Coach passengers in the PPC

[The Davy Crockett]

got off the cs yesterday. coach passengers were invited into the ppc for 30 minutes morning and evening for bar service. it seemed to me that they are trying to increase revenue for the car and possibly lure future sleeper pax

That is very reasonable and provided it isn't done during meal time should not lead to over crowding of the PPC. And it is a good way to preview the Sleeper Service to potential future customers.

Ive been a bit leery about this new policy, but I agree with this.

 

[amamba]

got off the cs yesterday. coach passengers were invited into the ppc for 30 minutes morning and evening for bar service. it seemed to me that they are trying to increase revenue for the car and possibly lure future sleeper

pax

Same thing when I was on the train. In fact the PPC attendant even said that it was a private car and while they were welcome to check it out while purchasing a drink they weren't allowed to stay in the car while enjoying the drink.

 

[FriskyFL]

got off the cs yesterday. coach passengers were invited into the ppc for 30 minutes morning and evening for bar service. it seemed to me that they are trying to increase revenue for the car and possibly lure future sleeper

pax

Same thing when I was on the train. In fact the PPC attendant even said that it was a private car and while they were welcome to check it out while purchasing a drink they weren't allowed to stay in the car while enjoying the drink.

While I don't necessarily disagree with the revenue angle, as long as the coach critters are properly supervised, and aren't allowed to (mal)linger or occupy seating, I guess I can live with it. Given the alternative, no mo PPC.

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[Texan Eagle]

On the contrary, if I was a coach passenger invited to PPC to buy a drink and then told to shoo away, I won't be a happy customer and probably not go for it next time. If I am helping Amtrak increase revenue by buying from the PPC, I would expect Amtrak to have the decency to at least let me sit there and finish my drink.

They can instead have a "no loitering" policy wherein coach pax are asked to leave after they have completed their drink (or after some amount of time, like 1 hour maybe)

 

[amamba]

The PPC attendant made a good point that you can buy a full size bottle of good wine from him for $19-22 or a crappy half size bottle in the diner for $16.

If I was in coach I would gladly take the deal.

 

[tonys96]

The PPCs are advertised as a sleeper only proposition. If they are to be an entire train proposition, full time, that advertising should be changed. With only 8 of the swivel seats, when the g/f and I were on the CS last summer, the swivels were occupied all the time during "normal" hours that I saw. I was relegated to standing. Since we paid a premium for the advertised product, it would be disheartening to know that those who chose to pay a lower fare were keeping us from enjoying what we paid extra for. In our case, though, it was other sleeper pax who also paid a higher fare, who were in the seats. No problem there...and we had a blast.

My problem is just that those who paid the extra cost for the extra product should have the opportunity to utilize it first. Unless the advertising is changed to make it an all train car. Then pax would be able to make an informed decision about how much they wanted to pay for travel without any "extras" other than the single seat and lie flat option at night. Many might pay the fare for this, many may not, but they will be able to make an informed choice.

 

[FriskyFL]

Exactly my point. Advertising the PPC as a sleeper-only amenity, but opening it up to all, cheapens the experience. What's next, inviting the steerage class pax to visit the sleepers for juice & coffee?

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[yarrow]

Exactly my point. Advertising the PPC as a sleeper-only amenity, but opening it up to all, cheapens the experience. What's next, inviting the steerage class pax to visit the sleepers for juice & coffee?

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the 30 minutes in the ppc for coach folks was announced as such. "you will be able to take advantage of bar service in the ppc from 4:45 until 5:15". in the summer, with a full train, could be a bit crowded but otherwise, if it helps to save the ppc, by increasing revenue for the car i am for it

 

[FriskyFL]

Exactly my point. Advertising the PPC as a sleeper-only amenity, but opening it up to all, cheapens the experience. What's next, inviting the steerage class pax to visit the sleepers for juice & coffee?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Amtrak Forum mobile app

the 30 minutes in the ppc for coach folks was announced as such. "you will be able to take advantage of bar service in the ppc from 4:45 until 5:15". in the summer, with a full train, could be a bit crowded but otherwise, if it helps to save the ppc, by increasing revenue for the car i am for it

Isn't this a case of "We have to destroy it in order to save it"?

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[D.P. Roberts]

The PPCs are advertised as a sleeper only proposition. If they are to be an entire train proposition, full time, that advertising should be changed. With only 8 of the swivel seats, when the g/f and I were on the CS last summer, the swivels were occupied all the time during "normal" hours that I saw. I was relegated to standing.

This is my problem with the PPC too - it's already too crowded during the busy summer months, so much so that losing the PPC altogether wouldn't bother me that much. Making it even more crowded in order to save it would pretty much defeat the purpose in my opinion.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Isn't this a case of "We have to destroy it in order to save it"?

