room or recall of all of them.. some of the best bets for seeing great old trains is National Geographics from the late 40's and 50's. Makes one wonder what happened to quality and design. But then all the passengers wore suits in the pullmans and to dinner, and no one put there feet on the furniture and trash bags weren't strewn about the cars.
On the down side, I took the New York Central, I believe the week of Christmas in 62, from New York City to St. Louis, and the train was made up of all hard low back coaches..No water on board to drink, and all the windows were frozen over the entire trip.. It was railroads best attempt to get you to never try that one again. On one Parlor car trip on the Banner Blue of the Walbash they mananged to put a freight car behind the site seeing fantail for most of the trip.. The blinds were hanging by broken cords at angles and the furniture was worn and dirty. The old GM& O continued to run the Parlor Car till the end and had a full service diner when nearly everyone else had given up. Only trouble was the mater d was usually drunk after his layover in chicago for the day.. He unfortunately was finally fired for it.
For a time when Amtrak took over you never knew what cars from what railroad might be on your train and some very interesting cars showed up at times, but of course none ever matched. That was another feature of the glory days, when you took a name train you knew you were on a different one because it was all matched and decorated in a theme so that it added to the excitment.. Today you don't know what train your on. At least with few exceptions.
My fonder memories are of the City of St. Louis from SL to San F. Somewhere out west it hooked up with the City of Chicago I think? It became a very long and impressive train.. Wonderful old pullmans, first class lounges with librarys and writing tables, overstuffed sofas and swivel chairs with tables and lamps. Domes with Game rooms underneath and when the two trains mixed the Dinner in a Dome was added. As someone already mentioned a view of any Santa Fe train sitting next to you in a station was a wonder to behold. I recall being so fasinated while waiting to leave Kansas City by a SF lounge car with wonderful paneling, and bookcases, striking lamps and sofas all very tastefully aranged. The last month before Amtrak came into being I rode the original Empire Builder and recently looked at the old photos from that trip. Such terrific looking indian designs on the walls in bold colors. A well appointed diner with etched glass panels at thirds of the car, recessed lighting, real tables and cloths with padded chairs that you could actually move. There were many more but not room or recall of all of them.. some of the best bets for seeing great old trains is National Geographics from the late 40's and 50's. Makes one wonder what happened to quality and design. But then all the passengers wore suits in the pullmans and to dinner, and no one put there feet on the furniture and trash bags weren't strewn about the cars.
On the down side, I took the New York Central, I believe the week of Christmas in 62, from New York City to St. Louis, and the train was made up of all hard low back coaches..No water on board to drink, and all the windows were frozen over the entire trip.. It was railroads best attempt to get you to never try that one again. On one Parlor car trip on the Banner Blue of the Walbash they mananged to put a freight car behind the site seeing fantail for most of the trip.. The blinds were hanging by broken cords at angles and the furniture was worn and dirty. The old GM& O continued to run the Parlor Car till the end and had a full service diner when nearly everyone else had given up. Only trouble was the mater d was usually drunk after his layover in chicago for the day.. He unfortunately was finally fired for it.
For a time when Amtrak took over you never knew what cars from what railroad might be on your train and some very interesting cars showed up at times, but of course none ever matched. That was another feature of the glory days, when you took a name train you knew you were on a different one because it was all matched and decorated in a theme so that it added to the excitment.. Today you don't know what train your on. At least with few exceptions.
Alan,
I did not get the car number, but it did not look like the original interior. There was plastic that covered the walls and window sills on the window. The original heritge cars had window sills. So I assumed this was a teminosa. I might never have ridden on one of those. I had a simialr diner on the Lake Shore last summer.
I did not get the car number, but it did not look like the original interior. There was plastic that covered the walls and window sills on the window. The original heritge cars had window sills. So I assumed this was a teminosa. I might never have ridden on one of those. I had a simialr diner on the Lake Shore last summer.
Amtrak did inherit a lot at first but did not keep them as it started building its own cars. Only certain of the pre-Amtrak cars eventually were revamped with HEP, etc, and labled as "heritage".
