Consist?

[Rail Freak]

:blink:

I gather Consist is the trains car types on a certain route?

Is there any set configuration?

EX: engine,baggage,transition, sleeper, lounge, dining, coach, coach,coach

MT

 

[the_traveler]

There is no set consist, but it is usually how you said - with one change. The diner is usually nearest to the sleepers and the lounge is usually nearest the coaches. And depending on the route and/or time of the year, the sleepers may be either on the front of the train or at the back.

 

[Rail Freak]

There is no set consist, but it is usually how you said - with one change. The diner is usually nearest to the sleepers and the lounge is usually nearest the coaches. And depending on the route and/or time of the year, the sleepers may be either on the front of the train or at the back.

Why the difference?

 

[the_traveler]

There is no set consist, but it is usually how you said - with one change. The diner is usually nearest to the sleepers and the lounge is usually nearest the coaches. And depending on the route and/or time of the year, the sleepers may be either on the front of the train or at the back.

Why the difference?

If you mean front/back, for some trains like the CZ, I don't know. But in the summer, the sleepers on the CZ are on the front, and in the winter, the sleepers are on the back.

For the EB, since part of the train goes to Portland and part of the train goes to Seattle, to speed the switching in Spokane, they put the Seattle sleepers (and coaches and diner) on the front half of the train. The lounge, Portland coaches and sleepers are put at the back of the train.

So the EB is unique, it has sleepers on both the front and back of the train!

 

[AlanB]

There is no set consist, but it is usually how you said - with one change. The diner is usually nearest to the sleepers and the lounge is usually nearest the coaches. And depending on the route and/or time of the year, the sleepers may be either on the front of the train or at the back.

Why the difference?

If you mean front/back, for some trains like the CZ, I don't know. But in the summer, the sleepers on the CZ are on the front, and in the winter, the sleepers are on the back.

In the case of the CZ, the variation in the summer is do to the fact that the train gets so busy that they start selling rooms in the Trans/Dorm car. By moving the sleepers to the rear of the train and putting the coaches next to the Trans/Dorm, it makes things much easier on the coach attendant who also has to assist the passengers in the Trans/Dorm, much like a regular sleeping car attendant. If they didn't swap things around, the poor attendant would have to walk from the back of the train to the front of the train all day long to attend to their duties in the Trans/Dorm and their assigned coach.

I haven't heard if this practice has been extended to the other trains, last summer it was only reported on the CZ, but don't be surprised if other trains don't adopt the same practice as it does make good sense. Someone at Amtrak was thinking when they made this change to the CZ last summer!

 

[Rail Freak]

There is no set consist, but it is usually how you said - with one change. The diner is usually nearest to the sleepers and the lounge is usually nearest the coaches. And depending on the route and/or time of the year, the sleepers may be either on the front of the train or at the back.

Why the difference?

If you mean front/back, for some trains like the CZ, I don't know. But in the summer, the sleepers on the CZ are on the front, and in the winter, the sleepers are on the back.

In the case of the CZ, the variation in the summer is do to the fact that the train gets so busy that they start selling rooms in the Trans/Dorm car. By moving the sleepers to the rear of the train and putting the coaches next to the Trans/Dorm, it makes things much easier on the coach attendant who also has to assist the passengers in the Trans/Dorm, much like a regular sleeping car attendant. If they didn't swap things around, the poor attendant would have to walk from the back of the train to the front of the train all day long to attend to their duties in the Trans/Dorm and their assigned coach.

Thanx,

That's the reason for my question, as I have a walking problem.

 

[AmtrakCrescent20]

Actually, at least according to Trains magazine, the sleepers were moved to the back on the Coast Starlight and Southwest Chief, in addition to the CZ. However, as with the CZ it appears that the sleepers are back on the front end of the SWC and CS, at least until the summer.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

:blink: I gather Consist is the trains car types on a certain route?

Is there any set configuration?

EX: engine,baggage,transition, sleeper, lounge, dining, coach, coach,coach

MT

Absolute bottom line on defining consists is simply the numbers of and types of cars on a particular train......no matter what kind of pattern it may or may not make.

Back in the days before Amtrak, there were many, many different kinds of sleeping cars for example. So a train might have a 10 roomette 6 double bedroom sleeper , another sleeper on that train mgiht hahe 4 bedrooms 4 compartments 2 drawing rooms, etc,etc,etc. One coach might have 52 seats, the one behind that might have 60 seats, for another example.

