convincing 1st-timers w/ a bad experience to try

[PennCentralFan]

again?

I know some folks who had a bad experience with Amtrak on the long-distance trains who swore never again. The train was very late like over 4 hours and they found the bathrooms unclean and felt that the personal service could have been better.

Do I tell them,

1. well that's part of the deal with Amtrak? You can't count on being on time and having clean bathrooms. You have to be a train person or doing this for environmental or political reasons and like the experience regardless of time and bathrooms.

2. Compare it to airlines. Ask them have you been screwed over by Amtrak as bad as you have by the airlines? Tell them that Amtrak's average is as good as the Airlines over the long-term. Is it?

3. Tell them to try it again since this has to be a one-time thing and secretly hope it is.

Me, I do it because I feel it's a nice experience, I like trains, and it's good for the environment and I'm making an important political statement by taking Amtrak.

Now a lot of folks don't give a darn about and trains and the environment. They want to get somewhere at a good price and on time and have a pleasant experience. If Amtrak has to depend on train people that's not good in the long-run. Or do we just realize that Amtrak especially for long distance routes will be a niche thing for eccentric folks.

 

[Guest]

Have them call Customer Service at Amtrak and tell them what happened and that they were unhappy and would like to give Amtrak another try, but have them ask what can Amtrak do to make them happy!!

If they get a travel voucher they can give it another try and if it is still the same, then make their final decision.

Amtrak is pretty good about trying to make the passengers happy if they have had a bad experience.

 

[RailFanLNK]

Good Question Penn Central............I always throw out my "airline trip from hell" last year, or in 2003 having my luggage searched "high and low" in Ireland as I was singled out in front of about 200 people and it took 45 minutes. I always ask, "oh...you were 3 hours late with Amtrak huh, I was 12 hours late with United, I lost 1/2 day at a convention that is only once every 5 years, I also had to pay 1/2 price for a hotel room since they made me miss my flight because we didn't have a gate to de-board at O'hare, and that 1/2 off hotel room......I slept in it for two hours and had to head back to the airport cuz United told me I was going to be on thier first flight to Toronto in the morning and the TSA people werent at the airport yet so I couldn't go to the terminal area, and then I didn't get the first flight, I got the second flight so I was at the airport 4 hours early after 2 hours of sleep." Thats what I tell them, and then I tell them about the TRIP BACK to Lincoln NE. Stay tuned......................

Thats what I always say!

 

[Sheer Luck Holmes]

From my own experiences, I do think there is a lot that Amtrak employees could do to make the train riding experience a whole lot better for folk. I am sure the employees at the same time get annoyed by the travelling public, but the traveling public, or clients as they might be called, are often entitled to more than they get in the way of service aboard train. There is a culture of "anything will do, as long as we get through the day" on the part of too many train crew, who seem to see many passengers as a "one off experience", rather than an opportunity to convert a first time train user into a repeat train user.

Many things are beyond the individual employees powers to change, but I suggest that most Amtrak employees don't bother too much about passengers opinions. Mr. Caravanman agrees with me too!

Tootle Pip!

SLH.

 

[Everydaymatters]

I, too, agree with you Sheer Luck. Darn! I sure wish Amtrak could clean up their act insofar as their "anything will do" culture. I think they're trying, but is it too little, too late? The reputation of surley crews is widespread, even amongst people who have never taken Amtrak.

It's been over a year since my last Amtrak ride and the crew on the EB was absolutely wonderful - except for one old timer who couldn't give up the old ways. It's the old ways that are so durn hard for passengers to deal with.

 

[RailFanLNK]

I said stay tuned..........I'm back! :lol: On the way back from the convention in Toronto, since it was considered and "international" flight by flying standards, I was at the Toronto airport 3 hours early. My ticket said "United", I flew "United" to get there, stood in line for 15 minutes at "United" only to finally get to the counter and have the CSR bark at me, "its a United flight but its operated by Air Canada". Well....if you read the very, VERY small print at the bottom of my return UNITED airline ticket, you could find it right by the part of the ticket that said, "made in China"! :lol: They then announced the flight I was on was operated by Air Canada and about 40 people got out the United line and went to Air Canada. AC was kind to us for ...............about 20 minutes. I got my boarding pass, went to the gate (2 1/2 hours before my flight) and noticed it was "on time". I then went to go eat. I then came back to the gate and it was a "ghost town". I then went to the TV monitors and my flight was "delayed" and moved to a gate about 35 gates away. My return flight was delayed 6 hours because Air Canada didn't have........A AIRPLANE!!!!! I got to Chicago 10 minutes before my puddle jumper to Lincoln was to depart. They let me and two other Nebraskans get off first, run like heck to the puddle jumper terminal, one person got a ride on one of those nifty Cushman carts, we were told by Air Canada that they weren't going to hold the airplane. I got to the gate, threw my ticket at the CSR for "Puddle Jumper Express" and the person said, "Mr. C, this flight is for Green Bay WI, the flight for LNK hasn't arrived yet, it's 2 hours late! :angry: :angry:

