Consumerist all but blasts Amtrak!

[MattW]

http://consumerist.com/5117225/amtrak-stra...d-water-toilets

Frankly, I'm dismissing most of these accounts as hearsay and lies until I hear some proof from a reliable source, not a conglomeration of various independent news sources.

BTW-Make sure to read the comments, some are pretty silly and need to be set straight!

 

[Tony]

So, these people were standed in Chicago's Union Station, not on an Amtrak train, right?

Who owns Chicago's Union Station?

 

[MrFSS]

So, these people were standed in Chicago's Union Station, not on an Amtrak train, right?
Who owns Chicago's Union Station?

Amtrak owns CUS.

 

[ralfp]

Frankly, I'm dismissing most of these accounts as hearsay and lies until I hear some proof from a reliable source, not a conglomeration of various independent news sources.

How is one news source more reliable than a source that references many independent sources (with links)? That's like saying that a journal paper without references is more reliable than one with many references.

If these accounts are hearsay, then what are other quotations in news articles? How can a news report not be hearsay unless it's a story about the reporter's own experience?

 

[jis]

Amtrak apparently did a poor job handling the situation in Chicago. There are other reports of this incident that can be found elsewhere.

Sometimes it is better to cancel a train than to string people along. Unfortunately Amtrak seems to be picking up the wrong lessons from the airlines. I have been strung along by various airlines more than once causing me to spend upto a day at the airport epecting the flight to depart any moment now. Sigh.... it is just a collective race to the bottom that we are in.

 

[had8ley]

In due fairness to Amtrak they pick up a lot of pax when the airlines can't fly. How many times have you turned on the nightly news in the winter time and seen stranded pax sleeping all over the airport? I can't remember too awfully many times that Amtrak has stranded all its pax but this seems to be a cluster at one location; and not surprisingly it has to be Chicago. On that note there ought to be enough station personnel and supervisors to advise people just what is going on. I usually look for a brakeman or conductor (if their not being besieged by angry pax) with a radio and try to soft talk him/her out of any info they may have.

 

[daveyb99]

Amtrak apparently did a poor job handling the situation in Chicago. There are other reports of this incident that can be found elsewhere.
Sometimes it is better to cancel a train than to string people along. Unfortunately Amtrak seems to be picking up the wrong lessons from the airlines. I have been strung along by various airlines more than once causing me to spend upto a day at the airport epecting the flight to depart any moment now. Sigh.... it is just a collective race to the bottom that we are in.

Problem is, sometimes it really is 'minute by minute'. I, too, have experienced 'hurry up and wait' from the airlines or when the train is late or parked on a siding. But do you really think the staff and dispatch people are just sitting around playing Scrabble? Ever seen an airline dispatch center on a bad weather day? They are anything but just sittin' around. And I would suspect AMTRAK is the same way.

I shocks me that when the slightest bit of delay is involved, people seem to think they deserve all the luxuries of life and a constant update on status. "Give me water", "The toilet paper is out", "they did not feed me", "they left me stranded". Geez people, be adult about it. How the hell bad could it be when you are IN Union Station. Or even on a warm train sitting on a track somewhere.

Sure you would like to know what is going on. Sure it is frustrating. How about sit back and relax. There really is someone out there thinking about your safety and welfare.

 

[jis]

Problem is, sometimes it really is 'minute by minute'. I, too, have experienced 'hurry up and wait' from the airlines or when the train is late or parked on a siding. But do you really think the staff and dispatch people are just sitting around playing Scrabble? Ever seen an airline dispatch center on a bad weather day? They are anything but just sittin' around. And I would suspect AMTRAK is the same way.
Sure you would like to know what is going on. Sure it is frustrating. How about sit back and relax. There really is someone out there thinking about your safety and welfare.

