Defending the Sunset Limited

[Ben]

Everyone these days seem to want the Sunset destroyed, pointing to the poor ridership and losses/passenger. However these people don't look at the WHOLE picture and haven't analyzed what massive delays have done to ridership over the past 10 years. Let's take a look at ridership numbers since 1994 for the Sunset. Scroll down to pg. 37 and 38 of this report. The train had a peak of 175,000 in 1994, compared to 80,000 for 2005. This is what massive delays sine 1996 has done to this poor train. Every year since 1994 the ridership has fallen. Compare the 1994 ridership of the Sunset to the Chief, Eagle, and Zephyr. The Sunset has always had more passengers than the Eagle up until recently. Now that the Eagle runs daily, it has 230,000 annually. If the Sunset were made daily and run without delays, it would easily have 275,000 or so, which is comparable to the Chief and Zephyr. Now if more people are on the train, losses/passenger would drop since there are more passengers to spread out losses and these passengers would ADD revenue. I hope I've changed some people's minds here about wanting to kill the Sunset. What we need here is to kill the delays SOMEHOW, and make the train daily. Once the delays are gone, the schedule needs to be shortened to its pre-2000 schedule, leaving LA at 10:30 and arriving in Orlando at 3:20. Right now the schedule is just way too long, however with good reason. With UP double-tracking a lot of the route, and CSX rebuilding the eastern portion of the route, hopefully delays will come down.

 

[Guest_Amtrak_flyer]

Your 100 percent right, unfortunetly the people in charge of Amtrak now, the Amtrak board, Mineta do not want hard facts that support Amtrak in anyway. Their only goal is to destroy Amtrak and make it look as bad as they can.

Please write your congressmen and senators what you have just written here, and ask them to take control of Amtrak from Amtraks board and reinstate David Gunn. Thats probably not going to happen but as long as Amtraks board is under the congressional microscope the less things will change. Soon enough there will be new elections and the promise of a new day.

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

I seem to recall seeing a similar, much newer report with similar figures, and I wish I could remember where I saw it. Anyway, rider-ship seems to be much more a function of the frequency of the service than its delays. Always absent in these reports is anything having to do with the notion of what it actually costs to move people and goods around the country. Though I have neither the skills nor the figures to back it up, I believe it is impossible to make a profit in routine transportation. Even when a profit is evident, there is some kind of public sector subsidy lurking behind the scenes somewhere.

It looks to me that the new management at Amtrak will look first to the less-than-daily, long distance routes for cut backs. Then they will look at killing the sleepers and the diners. This is consistent with the overall, unspoken goal of transforming U.S. passenger rail from a national system into a bunch of regional systems that will diminish the need for short distance air service and short road trips by car. Overnight trips will end. I prefer Amtrak increase sleeper prices rather than cancel them.

 

[Trogdor]

This is consistent with the overall, unspoken goal of transforming U.S. passenger rail from a national system into a bunch of regional systems that will diminish the need for short distance air service and short road trips by car. Overnight trips will end. I prefer Amtrak increase sleeper prices rather than cancel them.

What makes you think there's any goal of having regional rail systems that reduce the demand for short-distance air and car trips?

The folks that constantly attack Amtrak's long-distance trains have no intention of improving short-distance rail transport (despite the lies they may tell in the media).

 

[capltd29]

I hope I've changed some people's minds here about wanting to kill the Sunset.

I dont realy think that there are that many people here that want to kill the sunset...tell this to your lawmakers...they are the biggest opponents. Without the Sunset, there is a big chunk missing on the AMTK Map.

You are 100% correct, in your findings. America needs a national system. The whole country isn't urban, YET!

Jon Parker

 

[AmtrakFan]

I have always supported the sunset, we need send those findings to John McCain.

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

To "rmadisonwi," just about any search of the GAO’s web site, the Library of Congress, or even a simple Google search will return dozens of documents and letters suggesting –without really saying it– that Amtrak’s national operations should be replaced by state or regional rail operations, e.g. forcing the states to pay for the routes passing through them. Who would suppose the states would fund something like this without much more control: assistance to regional rail operations? As “BNSF 1088” recently posted, Kenneth Mead, the Department of Transportation’s Inspector General, suggesting killing off the sleeping cars and the dining cars, end even deleting checked baggage service on Amtrak's long-distance trains. Though he isn’t saying he’s suggesting eliminating long distance trains, I can’t think of a better way to reduce the number of riders on the long-haul routes than his proposal, except perhaps cutting back on the number of trips per week. You can find plenty of such proposals with an Internet search. Then, with the rider count down, it’s a short walk to eliminating the routes all together.

It’s too funny to laugh at. It’s like suggesting the U.S. Postal Service could be more profitable by, say, cutting back on home delivery to once a week.

Call me cynical, but it seems to me that serious proposals for survival will be those that fix the system and increase income. Proposals that confine themselves to reducing expenses are never serious ones.

It just makes me angry. I've watched the system winnow down to a shadow of itself, the stations still crumble, and the equipment (until Gunn) pile up in repair depots. I've watched all of this while every other industrialized country on earth, and plenty of not-so-industrialized ones, build out and modernize their passenger rail systems and their freight systems as well. I’m looking at the prospect of more air travel for me in the future and less rail travel: more hassles and less evidence of civilization.

 

[Trogdor]

I know that some folks in government have ostensibly called for short-distance corridors only.

However, I don't believe they're even honest about that. None of these proposals has ever come with any money to back them up, and I don't believe any of them have ever stated, as a goal, the reduction of air and car trips. That's why I said "despite the lies they tell the media."

When Norman Mineta traveled (by air) to Montana to speak about how the Empire Builder doesn't serve Montana's needs, and that they'd be better served by short-distance *corridor* service, he couldn't possibly have been serious (and if he was, he seriously needs to be checked into the emergency room, because he might be suffering from a stroke). A few weeks ago, Mineta spoke to a group in New York about how Amtrak was worthless and the only thing worth saving was the Northeast Corridor, because people like taking the train from NY to DC. He then flew back to DC.

So, I'll say it again. The folks that attack Amtrak's long-distance trains have no serious intent to support short-distance trains. If they say otherwise, I can only assume they're lying unless they: 1) show me the plans, and 2) show me the money.

 

[Sam Damon]

Did anyone else besides me notice the falloff in the Sunset Limited's performance came when UP bought out SP?

Just curious.

 

[Guest_Amtrak OBS Employee]

Did anyone else besides me notice the falloff in the Sunset Limited's performance came when UP bought out SP?
Just curious.

Yep.... OBS...