I couldn't believe it. So....Mr. PennCentral Fan, please print out my airline trip from hell, and gladly hand it to ANYBODY who was "two hours late on Amtrak" and say, "this happened to a guy from Nebraska just last year and this is why he has decided to take the train!" I'm a mild mannered guy, but I was about to start swingin' by the end of my trip that I took. The trip BTW, was a trip to gain more "insight" into "serenity"! (I'm not kidding)

 

[TransAtlantic]

It's very true that there are a lot of "old timers" (as mentioned above) who are surly on a good day; but there are some who are really kind and helpful. Most importantly, there is a GREAT deal of attrition going on at the moment, between people reaching something like retirement age, combined with the fact that a lot of these people have had to change very little about their policies and procedures for 25 years, and are very resistant to the changes which are now coming thick and fast - so a lot of them are leaving in a huff. And to them I say "don't let the door hit your butt on the way out!"

But on the plus side, there's also quite a bit of hiring going on, both in OBS and T and E, and especially for the former, one of the chief priorities is having experience dealing with the public, and having some good references in that regard. That's the upside, I guess, of the TCU being a comparatively weak union - they can't strongarm the supervisors hiring the new people, so I think you'll see quite a bit of improvement in performance and attitude onboard. Of course, the lateness is something that is considerably more difficult to tackle, but as mentioned in some above posts, it's not unusual for airlines to be hours late, even after having to arrive at the gate 2 hours early. I, in fact, was once stuck on the tarmac at O'Hare for SIX HOURS!! That means seat belts fastened, no drink or snack service, nothing. At least when a train is significantly delayed, the passengers are still free to roam and take care of personal "necessities".

On top of that, there are certain routes which are remarkably quick - for example, it is faster to take the SWC between CHI and KCY than it is to drive, and given transfer times and check-in time and such, it's almost comparable to flying, at less than 7 hours. So there are multiple factors for those who've had bad experiences onboard in the past to consider, and perhaps give Amtrak a second chance.

 

[Sheer Luck Holmes]

There are always going to be bad trips (and there is a literary joke reference in that for any fans of 221b Baker Street), however I think it is just not good enough to say that 'cause airlines are rough on service, its acceptable for Amtrak employees to "just get by" too.

The whole point is that 99% of people already fly rather than take the train, and if Amtrak employees care about an Amtrak future, they should recognise that their attitudes to many customers are a big turn off.

I hope that the new employees will be better than some of those being replaced, but I have to say the younger crews seem just as workshy to me when it comes to helping passengers. I had a trip from Seattle to Chicago earlier this year, and the young male sleeping car attendant just waited inside the car to direct folk to their rooms, no help to get aboard, no help to stow luggage. He stepped up the attention on the last few miles into Chicago though..one needn't be Dr. Whats On to work out why!

Tootle Pip

Sheer Luck

 

[AmtrakWPK]

And even with an attentive crew, those first-timers are still, most of them, going to be at least moderately disgrunted at the almost guaranteed late departure (unless they are at the origination station) and late arrival, of their train, and Amtrak is rarely at fault for that problem. It would almost make sense to print a disclaimer about that on the tickets, with "ask a station agent or crewmember for details" to make a preemptive strike on that problem, and print the same thing on all schedule pamphlets, pointing the blame squarely where it belongs, on the freight railroads that cause the problems. Maybe include kudos for BNSF with a footnote to Empire Builder's schedule.