As to Chicago & Eastern Illinois--I have some affinity for that line as some of its inter-line trains came through my hometown of Chattanooga under other roads.
As to those coaches. What did they look like? Were they the fluted stainless steel you mention? If so, they were probably among ten which were built in 1953, And of those ten at least three were significantly upgraded in the late 60's and were sold to Louisville and Nashville R.R. but may have kept the C&EI lettering. Further some of these cars just MAY have made it to Amtrak, not sure from memory. But obviously they did not stay.
You mentioned the excursion being in 1966 so you may well have seen 1953 cars which had just been refurbished.
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Guest
Guest
Try reading 'Twilight of the Great Trains' by Fred Frailey and you'll have a new perspective on the 'whys' and reasonings behind those rundown trains. It WAS to get you to stop taking them.
When Amtrak started in 1971, most of the trains that ran kept their original equipment for a while so that Amtrak could sort through the equipment that was available from the various railroads. Many of the railroads had not maintained their equipment for a number of years prior to Amtrak. Amtrak took ownership of most of the Budd built stainless steel cars that were previously owned by the Santa Fe, Burlington Northern railroads, Seaboard Coastline, Union Pacific, Penn Central, Southern Pacific with some cars from L&N, Wabash, Nickel Plate, B&O/C&O. The equipment from the many railroad was different so that crews would run into problems trying to maintain malfuctioning cars. When the new Amfleet and later the Superliners started to be used, some of the older equipment was converted to HEP which became known as the "heritage" fleet. Most of the pre-Amtrak passenger equipment was built is the 40s and 50s with a few of the cars dating back to the late 30s. Santa Fe, UP and KCS all built a few new coaches in the 1960s. Most of the heritage equipment is 50 or more years old and is well worn beyond the normal expectations of the manufacturers. The Amtrak built equipment is starting to become very worn as well. There needs to be major capital expenditure for some new passenger equipment for Amtrak. Railfans enjoy traveling in older, worn equipment, but its does not do much to attract new ridership.
G
Guest
Guest
Yes they were the fluted stainless steel coaches and from what I remember they were in Excellent shape. It was something to see 21 stainless steel cars being wyed with clear sky and sun shinning off those cars.
Bill
The train the City of St. Louis merged with further out west was the City of Los Angeles and City of San
Francisco (each from Chicago). In later years, even the City of Denver and City of Portland (also each from Chicago) got merged into the act.
It was when all of those "city" streamliners were runninig together that the nickname " City of Everywhere" was born.
About the NYC and the bad trip from STL to NY. I fully realize that both NYC and Pennsylvania did some really bad stuff in the later years.
One thing stands out to me though--since you mention it was at the Christmas season I wonder if you were riding in an extra section? Thus nothing but old broken down coaches. I have recently read that both New York Central and Penn were, indeed running holiday special sections up into the early 60's.
But I take nothiing away from the serious problems. I recall once when the passengers on PRR's Spirit Of St. Louis got off the train and sat down on the tracks in protest . No water, no heat, nothing....
I had reason to take the Amtrak Broadway Limited several times before it rode off to Valhalla.
What always struck me about the coach seats on the heritage-equipped Broadway was how comfortable they were compared to the Amfleet seating on the Pennsylvanian. I seem to recall how deeply one sank into the seats, resulting in a bit of disconcertion. After you sat in them for a while, one really began to understand just how much attention to detail had been put into providing a comfortable seat on an LD train back in the day.
While I miss a well-maintained Heritage fleet coach, I miss a real dining car more. I'm glad I had the chance to have that Amtrak smudgy carbon copy of pre-Amtrak service.
What always struck me about the coach seats on the heritage-equipped Broadway was how comfortable they were compared to the Amfleet seating on the Pennsylvanian. I seem to recall how deeply one sank into the seats, resulting in a bit of disconcertion. After you sat in them for a while, one really began to understand just how much attention to detail had been put into providing a comfortable seat on an LD train back in the day.
While I miss a well-maintained Heritage fleet coach, I miss a real dining car more. I'm glad I had the chance to have that Amtrak smudgy carbon copy of pre-Amtrak service.
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