I am sure that in most cases there is a good reason for the delays and also for why that is not known by local personnel enough to be able to communicate to the passengers. But the frequency with which I have come across completely inexplicable behavior on part of airlines apparently simply to avoid signing over a ticket to the competition, leaves me with significant doubts about these things. I have had a situation where the equipment scheduled for use for a flight is sitting outside visible to all in a pool of hydraulic fluid and is clearly not going anywhere. There are no incoming aircraft by the admission of the gate agent, to handle the flight and yet the claim is that the flight will depart in half an hour, just enough to make it impossible to catch the last flight of the day flown by the competition which has oodles of seats available on it.

I am not suggesting that this was the case in Chicago. All that I am saying is that there is enough evidence around to doubt the intentions of some of the operators. Of course you are welcome to ignore those if you like. But do not expect me to be impressed by your cheerful words in those cases either

 

[Tony]

So, Amtrak locked all the exit doors at CUS to stop anyone from leaving to grab themselves a bite to eat at one of the local restaurants?

I mean, didn't we already have a thread here about the good places to eat near CUS?

 

[AlanB]

So, Amtrak locked all the exit doors at CUS to stop anyone from leaving to grab themselves a bite to eat at one of the local restaurants?

Actually, unless there has been some recent change in CUS policy, it is entirely possible that the passengers were locked in for the night. Last I knew, CUS is typically closed and locked between either midnight or 1 AM and like 5 AM in the morning. And in the past Amtrak often had a policy of kicking people out for the night and not allowing them to remain in the station. After criticizm for that policy, I believe that things were changed to allow people to remain overnight under extrodinary circumstances, like the present ones. However, I do believe that they still do lock the station up at night and frankly it's probably a good thing as it provides some security for those in the station.

And during those hours I'm certain that the food court is also closed.

I'm betting that the closure is what's being distorted a bit to make it sound worse than it really was.

 

[jmbgeg]

So, Amtrak locked all the exit doors at CUS to stop anyone from leaving to grab themselves a bite to eat at one of the local restaurants?

Actually, unless there has been some recent change in CUS policy, it is entirely possible that the passengers were locked in for the night. Last I knew, CUS is typically closed and locked between either midnight or 1 AM and like 5 AM in the morning. And in the past Amtrak often had a policy of kicking people out for the night and not allowing them to remain in the station. After criticizm for that policy, I believe that things were changed to allow people to remain overnight under extrodinary circumstances, like the present ones. However, I do believe that they still do lock the station up at night and frankly it's probably a good thing as it provides some security for those in the station.

And during those hours I'm certain that the food court is also closed.

I'm betting that the closure is what's being distorted a bit to make it sound worse than it really was.

The Amtrak website lists CUS hours as 5:30 a.m.-11:59 PM. You have listed valid positive aspects of CUS's decision to allow the 450 passengers to overnight in the locked terminal. I know that in November when I was traveling on the CS to EB thruway bus connection and the bus broke down, several of the coach passengers were panicked that if they ended up in Pasco overnight they did not have sufficient funds available to pay for lodging. It ultimately worked out fine when the new bus they put the passangers on caught up with the eastbound EB in Spokane so lodging became moot (and Amtrak had announced it would pay for the Pasco hotels if needed because the cancellation was mechanical and not a weather delay). Point being that if CUS had forced the displaced passengers in the Chicago delay that this thread speaks about to leave the station involuntarily, at least some of the passengers would have been in crisis without funds to obtain lodging.

That said, it might of been reasonable and good customer service to allow the displaced passengers a short window of time (say 30-45 minutes) to leave the terminal to obtain food and/or other essentials and show their tickets to security for reentry to CUS. The article has to contain some inaccuracies such as suggesting the passengers were without access to food for 24 hours because the food court would have reopened long before the train's departure. Also, 450 stranded passengers is a bid deal. I have heard that some of the airports brought in cots and food for passengers stranded overnight this past week due to weather emergencies. In cases like this, modification of operating hours and other special arrangements might have been appropriate.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

So, Amtrak locked all the exit doors at CUS to stop anyone from leaving to grab themselves a bite to eat at one of the local restaurants?