In such a case the consist would have more details than todays more uniform trainsets, such as when a train is made up entirely of superliner equjipment.

 

[jackal]

Just as further useless information:

Around here, I've noticed the term "consist" to mean what the train contains.

In railroader circles (i.e. the trainmen and enginemen--the guys that work on the trains), I've always heard "consist" to mean specifically and only the locomotive consist (i.e. on Amtrak, two P42DCs, or on a BNSF train, an AC4400CW leading, followed by two SD40s and a Dash 9-44CW).

Everything behind the locomotives was simply referred to as the "makeup of the train" or something similar (i.e. "this train's made up of 52 cans (tank cars), 28 flats (flat cars), 13 pigs (piggybacks, or also "artics"--articulated piggy-back trailer-on-flat-cars, also known as TOFC) and two boxcars...").

But that might just be my railroad...

 

[DivMiler]

For the EB, since part of the train goes to Portland and part of the train goes to Seattle, to speed the switching in Spokane, they put the Seattle sleepers (and coaches and diner) on the front half of the train. The lounge, Portland coaches and sleepers are put at the back of the train.

This brings up a question, since the Empire Builder is my dream trip (and I'd likely take it to Portland). Is there any difference in the ride if a sleeper/coach is at the end of a train versus at the front of the passenger cars? I'm thinking of noise, bumpiness, swaying, etc.

 

[MrFSS]

For the EB, since part of the train goes to Portland and part of the train goes to Seattle, to speed the switching in Spokane, they put the Seattle sleepers (and coaches and diner) on the front half of the train. The lounge, Portland coaches and sleepers are put at the back of the train.

This brings up a question, since the Empire Builder is my dream trip (and I'd likely take it to Portland). Is there any difference in the ride if a sleeper/coach is at the end of a train versus at the front of the passenger cars? I'm thinking of noise, bumpiness, swaying, etc.

Some say the end car does ride more roughly (think whip effect) than a car in the middle of the consist. But, you have the back widow in the door (called the railfan window) to see out and take pictures. And the last car is far enough away from the engine the horn won't keep you up all night!

 

[jackal]

For the EB, since part of the train goes to Portland and part of the train goes to Seattle, to speed the switching in Spokane, they put the Seattle sleepers (and coaches and diner) on the front half of the train. The lounge, Portland coaches and sleepers are put at the back of the train.

This brings up a question, since the Empire Builder is my dream trip (and I'd likely take it to Portland). Is there any difference in the ride if a sleeper/coach is at the end of a train versus at the front of the passenger cars? I'm thinking of noise, bumpiness, swaying, etc.

Some say the end car does ride more roughly (think whip effect) than a car in the middle of the consist. But, you have the back widow in the door (called the railfan window) to see out and take pictures. And the last car is far enough away from the engine the horn won't keep you up all night!

There isn't any physical reason why there should be more lateral motion (side to side or lateral yawing), as the couplers really don't restrict twisting motions like that.

What you might feel is a rougher ride forward and backward (i.e. lurching) as the train crests hills and dales--every time the train goes uphill, it stretches, and every time it goes downhill, it compresses.

Passenger equipment may have some cushioning in the drawbars (I can't recall specifically--I'm pretty sure the couplers have anti-jackknifing extensions or something, but I'm not sure about cushioning or anything to reduce the slack), but a well-run passenger train with a good engineer who applies power and brakes at exactly the right times can make the ride as smooth as silk. (On the other hand, a bad engineer can throw you around and cause injuries...just ask old-time conductors and brakemen who used to ride in cabooses, widely considered the deadliest place to ride a train...)

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Just as further useless information:
Around here, I've noticed the term "consist" to mean what the train contains.

In railroader circles (i.e. the trainmen and enginemen--the guys that work on the trains), I've always heard "consist" to mean specifically and only the locomotive consist (i.e. on Amtrak, two P42DCs, or on a BNSF train, an AC4400CW leading, followed by two SD40s and a Dash 9-44CW).

Everything behind the locomotives was simply referred to as the "makeup of the train" or something similar (i.e. "this train's made up of 52 cans (tank cars), 28 flats (flat cars), 13 pigs (piggybacks, or also "artics"--articulated piggy-back trailer-on-flat-cars, also known as TOFC) and two boxcars...").

But that might just be my railroad...

