Connecticut Inland Route and Albany - Boston Corridor (Compass Service)

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How much is this costing for the abysmal ridership on that route?

The East-West Rail project has been so watered down and now CSX is just getting its pet projects funded by the government.
They’re trying to do this in a realistic phased approach to try to get some service going and then build up from there. It’s the most sensible way to go given the circumstances. I’ll take 3 a day over 1 a day.

My yardstick for success is the Downeaster, which covers the 114 miles from Portland to Boston in 2 hours 30 minutes. Supposedly one can drive or take a bus in two hours flat, but tons of people ride the train because it's more comfortable, more fun, has a cafe on board, and the view out the window is more interesting than staring at the median on the Maine Turnpike. Even so, if the train took 3 hours, it'd be a tougher sell.

And some people who make the trip a lot use both train and bus, relying on the bus to fill some of the gaps in the train schedule.
Yes in my times at Springfield station a lot of people who use the bus to and from Boston regularly also use the Lake Shore on occasion.
 
Picknelly is following the family legacy.

As regional bus operations go Peter Pan has always been top-notch, when they absorbed RI-based Bonanza 21 years ago nobody really complained. Being from Springfield they focused on service to Hartford and NYC as Boston to them was a soft market.

30 years ago they got stronger in Boston with a lucrative deal with Foxwoods Casino in Connecticut as patrons had the illusion they were actually making money taking the bus. The problem was they let their guard down and the Chinese companies took a huge share of the Boston/NYC market.
His father probably could have stoped it, however as a former PPB insider. From when I was hired in about 2007 till I was laid off the second and final time. The company was run aground. Post that termination in the region Peter Pan has been farther facing stiffer competition inroads. It started when the Alliance with Greyhound broke down and expanded since with Megabus, the Valley Flyer and now Flix bus operating In Peter Pan’s proverbial backyard.
Given the governor making the push for East West. The way many of the old guard of State and Federal reps and the love of ribbon cutting. I am not sure Peter Pan could generate enough political momentum to derail East West.
Yes in my times at Springfield station a lot of people who use the bus to and from Boston regularly also use the Lake Shore on occasion.
exactly. It is the perfect distance and range for a commuter. The problem is the Lake Shore limited is so Limited. One East one west. It’s optimized for an overnight train from Boston or NYC to Chicago. The Pittsfield to Boston parts are an afterthought.
 
I feel this is misguided on Mr. Picknelly's part. His real competition is driving not Amtrak. Better rail service will cause more people to consider using public transportation rather than driving and he might actually get more business if for example someone uses the train one way but finds the bus to be a better schedule for the return trip.
The bus people can never figure that out. In fact, there are many people that don’t travel because they don’t have a car, can’t drive, or don’t want the hassle. There was a postwar railroad executive who said the railroads weren’t worried about airline or highway competition because there would be so much more travel post war. I think his prediction was 70 years early. Between more people crushed by rising rents and the increased price of cars, more people will be priced out of car ownership. Young people want experiences more than things. The population of the country is growing and the density of many parts of the US is as great as Europe. This is a long way of saying that there is traffic for all, and in the future, the railroad station will be a regional hub that busses will feed into.
 
How much is this costing for the abysmal ridership on that route?

The East-West Rail project has been so watered down and now CSX is just getting its pet projects funded by the government.

They’re trying to do this in a realistic phased approach to try to get some service going and then build up from there. It’s the most sensible way to go given the circumstances. I’ll take 3 a day over 1 a day.


Yes in my times at Springfield station a lot of people who use the bus to and from Boston regularly also use the Lake Shore on occasion.
To be clear for future readers, the "abysmal" note was about the Berkshire Flyer, the seasonal weekend train between NYP and Pittsfield.
 
This is a long way of saying that there is traffic for all, and in the future, the railroad station will be a regional hub that busses will feed into.
Denver Union Station already has that physically set up, but through interline ticketing and information is spotty and some bus operators are afraid to set up connections due to wild schedule adherence problems (aka Precision Scheduling). That likely would be the same problem east of Albany on the eastbound LSL.

A regional train between Boston and Springfield could be coupled with a Thruway bus between Springfield and Albany.
 
Denver Union Station already has that physically set up, but through interline ticketing and information is spotty and some bus operators are afraid to set up connections due to wild schedule adherence problems (aka Precision Scheduling). That likely would be the same problem east of Albany on the eastbound LSL.

A regional train between Boston and Springfield could be coupled with a Thruway bus between Springfield and Albany.

Pittsfield John Staci, Springfield Union, Worcester Union, Boston South stations are all intermodal. Connecting Amtrak, CTrail (Springfield), Peter Pan, Greyhound and local BRTA/PVTA/WRTA/MBTA buses at a central station hub along the LSL eastbound. Boston North Station also connects to MBTA along that route. Other points of stops however will vary. Connections north don’t Intermodel again until Greenfield John Oliver Transportation center. With Holyoke Union station abandoned the current platform being half a mile from the Bus station. Northampton Union Station is a bar and grill complex, it has PVTA stops nearby and again the Peter Pan bus station and separate Greyhound stop about half a miles walk away.
To the South till the Hartford Union Station.
 
