Does anyone know the status of the Caltrans Comet IB cars?

[SubwayNut]

The Comet has an NJ Transit logo too! Although the purple stripe is gone and it isn't their former car.

 

[roadman3313]

Any update on the timeline for implementation? It would be nice to have the Bi-Levels redistributed (of have PM's complete) by the tail end of summer/start of school to assist with the loads.

Slowly but surely it is coming together

 

[jis]

The Comet has an NJ Transit logo too! Although the purple stripe is gone and it isn't their former car.

No they don't. They have the three diagonal stripes but of colors that are different from those used by NJT, and the actual NJT logo is the letters NJT in a stylized form, which is not present on these cars.
BTW, I think Amtrak and California are also learning the hazards of trying to refurbish cars that have been out of service for a loong long time, leading to this delay in delivery.

 

[Blackwolf]

The Comet has an NJ Transit logo too! Although the purple stripe is gone and it isn't their former car.

No they don't. They have the three diagonal stripes but of colors that are different from those used by NJT, and the actual NJT logo is the letters NJT in a stylized form, which is not present on these cars.
BTW, I think Amtrak and California are also learning the hazards of trying to refurbish cars that have been out of service for a loong long time, leading to this delay in delivery.

The "disco stripes" are intended as a very big nod toward NJ Transit, and were no mistake. Different colors for California, but the same stripes none the less.

And perhaps they are learning those hazards, but I don't suspect Amtrak has a very large knowledge gap in this case. They've been refurbishing long-OOS equipment for quite some time. In any regard, from what I've personally seen of the results they are not doing a throw-together job. The final product is nicer than just about any of the Amfleets or Horizons for aesthetics and comfort. The only part I don't know about is ride quality, but we should have an answer on that question pretty soon.

 

[jis]

The Comet has an NJ Transit logo too! Although the purple stripe is gone and it isn't their former car.

No they don't. They have the three diagonal stripes but of colors that are different from those used by NJT, and the actual NJT logo is the letters NJT in a stylized form, which is not present on these cars.
BTW, I think Amtrak and California are also learning the hazards of trying to refurbish cars that have been out of service for a loong long time, leading to this delay in delivery.

The "disco stripes" are intended as a very big nod toward NJ Transit, and were no mistake. Different colors for California, but the same stripes none the less.

But the disco stripes are not NJT's logo. The stylized letters NJT is. That was my point.

And perhaps they are learning those hazards, but I don't suspect Amtrak has a very large knowledge gap in this case. They've been refurbishing long-OOS equipment for quite some time. In any regard, from what I've personally seen of the results they are not doing a throw-together job. The final product is nicer than just about any of the Amfleets or Horizons for aesthetics and comfort. The only part I don't know about is ride quality, but we should have an answer on that question pretty soon.

I was not referring to the expertise needed or the quality of the final product at all. I was alluding to the inherent uncertainty in estimating how much work would actually be needed to refurb. You can't tell for sure until you have stripped the car down to the basics. I am sure they will come out as fine cars after somewhere between $1.7 million and $2 million per car is spent on acquiring and refurbishing them. AFAICT acquisition price was about $750K per car and refurbishment cost is in the $1 million ballpark.

 

[rickycourtney]

I was not referring to the expertise needed or the quality of the final product at all. I was alluding to the inherent uncertainty in estimating how much work would actually be needed to refurb. You can't tell for sure until you have stripped the car down to the basics. I am sure they will come out as fine cars after somewhere between $1.7 million and $2 million per car is spent on acquiring and refurbishing them. AFAICT acquisition price was about $750K per car and refurbishment cost is in the $1 million ballpark.

Caltrans purchased the 14 Comet IB cars for $1.05 million, and they are paying Amtrak approximately $20 million to have the cars refurbished. That's about $1.5 million dollars per car. For reference, the 42 bi-level cars Caltrans just bought from Nippon Sharyo cost $2.71 million dollars per car.

We'll likely learn a bit more about when these cars could go into service next week at the July 26th board meeting of the San Joaquin Joint Powers Authority. The agenda has staff giving an update on the status of the cars. It's also interesting to note that the SJJPA board is less than happy about the Comet cars. Last meeting they asked for assurances that all San Joaquin trainsets will go back to using bi-level cars ASAP and that they aren't responsible for paying the $21 million dollars spent on the single-level cars.

 

[jis]

I suspect that the delay in completing the project is due to cost overruns that they are figuring out how to cover without making it too visible. If that is true then one can surmise that there will be further delays due to the inability to pay the difference in a timely fashion.

I would be curious to learn what the official stance is these days, so please do keep us posted.