Some standard dictionaries recognize the meaning as both the locomotives and the cars.

They further endorse the emphasis being on the first syllable, as in CON-sist.

To my chagrin, I just checked the dictionary on my desk at work and it does not recognize our railroad use of the term. But I know for sure that some do.

 

[Rail Freak]

Just as further useless information:
Around here, I've noticed the term "consist" to mean what the train contains.

In railroader circles (i.e. the trainmen and enginemen--the guys that work on the trains), I've always heard "consist" to mean specifically and only the locomotive consist (i.e. on Amtrak, two P42DCs, or on a BNSF train, an AC4400CW leading, followed by two SD40s and a Dash 9-44CW).

Everything behind the locomotives was simply referred to as the "makeup of the train" or something similar (i.e. "this train's made up of 52 cans (tank cars), 28 flats (flat cars), 13 pigs (piggybacks, or also "artics"--articulated piggy-back trailer-on-flat-cars, also known as TOFC) and two boxcars...").

But that might just be my railroad...

Some standard dictionaries recognize the meaning as both the locomotives and the cars.

They further endorse the emphasis being on the first syllable, as in CON-sist.

To my chagrin, I just checked the dictionary on my desk at work and it does not recognize our railroad use of the term. But I know for sure that some do.

I seem to remember someone said the average train set consists of 10 to 15 cars?????

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Just as further useless information:
Around here, I've noticed the term "consist" to mean what the train contains.

In railroader circles (i.e. the trainmen and enginemen--the guys that work on the trains), I've always heard "consist" to mean specifically and only the locomotive consist (i.e. on Amtrak, two P42DCs, or on a BNSF train, an AC4400CW leading, followed by two SD40s and a Dash 9-44CW).

Everything behind the locomotives was simply referred to as the "makeup of the train" or something similar (i.e. "this train's made up of 52 cans (tank cars), 28 flats (flat cars), 13 pigs (piggybacks, or also "artics"--articulated piggy-back trailer-on-flat-cars, also known as TOFC) and two boxcars...").

But that might just be my railroad...

Some standard dictionaries recognize the meaning as both the locomotives and the cars.

They further endorse the emphasis being on the first syllable, as in CON-sist.

To my chagrin, I just checked the dictionary on my desk at work and it does not recognize our railroad use of the term. But I know for sure that some do.

I seem to remember someone said the average train set consists of 10 to 15 cars?????

I guess today you could say about 10. Of course the auto train has much more, I don't even know how much that sometimes is.

And the further back you go in U.S. history the more variance, some trains one or two cars, some over 20.

I rode the Canadian about three years ago and it was 21 cars westbound and 30 cars eastbound.(but three of them deadhead)

Not sure wha a real "average " is. But 10 migh be ok, esp. today.

 

[MrFSS]

I've heard the Hoosier State sometimes has an engine and one car if it isn't deadheading stuff to/from Beech Grove.

 

[the_traveler]

Of course the auto train has much more, I don't even know how much that sometimes is.

IIRC, the Auto train has ~45 cars! But most other Amtrak trains I would say have 6-10 cars.

 

[AlanB]

Of course the auto train has much more, I don't even know how much that sometimes is.

IIRC, the Auto train has ~45 cars! But most other Amtrak trains I would say have 6-10 cars.

The AT can have anywhere from 14 passenger cars during the off peak times to probably 18 to 20 passenger cars during peak times. And that's before you throw on 2 engines and anywhere from 20 to perhaps 35 auto carriers.

 

[George Harris]

There isn't any physical reason why there should be more lateral motion (side to side or lateral yawing), as the couplers really don't restrict twisting motions like that.

I have no idea how you come up with that concept. It used to be said a lot that a train is like a dog. it wags its tail. That is, the back end of the last car will wobble side to side more because it is not coupled to anything behind it which does help it stay centered.

What you might feel is a rougher ride forward and backward (i.e. lurching) as the train crests hills and dales--every time the train goes uphill, it stretches, and every time it goes downhill, it compresses.

This effect is minimal to completely imperceptible in the normal passenger train consist. In my college days riding Southern Railway's piggyback trains with a couple of coaches in the middle that passed for their passenger train on western lines, slack action could be quite noticible, but then usually you had 10 to 12 head end cars ahead of you and 10 to 13 piggyback cars behind you. On the other hand, on those days that the train was short, for some reason the Sunday night trains tended to only have 3 to 4 head end cars and no piggyback, there would be no noticible slack action at all. Being in the first or second coach made no difference at all in front to back motion, wheter the train was long or short. What was noticible on the days that piggyback was absent was the extra side to side motion of the last coach. Before it was dropped, the sleeper was always the last passenger carrying car, so you definitely got rocked to sleep.