Isn't the plan at this point just for two additional Boston - Springfield trains, rather than Boston - Albany?
Yes. If and when we do get to adding trains to Albany, connecting to and from the Adirondack would mean a pretty early westbound departure from Boston, probably before 7 a.m., and an eastbound arrival close to midnight.

So far I haven't seen a draft schedule of any kind. But I'd think if you were adding two new BOS-ALB frequencies and the Lake Shore were keeping its same schedule, you'd probably want both of the new eastbound runs to arrive at Boston earlier than the Lake Shore -- ideally one before noon and one in mid- to late afternoon. Perhaps the latter could connect from either 280 or 284 from Niagara Falls. Westbound, you'd certainly want a late afternoon departure from Boston, even though this would miss any connections at Albany. A morning westbound run might make sense too, but I think a connection to 281 probably would mean a more marketable departure time from Boston, closer to 8 a.m.
 
The owner of Peter Pan Bus Peter A. Picknelly III will fight rail upgrades to the death and he has clout on Beacon Hill.

Before the Mass Pike opened the B&A could do Boston/Springfield in 90 minutes - that would be tricky today with commuter rail running more trips more trips between Boston and Worcester.



View attachment 33964
Boston to Detroit in 14:15 back then. :cool: Compare to now...:rolleyes:
Picknelly is following the family legacy.

As regional bus operations go Peter Pan has always been top-notch, when they absorbed RI-based Bonanza 21 years ago nobody really complained. Being from Springfield they focused on service to Hartford and NYC as Boston to them was a soft market.
Peter Pan's original core was its Amherst-Springfield-Boston route. It expanded from Springfield to Hartford and New York City, when it took over the former Trailways of New England (Continental Trailways) routes. And then expanded on to Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington.
Bonanza was probably the finest bus line in New England, until Stagecoach via Coach USA purchased it from founder George Sage. Coach USA ran it down, and shortly after dumped it and its subsidiaries to Peter Pan. Peter Pan as a result got Bonanza's (Providence)-Springfield-Albany route.
 
I just looked up Peter Pan schedules. I was shocked to see that half of the 6 Springfield-Boston trips require a bus change in Hartford. The others go via Worcester, yielding a 2 hour running time. I remember all service being virtually nonstop between Springfield and Boston. 2 hours on the train may not be too bad. But more than 2 trips should be operated to justify the capital cost.
 
I just looked up Peter Pan schedules. I was shocked to see that half of the 6 Springfield-Boston trips require a bus change in Hartford. The others go via Worcester, yielding a 2 hour running time. I remember all service being virtually nonstop between Springfield and Boston. 2 hours on the train may not be too bad. But more than 2 trips should be operated to justify the capital cost.
When I worked for PPB back 10 years ago. Worcester was the standard route. With a few Non stops. Even then though you have the Mass pike to contend with.

During Covid lockdowns PPB took its schedule apart with a blunt instrument. Many of the routes were consolidated. Some trips that were easy back in the day completed rerouted. Today parts of the Old schedule have come back but it’s still not like is used to be.
 
2 hours on the train may not be too bad. But more than 2 trips should be operated to justify the capital cost.
Yeah, certainly between Springfield and Boston, only two round-trips plus the Lake Shore seems like a rather poor level of corridor service -- especially given the Lake Shore's reliability issues going east. Having one or two more frequencies at the outset would allow the service to show its potential more rapidly.
 
Push on by politicians located in western part of Massachusetts to get East-West project going. However, no service before 2029.

https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail...riority-as-wmass-delegation-keeps-up-pressure
The article mentions initial service will be NHV - SPR - BOS I wonder if that will be an extension of existing shuttles, or a true inland route starting at NYP or further south.

I imagine the start date of 2029 is due to equipment plus I'm sure CSX is extracting its pound of flesh in the form of track improvements in return for granting access.
 
In the article West Point posted it mentions making decisions about new station locations - that, along with land procurement, design, bidding and construction of said stations will take a couple years at least.
 
Substantial lengthening/addition of new passing tracks is required by the understanding with CSX to implement this project. Speeds on tangents will be raised to 79mph. Considerible work will be done to further improve Sprngfield Union Station including an added high-levl platform and upgrading interlockings to allow faster running into and out of the depot area.

This work is a primary reason for the timeline. Ironically all of this essentially restores what the NYC had on the "Boston and Albany" route.

But the MassDOT has a long history of unbelievably slow project implementation and this will need to be closely watched and monitored. This is not a massively complex project. Already this is a modern PTC equipped mainline. Bit PC got the speeds down to 60mph over much of the route and central to this project is to reverse that.
 
Here is copy of the study.. IMO reducing the curves for Chapter 4, Alternative 4/5 (figure 4-14 page 79 will have most bang for buck giving long sections of 110 MPH as well as reduce total mileage by 1.6 miles. $400M + would do those improvements and save !!88 minutes without doing Spenser.

https://www.mass.gov/lists/east-wes...#east-west-passenger-rail-study-final-report-

IMO start out with Alternative 1 -2 with agreement by CSX for implementing any improvements when service is already established.
 
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