 

[X]

It's been posted on TO, so I'll confirm that 712/717 of Thursday the 1st is planned to have a low level set.

4 Amfleet coaches, 1 Horizon Diner, 3 Comet coaches, and a NPCU, it's going to be a long train!

 

[roadman3313]

Thanks! So I also assume that (as posted) the Comet cars will not be open to the public on 712 as it will still be considered a test run? Hopefully all goes well and 717 will allow the cars to have their first public debut. Sounds like this would be a good photo op!

On an aside I saw a 6-car (plus P42) Capitol Corridor train this past Sunday. I found that interesting as I'm used to seeing the 4 or 5 car train. Is this a sign of a future change (if additional cars are clear of maintenance and free for other uses) or just an operational change for the day?

 

[frequentflyer]

Just what is the purpose of the comet cars? Will new service be started?

 

[calwatch]

The California cars used for 712/717 will be redistributed to other trains, relieving capacity then. The goal was to put the Comet cars on the least used trips in order to minimize dwell time issues, which will be significant especially when someone needs to use the lift.

 

[rickycourtney]

Does anyone know what happens if the test tomorrow is a success?

Will the single-level cars stay on 712/717 permanently or will the bi-level trainset be back on Friday?

 

[X]

Thanks! So I also assume that (as posted) the Comet cars will not be open to the public on 712 as it will still be considered a test run? Hopefully all goes well and 717 will allow the cars to have their first public debut. Sounds like this would be a good photo op!
On an aside I saw a 6-car (plus P42) Capitol Corridor train this past Sunday. I found that interesting as I'm used to seeing the 4 or 5 car train. Is this a sign of a future change (if additional cars are clear of maintenance and free for other uses) or just an operational change for the day?

Current plan is test run for the Comets both ways, very much subject to change.

Now just 2 Comets, by the way.

The extra car was for a special group, but the freed up cars will make doing things like that easier.

 

[X]

Does anyone know what happens if the test tomorrow is a success?
Will the single-level cars stay on 712/717 permanently or will the bi-level trainset be back on Friday?

Today's Bi-Level set will layover tomorrow and be back on Friday, after that, who knows?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Does anyone have interior pictures of these refurbished cars? I'm sorry if I missed some in the thread. These cars better be much more comfortable than those NJT commuters with non-reclining seats.

 

[rickycourtney]

Does anyone have interior pictures of these refurbished cars? I'm sorry if I missed some in the thread. These cars better be much more comfortable than those NJT commuters with non-reclining seats.

I've attached the handout pictures from Caltrans.

They've been upgraded with Amtrak's standard intercity 2x2 seating (full recline, but no foot or leg rests) and IMHO the seats are nicer than the seats on the California Cars (which don't recline).

 

[calwatch]

I'm more concerned about the bright lighting at 5 am on the corridor cars. This is why when I travel ground between NorCal and SoCal I often opt for the bus - at least they turn off the lights at night. I often prefer riding in the refurbished Superliners on the San Joaquin because they have dimmer lighting than the California cars.

 

[battalion51]

Isn't one of the goals of the expansion of the sets to get a Quiet Car on every train? At least in the Northeast IIRC the lights are kept off except for the lights over the aisle.

 

[roadman3313]

Any word on how the test run ran? I know it was over an hour late on 712 out of Emeryville (left Oakland only a few down) due to mechanical issues and then late on 717 due to late train set-arrival but I believe that was due to the P42 and not the cars themselves if I heard correctly?

Any word when they may become a regular fixure (or at least used on more regular tests)?

 

[John]

There is another one in the Chicago Yards by the S&I building I saw it this morning when on my Metra BNSF Commuter Train. Didn't catch the number though.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Does anyone have interior pictures of these refurbished cars? I'm sorry if I missed some in the thread. These cars better be much more comfortable than those NJT commuters with non-reclining seats.

I've attached the handout pictures from Caltrans.

They've been upgraded with Amtrak's standard intercity 2x2 seating (full recline, but no foot or leg rests) and IMHO the seats are nicer than the seats on the California Cars (which don't recline).

That looks pretty nice for a Comet. Pretty much the same as an Horizon. The windows look a bit peculiar for an Amtrak, bus lokks a lot more comfortable that the California Cars.

I'm more concerned about the bright lighting at 5 am on the corridor cars. This is why when I travel ground between NorCal and SoCal I often opt for the bus - at least they turn off the lights at night. I often prefer riding in the refurbished Superliners on the San Joaquin because they have dimmer lighting than the California cars.

I ride the Greyhound too, their seats are more comfortable than the ones on California Cars. Plus, they have lots of fast and cheap service on LAD-SFD and LAD-SAC.

It's cheaper to book RNO-SAC seperately, BTW.