 

[RailFanLNK]

When I hear someone griping (it hasn't been often at all) about Amtrak, I almost always take what they are whining about and go, "that hasn't ever happen to ya on the airlines?" They almost always go, "well...yeah thats happened to me on the airlines too!" The hardest sell I have with getting people to ride the train and it was the sticking point for me is the "amount of time it takes to get from point A to point B." I always get, "well Al, I can be in San Francisco in 3 hours, why would I want to spend two days on a train?" Its a legit question, thats when I go to the "you will jam even MORE into your vacation, you won't be rested and riding Amtrak is a great way to get to know your travelling companion(s).

 

[MOI]

My last trip (October, 2005) from Toledo, Ohio to Charlotesville, Va. was partially a trip from , you know where, ,,, but it was not because of the trains lateness , which it was, but the terminals,, I took a bus to Toledo,, and at 8:30 p.m. (when the station was suppose to open) took a cab to the train station,, it was closed, in a deserted area,, had the cab driver leave me at a restaurant,, for about a hour,, went back, it was open,,, so had to pay for a couple extra cab fares,,, that train was 3 hours late, got into Was. 2 hours late,, missed my connection,, but they did everything to get me on the next train to CVS, once I got to CVS it was pouring rain,, went in the station to call a cab,, phone was out of order,, asked lady at desk if she could call for a cab.. she informed me that her ride was there,, and was closing ,, it was 9:15 p.m. , the station was suppose to stay open till 9:30,, so in the pouring rain walked to a bar that was next store and they called a cab.. The next day my daughter called customer service and made a complaint,, they checked on the time the station closed it doors and agreed it was early (must hae a time card ) said they were sorry and we would receive something in the mail.. never did,,, Moral of this long story is,, it is not only the train with problems, but some, but not all ofthe stations,,, and yes am planning to take the train again,, had a great time on the train,, and have gotten a cell phone in case I get stranded again,,

 

[x-press]

Be responsible, honest rail advocates. Recommend Amtrak where it makes sense to people other than rail nuts. WARN AGAINST Amtrak where it doesn't make sense. Give them inside info on whether their train is reliable (Builder, Chief, CONO) or not (Starlight, Sunset). Look over their proposed itinerary and note indirect routings, tenuous connections, etc. Make sure that their expectations for the trip are in line with what Amtrak long distance trains currently provide. If they have a concert/sporting event/business meeting scheduled two hours after scheduled arrival, gently suggest that that's probably not a good idea. If they choose the "longest train ride they possibly can," because they picture an AOE-like experience, with gourmet food, piano lounges and big, plush rooms, explain that Amtrak's a little more . . . "utilitarian" than that.

I sometimes think that people on this board are a bit blinded by their allegiance to rail travel (I LOVE it when the train runs a day late, more food in the dining car!!! ). Believe me, I share the allegiance and travel A LOT via overnight sleeper, but I try to understand that some trips Amtrak makes sense and others it doesn't. I also realize that for a surprisingly large number of people, getting there isn't half the fun, or even one quarter of the fun. In fact, with the discount airlines and red eye flights many of my friends swear by, getting there can be downright torture. Look for the type of friend that is justifiably fed up with that, and might be amenable to an alternative that isn't perfect, but has plenty of advantages on many routes.

JPS

 

[RailFanLNK]

When I wear my Amtrak hat or t-shirt, its usually on purpose to "plant the seed" about rail travel. I too, have been starting to figure out who may be a good candidate and who may NOT be a good candidate at all. I know some of you will disagree with me on this, I tell some of the candidates that Amtrak is kinda.....punk rock! Its bare bones, (financial budgets) fun, exhilarating, not spic and span but always kinda "seat of your pants" its just different than the rest of the "norm". Remember.....The Ramones were "punk rock" and they were respected or loved by alot of people. "Hey Ho...Lets Go!"

 

[PennCentralFan]

Thanks you guys. You have some very good tips. I usually tell people that the journey is part of the appeal of Amtrak travel and I point out the ability to walk around, go to a lounge, and the dining car.

When I tell people about the frequency of the Wolverine from Detroit to Chicago and points in-between they usually think it's a good idea instead of driving. I know a lot folks in Michigan who regard Amtrak as great for going to Chicago.

For the long distance trips I usually mention the perks of train travel. For the EB, I usually tell folks in WI or MN if their final destination is Chicago it's great because you don't have to deal with traffic and so on and most agree on that and I mention the lounge car and so on.

For switching trains I like to think to myself that 2 hours is plenty of time between trains. But I agree that you must be honest and tell them that if they need to switch in CHI and get on the Capital Limited from the EB, you need to mention that if you absolutely positively have to make the CL, you may wish to think about something else.