Actually, unless there has been some recent change in CUS policy, it is entirely possible that the passengers were locked in for the night. Last I knew, CUS is typically closed and locked between either midnight or 1 AM and like 5 AM in the morning. And in the past Amtrak often had a policy of kicking people out for the night and not allowing them to remain in the station. After criticizm for that policy, I believe that things were changed to allow people to remain overnight under extrodinary circumstances, like the present ones. However, I do believe that they still do lock the station up at night and frankly it's probably a good thing as it provides some security for those in the station.

And during those hours I'm certain that the food court is also closed.

I'm betting that the closure is what's being distorted a bit to make it sound worse than it really was.

Though the point of locking them in would be to provide them with a safe place to sleep... the water is still running-- they should be sleeping. If they do not sleep it isn't exactly Amtrak's problem.

There is plenty of room for 450 people in the station, especially if the great hall is open for people... it may not be comfortable-- but what is the alternative?

 

[Tony]

Last I knew, CUS is typically closed and locked between either midnight or 1 AM and like 5 AM in the morning.

Honestly, I don't usually eat between the hours of 1AM and 5AM. And if I was on a LD train, the Dining Car is closed during those hours too.

I am really just picking on those passengers' complaints about not having any food. IMHO, such a complaint is far from being reasonable. There are lots of options, if someone just took a bit of personal responsibility for their own needs.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I originally figured the station would have to stay open most of the night for METRA service, but when I studied their schedules, I see they pretty well shut down CUS lines between midnight and 6 am. I grew up outside Chicago and remember the C&NW having a couple "night owl" trains on the Harvard Line but they operate from a different station.

If I found myself locked in and hungry, I'd be pawing and scratching out the door to get over to Lou Mitchell's

 

[jmbgeg]

Last I knew, CUS is typically closed and locked between either midnight or 1 AM and like 5 AM in the morning.

Honestly, I don't usually eat between the hours of 1AM and 5AM. And if I was on a LD train, the Dining Car is closed during those hours too.

I am really just picking on those passengers' complaints about not having any food. IMHO, such a complaint is far from being reasonable. There are lots of options, if someone just took a bit of personal responsibility for their own needs.

In general, most people don't, but it would depend on whether they got a timely dinner on a train or elsewhere.

 

[PRR 60]

Last I knew, CUS is typically closed and locked between either midnight or 1 AM and like 5 AM in the morning.

Honestly, I don't usually eat between the hours of 1AM and 5AM. And if I was on a LD train, the Dining Car is closed during those hours too.

I am really just picking on those passengers' complaints about not having any food. IMHO, such a complaint is far from being reasonable. There are lots of options, if someone just took a bit of personal responsibility for their own needs.

When Philadelphia International Airport has to host overnight strandees, they leave a select group of food concessions open all night, and have blankets available. They do not lock people in the terminal (even though it is technically closed), and they do not presume that no one will want something to eat overnight. Of course, PHL and most large airports are set-up for that sort of thing. It appears Amtrak and Chicago Union Station were not.

 

[sky12065]

Last I knew, CUS is typically closed and locked between either midnight or 1 AM and like 5 AM in the morning.

Honestly, I don't usually eat between the hours of 1AM and 5AM. And if I was on a LD train, the Dining Car is closed during those hours too.

I am really just picking on those passengers' complaints about not having any food. IMHO, such a complaint is far from being reasonable. There are lots of options, if someone just took a bit of personal responsibility for their own needs.

When Philadelphia International Airport has to host overnight strandees, they leave a select group of food concessions open all night, and have blankets available. They do not lock people in the terminal (even though it is technically closed), and they do not presume that no one will want something to eat overnight. Of course, PHL and most large airports are set-up for that sort of thing. It appears Amtrak and Chicago Union Station were not.

