Czech train crashes at high-speed: 2 seriously wounded

[gyuri_ft]

The crash happened as a result of a car being left - presumable by intent (insurance fraud) at the train intersection. The fast train crashed at full speed into car. 3 persons arrested. There are many who was lightly injured, the driver of the engine and an other person are in serious condition.

http://www.vlaky.net/servis/sprava.asp?lang=1&id=1688

Looking at the pictures I think, it could be much worse. Also interesting, the couches are failry old, East German-made.

Remembering the recent Pendolino wreck in U.K. it seems, that in general railway cars made in Europe do not fare badly. In last decades the chances survive such accident did improve. Thus, it would be great if our Rail Administration would seriously test and consider some of the overseas equipment: it could save a lot of $$$ for Amtrak.

 

[AlanB]

Wow!

If indeed it was an insurance thing, I hope that they throw the book at those idiots. :angry: And I sure hope that Czech law allows for a huge chunk of jail time for them.

 

[Sam Damon]

George Harris's thoughts might be interesting on this one.

I also find it interesting how well the Virgin Pendolino which derailed in the UK held up.

It's not the speed; it's the sudden stop.

 

[George Harris]

British safety and crashworthiness standards are similar or close to those in the US. Those of the various continental European countries are much lower. There are several examples that can be used to illustrate the difference in outcome based on the differences in requirements for strength and vehicle integrity.

The pictures seen are from hitting a car? Are you sure that is not an error in translation and it was not some much larger road vehicle? I can not imaging this much damage from hitting a car. Particularly since this appears to be open track without any turnouts in the vicinity for the vehicle to be pushed into so that parts get under the wheels. The dent into the driver's compartment of the locomotive simply would not be there if this vehicle had met either British or US strength requirements.

The derailment of the Silver Meteor a few years back was from hitting a log truck at near 79 mph. The only death was the engineer, and I believe all other injuries were minor. The engineer was killed by a log through the loco window. The windows are required in the US to withstand a dropped concrete block but a log has a lot more mass.

The crash in Glendale is not a good example either, as it involved an SUV vehicle that was jammed into the track in such a way that the coach rode up over part of it and was then diverted to the side to hit an engine sitting in a siding and then the back end of same coach rotated into the path of another train. It would have taken Hollywood months of planning and multiple takes to achieve this by design.

 

[gyuri_ft]

British safety and crashworthiness standards are similar or close to those in the US.

Maybe, but the train involved in the wrecj was a "stock" Pendolino.

Those of the various continental European countries are much lower. There are several examples that can be used to illustrate the difference in outcome based on the differences in requirements for strength and vehicle integrity.

Not sure, we would be exited to have 20-25 year old East German couches here. However, the train with Czech engine and E. German cars was doing 140 kmh = 87 mph at the moment of impact, so it can be somewhat excused.

The pictures seen are from hitting a car? Are you sure that is not an error in translation and it was not some much larger road vehicle?

I can only understand a bit Czech, my Czech is rather Russian. But I am sure it was a car. The pic of the car is here:

http://zpravy.idnes.cz/rychlik-mozna-vykol...2_vlak_auto.JPG

I am surprised the car is in that shape - normally even at 40 kmh impact the car is crushed horribly. A Polish safety demo with a Soviet-made M62 versus an Italian Fiat 125 is here (surprise: M62 wins hands down):



The train probably just jumped the rails at 140 km/h; but it does not explain how come the car is in relatively "good" shape - at least we can recognize, it used to be an Audi. In her better days the same engine (162 class Number 011-1) is here:

This is a mystery. Besides, of course, that no one was killed.

More pictures of the crash here:

http://zpravy.idnes.cz/foto.asp?c=A070320_...mi&strana=1

I have to disappoint Alan: there will be some some strong words from judge. Maybe some "spanking" like 1-2 year. Maybe not. Difficult to prove and good lawyers are cheap there. The Madrid RENFE-bombers with 191 victims ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11_March_2004_Madrid_attacks ) may get a "huge chunk of jail" (=20 years) but maybe not. My bet on Madrid bombers is 15 years and if they behave well, they will be deported from Spain after serving a 10 year term. This one is not even close...