In regards to employees the one's I'm most disappointed in are the younger employees with surly attitudes. I can understand some folks who've been with Amtrak for a long time and nearing retirement with being a little surly and salty. In fact I really don't mind it from older workers since it is a link to the past of rail travel, but the younger folks really disappoint me when they have a bad attitude. I wouldn't say bad attitude, but not a really cheerfull attitude. Seriously though I don't think Amtrak employees are any worse than airline employees and I would say on a whole that Amtrak stations folks are better than airline folks.

 

[Guest]

No, never, not ever.

But....why not rip out a few coach seats in one of the cars, make all the seats in that car fully-reclinable, and give everyone a privacy drape to draw around themselves. Think First Class transatlantic service on the airlines. That seems very do-able and could be priced between coach and first.

 

[Guest]

Whoops...wrong thread!!

Maybe first-timers would like the idea, though. Yeah, that's it. I *meant* to post that here.

 

[The Metropolitan]

I think one key thing is that Amtrak is not a one-size fits all Operation. Airplanes tend to like to push their speed advantage (even if its not nearly as advantageous as it seems as first, with Security clearances, and often inconvenient terminals) and sadly, many people buy it hook, line, and sinker.

For too many, getting there is NOT half the fun, and given the cattle cars of utilitarianism that many planes tend to be, they don't see where the TRAVELLING part of travel is something to be enjoyed. You could cram them up into a File Cabinet for all they care as long as they're in Chicago in X hours.

From my own experiences, I've found that people who are receptive to taking trains instead of buses or planes tend to be easy going people who like a leisurely pace, comfort, and social interaction by and large. Sure there are exceptions, particularly the business users on some corridors, but most leisure travelers who will ride rail are receptive to seeing scenery, talking to people, and relaxing as they ride, instead of simply wanting to be at their destination ASAP.

It seems to me that people who have some time to both burn and enjoy are the best people you'll find who will be receptive to Amtrak. Give them realistic expectations on what they'll find, and usually, they'll find the ride to have been a rewarding experience!

 

[Everydaymatters]

After my return flight from Seattle in May, I opened my suitcase and found a note from Transportation Security that they had searched my luggage and if I was missing anything, to notify them. My prescription glasses were missing. I got a letter from the opthmologist stating it would cost $276 to replace them. Trans. Secur. paid me $96 stating that it could be the the airline and not them that lost the glasses, so they were paying only half and had deducted for depreciation.

So beware if you fly. In my case, I had to add another $180 to the cost of flying since I can't find anyplace that will replace prescriptions glasses for $96.

Add the low cost of Amtrak onto the list of reasons to take the train!

 

[RailFanNebraska]

If they are concerned about the pretty much garenteed late departure, inform them of how easy Julie is to use and to not much pack up their things and wait at the station if they dont have to. Smaller stations particually,you dont have to be there til about 10 mins before the train departs. Its good to tell them to get there about 30 mins early to when Julie est. arrival, just to be safe, trains can get their earlier.

You have to tell them to get out of the midset that you are going to get there at the excite time. For the most part, on an LD train, it will typically be an hour or two late. Yes it can be up to 6 to 8 hours or more late but this is rare. In the winter too, trains will run. And being 4 hours late on a train is better than be possibly up to a day or more late on a cancled airline.

 

[Boxcar]

I know some folks who had a bad experience with Amtrak on the long-distance trains who swore never again. The train was very late like over 4 hours and they found the bathrooms unclean and felt that the personal service could have been better.

I would say first of all that rail travel is simply not for everyone to enjoy.

These folks you know may be one of them. I gather that their expectations were set too high. My wife and I experenced the very same "Reasons" you listed and are still looking forward to our next rail trip. If a person is of an "A" personality or can't accept the things you listed, then I would never try to get them back on a train because these things do exist and are going to happen.

Someday, if Amtrak is still around, routes and on time performance improve and they get tired of the airport grind, they may come to think that Amtrak wasn't so bad after all.