Passenger equipment may have some cushioning in the drawbars (I can't recall specifically--I'm pretty sure the couplers have anti-jackknifing extensions or something, but I'm not sure about cushioning or anything to reduce the slack), but a well-run passenger train with a good engineer who applies power and brakes at exactly the right times can make the ride as smooth as silk. (On the other hand, a bad engineer can throw you around and cause injuries...just ask old-time conductors and brakemen who used to ride in cabooses, widely considered the deadliest place to ride a train...)

Sounds like what you are thinking about is tight-lock couplers. These couplers have a protrusion opposite the knuckle that fist into a pocket on the coupler it mates with so they cannot bypass vertically. This si primarily a safety feature to help keep the cars lined up in case of derailment.

The "throw you around" I assume to mean the forward and backward motion due to slack action. Yes there is true skill in minimizing this.

 

[jackal]

There isn't any physical reason why there should be more lateral motion (side to side or lateral yawing), as the couplers really don't restrict twisting motions like that.

I have no idea how you come up with that concept. It used to be said a lot that a train is like a dog. it wags its tail. That is, the back end of the last car will wobble side to side more because it is not coupled to anything behind it which does help it stay centered.

What you might feel is a rougher ride forward and backward (i.e. lurching) as the train crests hills and dales--every time the train goes uphill, it stretches, and every time it goes downhill, it compresses.

This effect is minimal to completely imperceptible in the normal passenger train consist. In my college days riding Southern Railway's piggyback trains with a couple of coaches in the middle that passed for their passenger train on western lines, slack action could be quite noticible, but then usually you had 10 to 12 head end cars ahead of you and 10 to 13 piggyback cars behind you. On the other hand, on those days that the train was short, for some reason the Sunday night trains tended to only have 3 to 4 head end cars and no piggyback, there would be no noticible slack action at all. Being in the first or second coach made no difference at all in front to back motion, wheter the train was long or short. What was noticible on the days that piggyback was absent was the extra side to side motion of the last coach. Before it was dropped, the sleeper was always the last passenger carrying car, so you definitely got rocked to sleep.

Passenger equipment may have some cushioning in the drawbars (I can't recall specifically--I'm pretty sure the couplers have anti-jackknifing extensions or something, but I'm not sure about cushioning or anything to reduce the slack), but a well-run passenger train with a good engineer who applies power and brakes at exactly the right times can make the ride as smooth as silk. (On the other hand, a bad engineer can throw you around and cause injuries...just ask old-time conductors and brakemen who used to ride in cabooses, widely considered the deadliest place to ride a train...)

Sounds like what you are thinking about is tight-lock couplers. These couplers have a protrusion opposite the knuckle that fist into a pocket on the coupler it mates with so they cannot bypass vertically. This si primarily a safety feature to help keep the cars lined up in case of derailment.

The "throw you around" I assume to mean the forward and backward motion due to slack action. Yes there is true skill in minimizing this.

You have more experience than I do, so I'll defer to you. I still don't understand why lateral motion would be affected by position in train--a coupler isn't big or strong enough to really resist that type of motion. Yes, you would think it would, but when you look at the little two-foot coupler, there's no way that if the car wanted to twist or sway, that would really have any impact or resistance. But I haven't spent lots of time in cars on the backs of trains...

I'm not entirely sure what they look like (since I never switched passenger cars), but I'm pretty sure that I remember hearing/reading/studying (or something) that passenger cars have anti-jackknifing couplers and tanks have couplers that restrict vertical movement (so that one car's coupler couldn't slide up and out during a derailment or something and puncture the wall of the opposite tank car). I'm not sure what is what and what the passenger coupler looks like, but I do remember tank cars having an extra protrusion above and below the knuckle that restricted the vertical movement.

And yes, I was referring to slack action throwing you around. I'll definitely attest that running a train requires more skill than you'd think--one engineer let me (as a lowly brakeman) run a short and heavy coal train for about 45 miles once. It's not nearly as simple as setting the throttle and kicking back! I couldn't imagine trying to control the slack in a passenger train. It was great fun, though.