But I'm not happy about Greyhound's large numbers of G4500 buses in California. I'm often fighting between a slow and expensive amtrak ride with transfers, or a confvenient Greyhound ride on a G4500. But at least it's better than a Megabus Van Hool.

Not trying to go off topic, this is relevent to these Comets in CA.

 

[rickycourtney]

I'm more concerned about the bright lighting at 5 am on the corridor cars. This is why when I travel ground between NorCal and SoCal I often opt for the bus - at least they turn off the lights at night. I often prefer riding in the refurbished Superliners on the San Joaquin because they have dimmer lighting than the California cars.

I agree. Whenever I take the early train to the Bay Area I join the regulars in the Superliner up front. The dim light helps if you're trying to take a nap. But here's the thing... the California cars are capable of having the lights dimmed. I was once on a very delayed SJ (due to a freight derailment in Denair) and after 10:30pm the conductors dimmed the lights in every car so people could get some sleep.. people who didn't still had overhead reading lights. It would be nice if they had dim lighting hours on the early morning/late night runs.

I ride the Greyhound too, their seats are more comfortable than the ones on California Cars. Plus, they have lots of fast and cheap service on LAD-SFD and LAD-SAC.
It's cheaper to book RNO-SAC seperately, BTW.

But I'm not happy about Greyhound's large numbers of G4500 buses in California. I'm often fighting between a slow and expensive amtrak ride with transfers, or a confvenient Greyhound ride on a G4500. But at least it's better than a Megabus Van Hool.

Not trying to go off topic, this is relevent to these Comets in CA.

I agree the new leather seats on the new Greyhound buses look nicer than the seats on the California cars (but I've never been on the 'hound). But the seats on these Comet IB coaches look nicer than the ones on the bus.

I just wish Caltrans could have a consistent quality for the buses between Bakersfield and SoCal...

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I'm more concerned about the bright lighting at 5 am on the corridor cars. This is why when I travel ground between NorCal and SoCal I often opt for the bus - at least they turn off the lights at night. I often prefer riding in the refurbished Superliners on the San Joaquin because they have dimmer lighting than the California cars.

I agree. Whenever I take the early train to the Bay Area I join the regulars in the Superliner up front. The dim light helps if you're trying to take a nap. But here's the thing... the California cars are capable of having the lights dimmed. I was once on a very delayed SJ (due to a freight derailment in Denair) and after 10:30pm the conductors dimmed the lights in every car so people could get some sleep.. people who didn't still had overhead reading lights. It would be nice if they had dim lighting hours on the early morning/late night runs.

I ride the Greyhound too, their seats are more comfortable than the ones on California Cars. Plus, they have lots of fast and cheap service on LAD-SFD and LAD-SAC.
It's cheaper to book RNO-SAC seperately, BTW.

But I'm not happy about Greyhound's large numbers of G4500 buses in California. I'm often fighting between a slow and expensive amtrak ride with transfers, or a confvenient Greyhound ride on a G4500. But at least it's better than a Megabus Van Hool.

Not trying to go off topic, this is relevent to these Comets in CA.

I agree the new leather seats on the new Greyhound buses look nicer than the seats on the California cars (but I've never been on the 'hound). But the seats on these Comet IB coaches look nicer than the ones on the bus.

I just wish Caltrans could have a consistent quality for the buses between Bakersfield and SoCal...

Problem is, California is packed with G4500 buses, which suck. So I consider California transport very poor. I like Greyhound, but not the G4500. I like Amtrak, but not the California Cars. I can ride a Comet IB, but I have to transfer for pretty much any useful trip.

From FRS, I imagine it's a bit better. From RNO (me), I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Look at this:

Amtrak to SF, $51, 8 hours 30 minutes (Superliner).

Amtrak California to SF, $61, requires transfer at SAC, about 6-9 hours. Bus connection varies, the California Car isn't comfortable.

Greyhound to SF, $10, 5 hours (G4500).

Megabus to SF, $1 (rare), mostly around $8, 4 hours 45 minuted (Van Hool TD925).

You see, I either waste loads of time and money on the regular Amtrak, deal with transfers and California Cars on Amtrak CA, deal with a G4500 on Greyhound, or suffer a Van Hool on Megabus.

Ah, I just hope Greyhound will refurbish those G4500s quick, but I still don't trust the refurbished G4500. Good old D Coach was way better back in BHM.

Edit: wrong prices

 

[Agent]

The latest Comet coach out of the shop is now heading west on Amtrak #5(15). Looks like it's CDTX 5014 Spirit of California.

 

[sechs]

Anyone who knows the plan... Will this single-level set be confined to the 712/717 loop?