 

[dan72]

I got back from San Diego a couple of weeks ago with my wife which we flew out both ways. We had to fly a puddle-jumper from Duluth to Minneapolis, and then MSP to San Diego. A lot of hurry-up and wait, in my opinion. On our return trip, we left San Diego at 2:00 p.m. PST and ultimately arrive in Duluth at 10:30 p.m. CST. I was personally exhausted from it and compared to our train trip to AZ in May which was relaxing and a lot of fun. While some landmarks are interesting from the air, I like traveling at ground level knowing where we are at. Although we were generally on time, it just wasn't as enjoyable in my opinion. I guess my response to people is that airline travel isn't all that it's cracked up to be either.

 

[The Metropolitan]

In case you folks are interested, here are a couple of reviews capsules of Amtrak Vacations and the Amtrak Website. Interesting to see the variety of opinions on how Amtrak does in accomplishing its purpose!

Amtrak Vacations:

http://www.epinions.com/166149788545-Amtra...inion_list#list

Amtrak Website:

http://www.epinions.com/webs-Web_Services-...inion_list#list

 

[Jaybeau]

Come on rail fans; when was the last time you had a lousy trip that was made worse by the crews attitude? At least on the airlines we very seldom have complaints about the stewardesses and they usually address them right then and there. Not in the diner with a boom box and a cell phone with the dirty looks as you walk through "their" diner to your "first class" accomodations. They might be first class if the attendant wasn't hanging around the diner so much. In a way we are glad to see the "Combo" cars coming; they're won't be as many people to fraternize and ignore the paying customer. Yeah, we all need breaks; but for the length of the trip? Last trip to Chicago I saw the attendant once in the sleeper; the rest of the time she had her eyes set on the LSA in the diner. WHERE IS MANAGEMENT ???

 

[Sam Damon]

If I've said it once, I'll say it again.

Should you travel Amtrak, and have either a stellar experience, or a decidedly not-so-good experience: dial 1-800-USA-RAIL. After you get to a human being, ask for "Customer Service." Amtrak has people they have hired to listen about your experiences, good, bad, or indifferent. It has been my experience that Something Will Happen after you pick up the phone, and dial those digits.

Then, if you like, call your US Representative or Senator. Timekeeping on Amtrak is currently a bad joke outside the NEC. For instance, Amtrak #30(27) is 4:00 late as I type this after departing Chicago on time. There is supposed to be some language in the Amtrak appropriation legislation directing the DOT IG to look into this; we'll see if it survives the House-Senate conference committee.

 

[AlanB]

Come on rail fans; when was the last time you had a lousy trip that was made worse by the crews attitude? At least on the airlines we very seldom have complaints about the stewardesses and they usually address them right then and there.

Yeah, they address it by arresting you. :lol: Most people know not to argue with flight attendants these days for fear of being arrested. You also have less time and exposure to the flight attendants during a two hour flight vs. train attendants during a 2 day trip. And let's face it on most domestic trips, you aren't relying on the attendant for much service anyhow, a quick drink and maybe a bag of gold fish is about the max you're going to get. So people tend to bit their lip for the two hours, rather than complain.

I'm not trying to suggest that all flight attendants are problems and just don't get reported, but they do have their problem childs too, just like Amtrak does.

In a way we are glad to see the "Combo" cars coming; they're won't be as many people to fraternize and ignore the paying customer. Yeah, we all need breaks; but for the length of the trip? Last trip to Chicago I saw the attendant once in the sleeper; the rest of the time she had her eyes set on the LSA in the diner.

Yeah, that will be just great. Instead of 2 workers who ignore you, while the other 3 do their jobs, now you'll only have the two workers ignoring everyone.

WHERE IS MANAGEMENT ???

Probably sitting in the crew dorm doing absolutely nothing, which is why the crew is hanging out in the diner so that they can get away from management. :lol:

Amtrak used to have a position called the On Board Service Chief. Based upon my experience, I'd say that about half of them actually did their jobs, motivating the crew, seeing to passenger needs, and so on. The other half I never saw them once during my trip. Just like the workers, there are good and bad managers.

Amtrak did away with that position, in part because too many managers were goofiing off, in part to try and cut costs.

Now in their infinate wisdom, current Amtrak management has cut two crew positions from the dining cars in an effort to save money. To offset that savings, they have gone out and hired new train managers. :blink: This position is of course very new, as the program SDS has only been running for about 4 or 5 months. On my recent trip last month, 3 out of the 4 actually seemed to be doing their jobs. The one on the Coast Starlight wasn't to be found much. So I can see the same trend coming again, just like it was under the On Board Chief's days.