 

[Dutchrailnut]

It seems the damage to locomotive was done after initial derailment when locomotive took out a signal or catenary pole

 

[gyuri_ft]

It seems the damage to locomotive was done after initial derailment when locomotive took out a signal or catenary pole

That is probably the case. Also I think, at 140 km/h (=87 mph) speed hitting anything on the rails can make the engine/cars fly over a considerable distance. It is why we see the car (=Audi) wreck almost at the intersection: the Audi was thrown sideways, not dragged over several miles. Same with the train - the couches and engine simply took of the track. This probably would happen with any smaller train (one light engine + 3 couches) going at 87 mph.

 

[George Harris]

If this was truly and Audi automobile, there has to have been something else that happened. Normally hitting an automobile of any size will not derail a train, even a fairly lightweight one. Yes, the dent in the engine being from hitting a cat pole or some such other fixed item makes more sense. Then we get that most of the damage to the train was due to the derailment, not striking the automobile, but we still have the basic question, why did the train derail at all from simply hitting a car at a road crossing? That is the real mystery here.

gyuri_ft: Unless you know something I don't or Branson can get the British Railway Inspectorate to modify the standards, which I doubt even he could manage, that "stock pendolino" does meet British rail safety standards as they were when it began operation, which to the best of my knowledge would be essentially if not identically the same as current British safety standards, or it would not be operating on British metals at all.

George

 

[Dutchrailnut]

George in Europe trains do not have pilots or cow catchers like in USA , this locomotive had two small snow plows set back from front of engine,.

When engine hits the buffers smash the roof and car goes under the engine(note missing snow plows) and lifts engine up.

 

[gyuri_ft]

that "stock pendolino" does meet British rail safety standards

That's good - we certainly do not dream about second-hand East German couches with 2x4 seating and faux leatherette, don't we? Czech rail uses them in lieu of better things on non-prime services, but their prime express trains between Prague and Bratislava are Pendolino:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdTS5XrkPgs

A Pendolino (or similar thing) between LAX and LAS would be nice. That's the point. And if it travels "only" 79 mph, well, let it be. :lol:

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Nice looking train. Almost looked like perhaps their version of Acela? Very attractive, clean, looked fast, although I have no idea what the actual performance is. Several people using laptops - I wonder if it has wireless? That one short clip of what I guess was a cafe looked like some of the proposed drawing for diner/lounge mods.....

 

[George Harris]

George in Europe trains do not have pilots or cow catchers like in USA , this locomotive had two small snow plows set back from front of engine,.When engine hits the buffers smash the roof and car goes under the engine(note missing snow plows) and lifts engine up.

Guess they will figure out the cause and cure of this problem about the same time they figure out that buffers plus a hook and screw coupling should be replaced with an automatic coupler so you don't have to dunk under the buffer to put the link over the hook to couple cars.

George

 

[gyuri_ft]

Guess they will figure out the cause and cure of this problem about the same time they figure out that buffers plus a hook and screw coupling should be replaced with an automatic coupler so you don't have to dunk under the buffer to put the link over the hook to couple cars.George

Here are few interesting pictures how they deal with hook and screw coupling at the border of former USSR and different solutions. On the first series a Slovak sleeping car is going to be a "guest" on the former territory of Soviet Union.

This is the "European" position with "normal" coupler:

Notice the "normal" boogie almost falling of the rails it is hold back by two inner rails. The coupler is still "normal".

The "normal" coupler is gone:

SA-3 "American" (Chinese/Russian/NKorean/Mongolain) couper "arrived":

The 1435 mm boogies are gone:

At the Chinese-Russian or Korean-Russian border only boogies are removed, the couplers stay.

The similar Korean coupler is used in the Russia - even as it is positioned somewhat higher:

Mongolia: the car was made for Russia, but they converted the coupler height to be adopted to Mongol locomotive:

It seems, China is the same as Mongolia and NK regarding the coupler height:

And while Finnland uses the same gauge as Russia or Mongolia, they did not adopt SA-3 coupler :angry:

 

[wkaemena]

Nice looking train. Almost looked like perhaps their version of Acela? Very attractive, clean, looked fast, although I have no idea what the actual performance is. Several people using laptops - I wonder if it has wireless? That one short clip of what I guess was a cafe looked like some of the proposed drawing for diner/lounge mods.....

I visited the czech pendolino a few months ago in Vienna East Station See it here in Fullscreen Quicktime Virtual Reality