Welcome to Boardman's new world.

 

[tonys96]

Exactly my point. Advertising the PPC as a sleeper-only amenity, but opening it up to all, cheapens the experience. What's next, inviting the steerage class pax to visit the sleepers for juice & coffee?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Amtrak Forum mobile app

the 30 minutes in the ppc for coach folks was announced as such. "you will be able to take advantage of bar service in the ppc from 4:45 until 5:15". in the summer, with a full train, could be a bit crowded but otherwise, if it helps to save the ppc, by increasing revenue for the car i am for it

Ok, let's take that line of logic further. Wouldn't higher fares across the board increase revenues and 'help save' things? So you would be for that, too? For sure, eliminating AGR rewards and all those free' trips would open space for paying pax and increase revenues and 'help' save' things. Are you in favor of that, too?

 

[amamba]

Exactly my point. Advertising the PPC as a sleeper-only amenity, but opening it up to all, cheapens the experience. What's next, inviting the steerage class pax to visit the sleepers for juice & coffee?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Amtrak Forum mobile app

the 30 minutes in the ppc for coach folks was announced as such. "you will be able to take advantage of bar service in the ppc from 4:45 until 5:15". in the summer, with a full train, could be a bit crowded but otherwise, if it helps to save the ppc, by increasing revenue for the car i am for it

and on my trip this week it was announced as "you have 30 minutes to check out my bar service but this is a private car so you can't stay in the car".

 

[neroden]

The PPCs are advertised as a sleeper only proposition. If they are to be an entire train proposition, full time, that advertising should be changed.

Absolutely. Amtrak has often done a really bad job at this. The advertising and marketing needs to change BEFORE the service changes. Not afterwards.
Salads are still specified on the Amtrak website, by the way....

 

[neroden]

Ok, let's take that line of logic further. Wouldn't higher fares across the board increase revenues and 'help save' things?

As devil's advocate, I'll point out that Amtrak is already doing this. It seems to actually be working. (Higher fares don't *always* increase revenues... but lately, they sure have been.)

 

[FriskyFL]

If Amtrak raises fares to the level where only the extremely well-heeled can afford to travel in sleepers, then I say let the private sector take over the sleeper service, if it can be done profitably, as the taxpayers shouldn't subsidize a goldplated service available to only the 1%.

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[neroden]

If Amtrak raises fares to the level where only the extremely well-heeled can afford to travel in sleepers, then I say let the private sector take over the sleeper service, if it can be done profitably, as the taxpayers shouldn't subsidize a goldplated service available to only the 1%.

That's total illogic.

I hear this particular illogic from a lot of people who haven't thought things through.. Seriously, think about it harder. You just said "if it can be done profitably".... so let's think about that.

Suppose the service can actually be profitable (and several people have alleged that, on the eastern trains, adding sleepers to an existing train is profitable). Then the taxpayers aren't subsidizing it. No, rather, the people riding in sleepers are subsidizing the people riding coach; or to put it another way, the people riding in sleepers are subsidizing the taxpayers -- as long as the service remains in public hands.

Why shouldn't the taxpayers run profitable services? There seems to be a group of rent-seekers who get really mad whenever the government does anything profitable. "Privatize the profits, make the taxpayer eat the losses" is the mantra. This mantra is why we have privatized monopolistic freight railroads, and taxpayer-funded passenger railroads. In countries which were saner, the entire railroad system was nationalized. (The government also ate the losses for Conrail for years, and then once it became profitable, gave it away for less than it was worth to rent-seekers. Canada did a similar thing with its railroads, subsidizing them whenever they lost money, but letting privateers walk off with the profits whenever they made money.)

This "privatize the profits, socialize the losses" mantra is bad for almost everyone, except for the lucky scammers who end up with the "privatized" half of the company.

What you're proposing is to hand all the profitable bits to Ed Ellis and leave Amtrak with an even greater deficit. Why?!? It makes no sense. So think about it harder.

 

[chakk]

When the PPCs were originially built for the Santa Fe in the mid-1950s, they and their fellow coaches had no toilets on the upper level. Early passengers complained about this situation -- especially senior citizens who found difficulty in negotiating the stairs to get to all toilets, which were on the lower level of the coaches.

So the Santa Fe had the hi-level lounge cars retrofitted with toilets on the upper level, and the coach adjacent to the lounge car would have several of its nearest seats reserved for senior citizens on each train.

Do those still exist today on the PPCs?

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

As far as I know they do not, and if they do they have been sealed off. I looked in one of my early Amtrak Car Diagram books and they were on the bar end of the car (the end that is now adjacent to the Diner) just before you go into the end vestibule.