Not that it's that great of a mitigating circumstance, but I would imagine that if Amtrak & CUS had the likelyhood and/or frequency of such incidents that airlines & airports have, they too would be set-up for that sort of thing!

 

[MattW]

Very true, this was one of those rare situations where trains weren't moving at all for some areas. Thena gain, a few drops of warm rain and airlines report massive delays and whine and complain about inclement weather!

 

[RRrich]

Amtrak has no plans or supplies to deal with a meteorite hitting CUS. :unsure:

Who dropped the ball????

 

[wayman]

If I found myself locked in and hungry, I'd be pawing and scratching out the door to get over to Lou Mitchell's

And if you got out of CUS and went to Lou Mitchell's, you'd find their door locked with a sign giving their hours as Mon-Sat 5:30 AM - 3:00 PM, Sun 7:00 AM - 3:00 PM. I suspect most restaurants within walking distance of CUS are not 24 hours (though most would be open until at least 9 PM).

 

[trainfan]

So, Amtrak locked all the exit doors at CUS to stop anyone from leaving to grab themselves a bite to eat at one of the local restaurants?

Actually, unless there has been some recent change in CUS policy, it is entirely possible that the passengers were locked in for the night. Last I knew, CUS is typically closed and locked between either midnight or 1 AM and like 5 AM in the morning. And in the past Amtrak often had a policy of kicking people out for the night and not allowing them to remain in the station. After criticizm for that policy, I believe that things were changed to allow people to remain overnight under extrodinary circumstances, like the present ones. However, I do believe that they still do lock the station up at night and frankly it's probably a good thing as it provides some security for those in the station.

And during those hours I'm certain that the food court is also closed.

I'm betting that the closure is what's being distorted a bit to make it sound worse than it really was.

Isnt that the main goal of media in general "What ever you say or do make things look worse than

they are!!!!

Trainfan

 

[Guest]

Me, my wife, and my 9 month old son were connecting in CUS on the 23rd. First time on Amtrak, coming up from Austin on the Texas Eagle (first class bedroom). We were meant to go on the Lake Shore Limited which was cancelled--not that there was any obvious announcement of that, mind you. Ended up renting the last available car from Hertz and driving to Erie.

CUS was chaotic. The news stories I've reviewed adequately captured the situation I saw at CUS on the 23rd.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Me, my wife, and my 9 month old son were connecting in CUS on the 23rd. First time on Amtrak, coming up from Austin on the Texas Eagle (first class bedroom). We were meant to go on the Lake Shore Limited which was cancelled--not that there was any obvious announcement of that, mind you. Ended up renting the last available car from Hertz and driving to Erie.
CUS was chaotic. The news stories I've reviewed adequately captured the situation I saw at CUS on the 23rd.

Of course it was-- same thing happens at airports.

Why do people expect something like this to just go seemlessly?

 

[Guest]

I would expect to at least have some reasonable level of communications from my airline. That didn't happen with Amtrak.

That's besides the point, however--I just wanted to state that the media was not "just trying to make things look worse than they were" in Chicago. The situation was very bad and Amtrak personnel didn't really seem to care too much one way or the other about it.

 

[Guest]

I would expect to at least have some reasonable level of communications from my airline. That didn't happen with Amtrak.
That's besides the point, however--I just wanted to state that the media was not "just trying to make things look worse than they were" in Chicago. The situation was very bad and Amtrak personnel didn't really seem to care too much one way or the other about it.

My wife and I were traveling from Dearborn to St. Paul on 23 December. We knew that there might be issues--such as frozen toilets on the morning Wolverine and delays for the Empire Builder. The canceled EB was replaced with an extra train going only as far as St. Paul that left five hours late. We took that in stride, but I have to agree that communication with the customer needs improvement--perhaps some employee training in crisis management and common sense. This was our first long-distance trip with Amtrak. We are taking the City of New Orleans next month to Baton Rouge.